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View Full Version : Attention : Snap Posters Please Read Asap - Legal Notice!!! (11/08/04)


Joe
11-08-2004, 11:37 PM
Folks.

I today recieved this letter from Adaptec:

By email and courier/overnight delivery

Joe Kelly
ProCooling.com
2899 XXXXXXX XXXXX
XXXXXXXXX, WI XXXXXXXX

Dear Joe:

Please be advised that I am corporate counsel for Adaptec, Inc.

It has come to our attention that one of ProCooling.com’s members, “rami” (member ID No. 7274) is currently distributing unauthorized copies of Adaptec's copyrighted software, SnapOS 4.0, by posting a link to the ftp download directly from your message board/forum. This conduct constitutes copyright infringement which may result in significant penalties and attorney's fees under the U.S. Copyright Act.

Request is hereby made that you immediately remove any and all of rami’s messages containing the link or the links which are directed to this ftp site. Please confirm actions taken in this regard no later than noon PST Tuesday, November 9, 2004. If the links are not removed as requested, we shall proceed accordingly based on your failure to take reasonable remedial action upon actual notice and knowledge of the infringement.

Please do not hesitate to call or write with any comments or questions. Thank you for your immediate attention to this matter.

Very truly yours,
Judith A. Player
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++////
Judith A. Player
Attorney
Adaptec, Inc.
691 South Milpitas Boulevard, M/S 120
Milpitas, CA 95035
Tel. No. 408 957 7804
Cell No. 510 673 1280
Fax No. 408 957 7137
Cell No. 510 673 1280
Email: judy_player@adaptec.com
Alternative email: judy@jplayerlaw.com



So some steps will need to be taken. I am against internet censorship and am also against it being MY responsibility to moderate all these threads.

Please post a reply on ideas or comments.

Joe
11-09-2004, 12:01 AM
I edited Rami's posts in question to remove specific details about the file shares in question. If anyone has questions about them I would reccomend emailing him directly.

Etacovda
11-09-2004, 02:14 AM
"Judith A. Player" - "joojust a player"

I'm sorry, but what a name for an attorney :D makes you wonder how legit the email was :p

9mmCensor
11-09-2004, 08:11 AM
To Adaptec and others:

You think you can stop filesharing?

killernoodle
11-09-2004, 08:30 AM
This is a very localized situation: how many people on the forums have snap! servers? 4-5 maybe?

I dont get it...

BillA
11-09-2004, 08:50 AM
what does "localized" have to do with anything ?
think copyright protection

killernoodle
11-09-2004, 08:56 AM
True, but there are bigger fish to fry....

Joe
11-09-2004, 08:56 AM
on the other hand why is it my issue that a link is posted? Last I checked hyperlinks werent copywrited, and their destination is not my responsibility.

If the file isnt hosted here its not my problem. thats how I see it. They are grasping at straws here. I am guessing they tried his host and couldnt get through there.

jaydee
11-09-2004, 09:26 AM
Looks like a scare tactic to me. The worst they could do is subpoena you to hand over Rami's IP addy so they could go after him directly (if they got the FTP addy they don't even need to do that). Your forum is just the way to the crime, not the crime itself. Nothing they could do IMO.

pHaestus
11-09-2004, 10:10 AM
I think you need to reread the DMCA. According to that beautiful act of US congress I believe you CAN be found liable if you refuse to pull links to information such as this.

They went after the people who sold t shirts with the deCSS code on them didn't they?

As for legal defense on internet matters, I suggest www.somethinglawful.com

After all, Internet is serious business (http://img1.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img1&image=seriousbusiness12.jpg)

#Rotor
11-09-2004, 11:16 AM
I say.. BRING IT ON.... "Biatch" oh and a deadline to meet....For crying in a bucket, What if Joe is busy with important stuff.... like LAN parties!!!!

I'm with Joe on who's responsibility it is, or more to the point, "IS NOT"... Can hardly imagine anything with teeth to fly from the allies of justice as a result of someone posting a link to a file on some far far away Bangladeshi server...., I mean how easy do they think they can have life...

Not to miss the copyright infringing act being committed, as a copyright holder of a number of Commercial applications myself, I do very well understand and sympathize with the problem. Just that I kinda sorta absolutely despise lawyers and the way they do things....

Davesworld
11-10-2004, 12:28 AM
How much of their licensing violates BSD licensing? There is no reason whatsoever for an enthusiast to pay 160 or so dollars for support they don't need in order to pay for a slightly updated version that touts improvements based on upgraded Samba code in BSD! Guardian OS is based on Linux but they advertise that. We need to send them a pack of wolves in response to the dogs they sicked on us! :mad:

rami
11-12-2004, 03:58 PM
i got my letter today, the 12th says that files have to be removed from "snap.ismybitch.com" by the 10th, the files have been removed since the first letter was sent to Joe.

the odd thing is my letter was from another lawyer/lawfirm all together



Folks.

I today recieved this letter from Adaptec:



So some steps will need to be taken. I am against internet censorship and am also against it being MY responsibility to moderate all these threads.

Please post a reply on ideas or comments.

bigben2k
11-12-2004, 04:59 PM
Hum... would it be cool to post instructions to get to the file? I mean, without an actual link...

I wonder.

BillA
11-12-2004, 05:01 PM
you are an ass Ben
would it be cool to encourage copyright violations ?

shit Ben, thiMk

pHaestus
11-12-2004, 05:20 PM
serious business indeed

jaydee
11-12-2004, 11:42 PM
I think you need to reread the DMCA. According to that beautiful act of US congress I believe you CAN be found liable if you refuse to pull links to information such as this.

They went after the people who sold t shirts with the deCSS code on them didn't they?

As for legal defense on internet matters, I suggest www.somethinglawful.com

After all, Internet is serious business (http://img1.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img1&image=seriousbusiness12.jpg)
I don't know. I think you could easily smack them around in court. Joe isn't committing the crime, the people that click the link, download the software, and then use the software are committing the crime. Joe isn't posting code to software he just allowing the pointing of direction to were the T-Shirts can be had. How the hell is that a crime? Is it a crime to point someone to Kassa or any other P2P network that has millions of copyrighted items downloaded a day?

I tell you what if Joe would have been found guilty then our justice system is pretty ****ed up. With the this DMCA logic anyone that gives means to a item that causes a crime is guilty of a crime. That's not a good thing.

I am with unregistered though on the copyright issue.

redleader
11-13-2004, 12:44 AM
Its not a matter of whos right, its a matter of who has the most money to fight it out in court.

Joe
11-14-2004, 10:50 PM
http://server.risinghost.com/suspended.page/

hehe thats the page you get if you go to snap.ismybitch.com now hehe.

0wned

rami
11-15-2004, 02:16 AM
http://server.risinghost.com/suspended.page/

hehe thats the page you get if you go to snap.ismybitch.com now hehe.

0wned

yea i setup a new mailserver temp for tonight and will have my domain running on my own server (at my own colo rack) i was hosting on a friend's server before this. atleast i didnt loose any mail i guess

JSimmons
11-15-2004, 07:41 AM
Adaptec is gonna win this if for no other reason than they have many precedent court decisions to back them up.

ProCooling could be taken down because of this if Joe doesn't take some action, so all the chesting pounding that's been happening in this thread is just hurting the site.

IMHO, nobody should be distributing copyrighted software in any form unless they have permission to do so from the copyright holder. In this case, rami evidently doesn't have such permission. If he wishes to persist in this endeavor, he should do so privately through email or IM. However, it would be wise for rami to just desist as requested because Adaptec will try to entrap him at some point if they think he's still sharing their software.

I know it's not a pretty picture, and it's a damn bitter pill to swallow, but the simple fact is that it's the best course of action.

There are better (legal) ways to get even with Adaptec if you feel the need.

jaydee
11-16-2004, 07:05 PM
Only one doing chest pounding is Adaptech.

Joe
11-16-2004, 10:21 PM
There was chest pounding?

pHaestus
11-17-2004, 12:10 AM
I know I was for sure

JSimmons
11-17-2004, 07:18 AM
If Adaptec invents a law suit and invokes the DMCA, ProCooling could be in for rough times. If I were Joe and I was running a site that truly important (like ProCooling is), I would be quick to put the matter to rest before I got caught up in corporate legal crap. Besides all that...

All a Snap server does is serve up drive space, right? If it were me, and Adaptec starting making noises like this, I would do my best to discourage people from buying SNAP servers, and come up with and publicly document a way to build your own Linux-based Snap-alike server without all the arbitrary OS-induced limitations designed to force you to upgrade from Adaptec. On top of that, you'd get RAID support and be able to install as much memory and hard drive space as you could possibly need/want/afford, and for a lot less money than buying a Snap server. And with the case-building talent I've seen here, it's not a big stretch to assume that all this stuff could be placed into a relatively small box (or at least a well-lighted one).

Forest / trees, guys - that's all I'm saying.

JSimmons
11-17-2004, 11:04 AM
By the way, I just noticed that Linksys has a network storage appliance that supports two drives via USB 2.0, and the OS is Linux. There's even articles on the web describing how to hack the box. It's only $80 at NewEgg (doesn't include the hard drives). Tell Adaptec to go screw themselves.

pHaestus
11-17-2004, 12:08 PM
It also has wireless, right? I saw this at the computer store the other day and was moderately interested. I'll check out the hacking and seriously give it a look

Joe
11-17-2004, 12:55 PM
I did play along BTW, I just wanted an answer :)

Davesworld
11-19-2004, 01:37 AM
By the way, I just noticed that Linksys has a network storage appliance that supports two drives via USB 2.0, and the OS is Linux. There's even articles on the web describing how to hack the box. It's only $80 at NewEgg (doesn't include the hard drives). Tell Adaptec to go screw themselves.

Not quite a worthy replacement. You still have to supply external usb drives to it which makes it rather cumbersome and 2 drives does not raid 5 make. At the end of the day, you'd have a snap replacement that comprises 3 devices and the total bill would be 300 or so dollars US plus. When you use usb drives, you are really just using a usb to ide bridge and a case. There are plenty of good alternatives to Adaptec that would be more like a replacement to a snap server. BTW, Snap's Guardian OS IS Linux based as well. If there was enough interest, somebody could certainly make a small Snap OS replacement based on Linux. I wish I was talented enough to do it myself. I'd still like to know if SnapOS's proprietary license violates the many Gnu or Bsd licenses with programs such as Samba and so forth. Any changes they made have to be published and at least the source code would have to be available with the purchased SnapOS4. I'm very sure that they did NOT come about Server 2003 capability by using Microsoft code but rather recent improvements to Samba. I think the questions need to be raised since it may just be that THEY are in violation as well. Imagine upgrading Samba in SnapOS and then charging a fortune for the new capability. Hmmmm..........

JSimmons
11-19-2004, 11:48 AM
Well, I never said the Linksys was an optimum solution, but it *is* an affordable alternative.

While I'm just guessing that many of the folks here are home users on some kind of budget, that point should not be so quickly discounted in favor of the "gee-whiz" factor that RAID provides.

The cost is directly proportional to the size and number of drives you attach, and it's NOT an Adaptec device (which was the whole point behind the suggestion).

As far as licensing of their own OS, I'm sure Adaptec has a sufficiently thick bullet-proof shield covering their collective asses. )

JSimmons
11-19-2004, 11:49 AM
It also has wireless, right? I saw this at the computer store the other day and was moderately interested. I'll check out the hacking and seriously give it a look

I don't think it's wireless (but I could be wrong).

re3dyb0y
11-19-2004, 03:40 PM
These are 2 linksys nas:
http://www.linksyssales.co.uk/linksys/store/isokart_viewItem.asp?idProduct=134

&

http://www.linksyssales.co.uk/linksys/store/isokart_viewItem.asp?idProduct=136

But they are damn expensive in the uk.

breadtrk
01-19-2005, 07:04 AM
I hate to admit this in public, but I know JSimmons from another internet world. He is right, for the sake of this community it is not worth playing this game. Glad to see that those involved have done the right thing. Moving underground in situations like this is always prudent.

resago
11-27-2005, 09:11 PM
heh, just give china the file, they don't give sh!t either way!

Ramjam
02-21-2006, 05:24 PM
Why don't ADAPTEC concentrate on selling hardware? The software is of little use without the hardware.

As an IT professional I agree with software licencing but if the software drives/configure/maintains hardware then what the hell, give it away? The easier it is to get support from budding enthusiasts the fewer people will go bothering the supplier, the supplier learns from a wealth of free thinking experts testing the hard and software from every conceivable angle.

ADAPTEC shame on you !!!! Make fantastic products that bear no improvement and nobody will seek to make your support software available !!!!

poma5
03-11-2006, 02:48 PM
I just recently needed a new drive for a 4100 and a 4500 snapserver and found that they are now owned by adaptec. They Suck for service.
No more free server os upgrades and only paid support after 90 days. we have 5 of their Snapservers onsite. It cost us $128.00 just to talk to Support on our 4500 Snap that was still in warranty. We just wanted to get a drive replacemnet for a drive that is still under warranty.
I work for a local County Government in Southern California and I will never buy another Snapserver again because of the Adaptec service policies.

Poma5

blue68f100
03-23-2006, 12:41 PM
Joe,

This needs to be the first thread. It is being rotated toward the bottom.

oshar
10-19-2006, 03:39 PM
Personally, I think Adaptec suck.

How can they charge for software to make their product work as they should in the first place. Surley, If it doesnt work like it says it should on the tin, then the product is "not fit for the use it was intended" and you should be able to get a refund (if you so wish).

My $0.02

re3dyb0y
10-20-2006, 12:17 PM
Personally, I think Adaptec suck.

How can they charge for software to make their product work as they should in the first place. Surley, If it doesnt work like it says it should on the tin, then the product is "not fit for the use it was intended" and you should be able to get a refund (if you so wish).

My $0.02

Well no

They are not designed to be upgradable....

And the old version weren't built to support 2003 AD, and therefore, an OS update at a cost is feasible

And they offered free os v4 to people buying it around the time of OS v4 release, as they were advertised as such