boiling your coolant in system to sterilize it

[LopeDogg]

hmm, ive run my little pump with 70+ degree water temps when i was testing a passive radiator idea with quite a big heat load waiting for equilibrium...
i was thinking...

why not disconnect waterblocks from all PC parts, but hook up all the hoses etc and seal the watercooling loop. then apply a heat source, switch on the pump, and leave the radiator fans off...
let the temprature climb close to 100C then leave it to cool down, turn the radiators fans on, whatever...

this is how they sterilize canned food, it lasts for years.
the only unknown, is will light entering the loop cause algae growth...

any ideas?

[BillA]

and all the plastic bits ?
next idea

[nikhsub1]

Umm, most pumps are only rated to a max liquid temp of 40-60C or so, some more but very few. What exactly are you trying to accomplish?

[SlaterSpeed]

Should think the thermal expansion of the coolent would cause problems aswell (assuming its a sealed loop)

slater..

[Kobuchi]

and all the plastic bits ?
Like all the plastic bits people thoughtlessly boil in their kitchens daily and for decades? None melt at 100C. The lids for home canning jars are often plastic coated with a rubber seal ring. I've boiled loads of baby stuff - all sorts of plastics - and encountered just one problem: clear silicone grows cloudy from repeated boiling.

This must be the best way to make a pure water system sterile... if the pump can take 100C and fantastic cavitation.

On the other hand, it's overkill unless one has clear tubes with fluorescent lights (grow-lights) shining through them.

[BillA]

"Like all the plastic bits people thoughtlessly boil in their kitchens daily and for decades? None melt at 100C."

google on heat distortion temperature
now identify the plastic bits in your WCing system (nothing to do with baby stuff)

in response to the contentious nature of your post I will add:
you are also a technical horse's ass
because you know words is not a good reason to post them
another for the ignore list

[joemac]

I did this once, not to sterilize the water but because I forgot to turn off my pelts (pump was also running), so yes it was an accident. :mad:

The system consisted of a water block that was solder together, two 220w pelts, a HW lab Rad, an Eheim pump, AMD board and a 18V 30amp power supply to power it all.

Anyway to cut a long story short, the block got so hot that the block fell apart, the water was boiling hot and CPU socket melted.

The causalities were the water block, Pelts and the CPU socket. Everything else kept working even the pump, Although I don’t know if the plastic impeller would have survived if the water had not leaked out when the water block fell apart.
:shrug:

[BillA]

what I've always wanted to know is if the boiling started before the hose burst ?
not willing to test though, lol

[LopeDogg]

well, 100c isnt a magical number which bacteria die at, according to howstuffworks.com, bacteria which causes food to spoil dies at about 66C.
my coolant easily went into the 70s, and the pump, hose, silicone RTV (high temp) was all perfect.

a waterblock is only gonna melt at over 200-300c or +-, way above boiling point.

the host did get all flexible, but after it cooled down it went back to normal.

the pump i use costs like $15 so i dont mind abusing it a bit.

if i would be guarenteed a growth free system, id do it.

i was also thinking of mixing alcohol/water, say 30/70
to try prevent growth of stuff. otherwise ill just be normal and use antifreeze like everyone else.

[Lothar5150]

"Like all the plastic bits people thoughtlessly boil in their kitchens daily and for decades? None melt at 100C."

google on heat distortion temperature
now identify the plastic bits in your WCing system (nothing to do with baby stuff)

in response to the contentious nature of your post I will add:
you are also a technical horse's ass
because you know words is not a good reason to post them
another for the ignore list

LOL...Amen ;)

FYI, Gents Low Density Polyethylene (LDPE) starts to deform at 71C and has a melt point of 115C. High Density Polyethylene(HDPE) starts to deform at 82C and melts at 137C. Tygon is used in surgical applications and is formulated to be sterilized at high temperature (~250F).

note I revised the melt points based on data provided in Kalpakjian;Manufacturing Engineering and Technology (1990)...oh shit I just dated myself ;)

[joemac]

what I've always wanted to know is if the boiling started before the hose burst ?
not willing to test though, lol


LOL I always wanted to know what the boiling point in a sealed water rig would be. So anyone know the boiling point of a sealed WC rig? … Something about high temperature steam that could/will results also scares me and keeps me from finding out :D

[Kobuchi]

Baby stuff turned
and all the plastic bits ?
next idea
into
google on heat distortion temperature
now identify the plastic bits in your WCing system
so if we like exploring fresh ideas the post was a success.

***

I guess boiling safe and practical for a package system designed for that. Otherwise, too many unknowns, or too much material ID and research. Who wants to pop an impeller housing just to wonder at some tiny plastic packing rings?

No harm in using pre-boiled water.

[Kobuchi]

LOL I always wanted to know what the boiling point in a sealed water rig would be. So anyone know the boiling point of a sealed WC rig?
It would vary with pressure, where it is in the loop. Fantastic cavitation.

[superart]

what if the loop didn't have any plastic bits. What if the entire loop, not counting the pump, was metal or a plastic that can sustain high temperatures, with tygon hoses.

As for the pump, according to joemac's post #7, his pump seemed to be OK at the elevated temperature. If someone was really anal about having clean water, they could get a pump that is rated for such temperatures.

[LopeDogg]

i think its definitely something to look into...
up till now i have watercooled my system with clear medical grade PVC piping. that stuff handles the high temps.

but now im going to use some silicone tubing in my system aswell, i want minimum force applied to my cpu waterblock, and dont want hard drive and pump vibrations carried down a pipe.

one thing is for sure, im definitely going to boil my water beforehand, let it cool, add the antifreeze.

i dont feel like googling it atm, but maybe its possible to get away with sterilizing the system at just above 66 degrees celcius.
pretty much everything can handle that.

[BillA]

I suspect that distilled water from a jug is much more sterile than boiling, transferring to a container, then into the system

the Laing D4 pump is used in solar hot water systems with a bronze head (and a bronze impeller ??)
about plastics; many types, many characteristics, all temp related
the right one is selected for a specific task, this includes the temp characterization

[nikhsub1]

I suspect that distilled water from a jug is much more sterile than boiling...
This is my thought too, I dont get why you need to boil the water? Seems like a waste of time.

[superart]

Even if the water is pure, the insides of the tubes and blocks and other parts are full of nasty shit you cant see. Also, the air is full of spores. These floaat into your system as you are filling it. Boiling kills most of them.

[nikhsub1]

Use a proper additive and this is a mute point, still a waste of time. I've never had any growth, and I've had systems with the same water for 2 years without a flush.

[superart]

As i said in my earlier post, this would be for the anal retentive

[torin3]

and this is a mute point,

Warning, pet peeve to follow:

Moot, not mute

This has been a pet peeve...thank you for your tolerance.

[Brians256]

<ThreadHijack>
Also, moot is one of those words that has morphed into its own antonym! Moot was a word meaning a meeting for a gathering to talk about an issue or set of issues. So, a moot point was a subject that needed discussing. Now, it is used to refer to something that should NOT be discussed. Wierd.
</ThreadHijack>

[BillA]

huh ?

adj.
1. Subject to debate; arguable: a moot question.

2. Law.
a Without legal significance, through having been previously decided or settled.
b Of no practical importance; irrelevant.

in working with lawyers, I've known both of #2 to be used, but never #1

[Cathar]

<ThreadHijack>
Also, moot is one of those words that has morphed into its own antonym! Moot was a word meaning a meeting for a gathering to talk about an issue or set of issues. So, a moot point was a subject that needed discussing. Now, it is used to refer to something that should NOT be discussed. Wierd.
</ThreadHijack>

Yes, as in "Ent-Moot", or a meeting of the Ents to discuss pertinent issues, as per LOTR.

[superart]

The cow says, "mooooooooot"

[Kobuchi]

a moot point was a subject that needed discussing. Now, it is used to refer to something that should NOT be discussed.
Think "executive order" or "royal prerogative"...for matters too consequential for discussion. An archaic concept but I guess the stern mother of moot trivial and moot debatable.

***

The algae problem seems to mainly afflict hydroponic modders - the guys with lots of immaculate clear tubing lit by grow lights. Superart pegged them. So maybe they'd go for the ultimate sterilisation boiling promises.

Better just don't glut the loop with light, IMHO.

[BillA]

The cow says, "mooooooooot"
I think the t is silent
a French thing ?

[superart]

I think the t is silent
a French thing ?

Yea, your probably right.

Kinda like Filet Mingnon.

Those crazy french...............

[mwolfman]

Thinking out loud (as usual)
If you can heat up your system to 70°C (equals the computer is turned off and the “cooler is isn’t mounted ) then why don’t go to 72°C (assuming it’s NOT a sealed loop), just do it quickly... The proteins the cells in the system will burst (don’t know the English word for kuagulera), but the plastic wont be affected that much if you are lucky due to the low heat transference in plastics...
Just remember that many spores will survive this (they are meant to survive fires)...

[LPorc]

Adding a distiller to a watercooling loop does seem a bit:

a) overkill
b) inefficient
c) expensive
d) all of the above

I think d) is a good answer. But I think some could look at it as a challenge rather than an problem.

[mwolfman]

Thinking again...
There is a much simpler way to know that there aren’t any bacteria’s or algers or funguses in the system... don’t know why I didn’t think about this before... (And I don’t think its necessary for a sealed system with no UV-lightning if the loop is inside the case but if the water is exposed to light (UV-lights or sunlight) or open air, then there might be reason for distilling the water...

I have some fishponds (about 65 m^3 litre), and I use UVc light to kill algers (Have a 25000 lph pump)... A cheap UVc lamp cost around $30-40 with holders (my cost about $350 with some magnets that even have a warning label that says "keep as far away from the body or something like that) .. It "doesn’t" affect the flow rate nor any other parts (the light is almost sealed inside due to absorption)...

Edit: With this type of rig the only additives that should be required is anti corrosion

[superart]

UVc and UVb bulbs are dangerous. I looked into it for another non-computer related project I was planning. It's not just your every day bling-bling black light. And a "reptile bulb" will not priduce enough radiation to have any effect. Even a not-so powerful UV light can cause burns and eye injury in a matter of minutes.

True, when implimented properly with all necisary safety precautions taken, it is perfectly safe. However, I wouldn't trust the average forum reader with such a task

Also, there are other non-safety considerations that need to be aken into account.

First, heat. Industrial/scientific UV bulbs of this nature produce a good amount of heat. This heat will radiate into your case and into your water.

Second, corrosion. UVb and UVc bulbs are very corrosive. One of the things they are used for is to simulate decades of sun exposure on paint in a matter of weeks, days, or even hours. You will need to replace our tubing periodicly, as well as figure out a way to shield your components from the radiation.

[mwolfman]

EDIT:same as below

[mwolfman]

I know that they are dangerous (why do you think I use them :D ), and no I don’t think the average forum reader should try to install it ether...

But you are wrong about the replacement of tubing; the light is restricted to a double walled quart glass tube, the very nature of UVc makes the UVc react within the tube...
A 6 watt increase in the system won’t mater that much (in my cases about 4-5% more heat, but with my radiator that won’t make a different to the water temperature to the CPU... Link to a 6W UVc light for £30.60 + Vat (http://www.koicarp.net/uv_sterilization/yamitsu.html)

[superart]

oh, cool. I didt know they made products like that. that would work.

Do you know how that would effect flow rate? It said the thing uses a turbulator, how much restriction does that entail?

[mwolfman]

I have no idée, it’s a bit hard (and unnecessary) to measure the flow from a 25000 lph pump that just circulate pond water…
The inside of mine (Biotron 25) has a fairly free flow design, but the water has to make two 90° turns, that aren’t that nice.
But since most of the pumps that’s are used for ponds and aquariums have a lot higher flow rate than WC systems the interior of the lights holders should be over dimension for our use...

[superart]

your using an pond pump for w/c?? hehe, cool. overkill much?

[mwolfman]

Well in a way I’m using a pond pump (or aquarium), an Hydor L30 (witch will be fitted with a dimmer tomorrow in an attempt to lower the sound)
And I don’t recommend anyone to try to use a 25000lph pump for the w/c-system (2" tubes and 500 Watt heat load)...

I did have an idée when I started with w/c, if I should use my unused wheel (deep hole in the ground with water) to get an system to my server just to lower the temps with out an radiator… however I need the heat inside as we are going towards the winter…

[Monnie Rock]

Hello Everyone,


Has anyone used a product called "Cidex" made by Johnson & Johnson? It is basically Glutaraldehyde or look Here (http://www.sterrad.com/products_&_services/cidex/) When I worked in Surgery, the technicians soaked fragile instruments I owned in Cidex.

How do you think this would work in a w/c system ?

Thanks
Monnie

[Brians256]

Interesting, but does it degrade and produce any precipitates? It says it works well for fragile instruments, but any bacteriacide is aggressive against *something*. How well does it leave copper alone? Long-term use at 80F may cause it to become less effective over time. How long? Etc...

Need more info.