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View Full Version : New Snap 4100 Owner-Upgrade Q's


Harbinger
06-23-2005, 08:43 PM
Hello to all!

I snagged an older M4100 from work as they were upgrading to one of the new, 2 TB models. It had a dead drive. The four drives in it were 80 GB IBM "DeathStars", and I put in a 120 GB Western Digital I had lying around and rebuilt the RAID. It now seems to work well.

Now for the questions...

1) I want to eventually replace all four drives with newer, bigger ones. Has anyone successfully broken the 137 GB limit?

2) There is one 128MB memory DIMM in the unit. Would upping the memory help its performance? What are the specs of the memory I could use?

3) Are there any special hardware "tricks" needed when upgrading drives and memory?

4) The unit is running SnapOS 3.x. I was told by the network admin at work that Quantum used to have certain OS upgrade files available to freely download. One of them was some Java file, a second was some file that allowed HTTPS: (but not HTTP: at the same time, this program was a "switch" I think), and there were some OS 3.x upgraders available. When the greedy SOBs at Adaptec bought the line, they took that software OFF-line, and now want to charge a "tech support per-incident fee" to get access. This seriously sucks. In fact, the net admin said that, if he'd known they changed their policy on what were freely-available files, he'd have bought a different manufacturer's product (!).

Does anyone know of a software repository where these formerly-free software(s) may still be downloaded?

I know these are a lot of questions, but net searches don't turn up much info on these boxes. I found this forum through a Google search, and the posters on here seem to know their stuff.

Best regards from a board n00b,
Harbinger

aznwizkid
06-26-2005, 12:57 AM
Hey Harbinger,

I am also starting to work on a 4100 from reading the tons of post in
http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1929
it seems as if most people can't get more then 137gb (ie they put in a 160gb and get 137gb only).

2nd, more ram only seems to help if you need to have more user access it at once (this is what i got from the forums) as for the dimms I not quite sure, I have some old ram around the house that I am going to try once my server gets here, and I will let you know if that works, my quess would be something in the pc100 sd-ram bin.

3rd, have not seen anyone post "tricks" to doing any of the upgraes such as ram and the 120 or 160gb drives.

4th, in the forum i linked above, around pages 20+ somewhere there is a link to a ftp site that one of the members runs that should have all the software you need.

Hopes this helps.

Davesworld
07-02-2005, 05:58 PM
Hey Harbinger,

I am also starting to work on a 4100 from reading the tons of post in
http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1929
it seems as if most people can't get more then 137gb (ie they put in a 160gb and get 137gb only).

2nd, more ram only seems to help if you need to have more user access it at once (this is what i got from the forums) as for the dimms I not quite sure, I have some old ram around the house that I am going to try once my server gets here, and I will let you know if that works, my quess would be something in the pc100 sd-ram bin.

3rd, have not seen anyone post "tricks" to doing any of the upgraes such as ram and the 120 or 160gb drives.

4th, in the forum i linked above, around pages 20+ somewhere there is a link to a ftp site that one of the members runs that should have all the software you need.

Hopes this helps.

You can definitely put a 256b stick of ram but you need a low profile one. I have put various sticks in that I had laying around and they all worked. A standard 256mb stick is too tall for the cover, mine was standard but I had the cover off. As far as the 137GB limit, snap sells a replacement 160GB drive and sled and it comes with instructions. The only thing I could dig off the web is that you use the "reinit nocore" command in the debug section of the web gui. It looks as if everyone here just uses "reinit" with no other option. It also looks as though you have to upgrade to to an earlier version of os4 to get the bios update. The promise controllers are definitely capable of lba48 and so is os4.

Harbinger
07-10-2005, 05:38 PM
Thanks for the great info!

Davesworld
07-12-2005, 04:28 AM
Well, I just tried a Seagate 160gb and I cannot get the last 800 or so sectors to be seen, Just 134+ GB. It's funny that you can get Lba48 on the 4000 as well as the smaller ones. I was thinking of building myself a 2U server with several hot swap drives and use one of my boards plus a good raid controller or two. I figured that I might as well go for over 2TB as a goal. Meanwhile, those Dell 725n and 745n's are looking good as far as a 1u four drive system. There are plenty of good non windows NAS os'es out for the taking.

Harbinger
07-17-2005, 08:35 PM
:shrug: I borrowed a 512MB DIMM (PC100/133) and tried it in my 4100. No go. The server will work with the memory installed but only sees the first 256MB.

Usually this means that another RAS/CAS line pair needs to be run from the memory controller chip(s) if they're available to select the next bank of memory. If those aren't available, well...

I used to hardware hack a lot more than I do now. Maybe in a month or so I'll have time to tear the server down and do some wire tracing (or at least discover the limit of the controller chip(s). :shrug:

aznwizkid
07-20-2005, 06:39 PM
So I got my 4100, and some 200gb drives for 40 a pop, not a bad deal, but still no joy, can't get above the 137gb limitation, even with the newest snap os and bios. I have recently acquired a snap 4000, which is more a 2U unit but totally different hardware from the 4100, hope that lets me use all the space on my 200gb hdds.

Davesworld
07-23-2005, 01:24 PM
So I got my 4100, and some 200gb drives for 40 a pop, not a bad deal, but still no joy, can't get above the 137gb limitation, even with the newest snap os and bios. I have recently acquired a snap 4000, which is more a 2U unit but totally different hardware from the 4100, hope that lets me use all the space on my 200gb hdds.

It will, they didn't put the limitation in the 4000. I suspect the limitation in the 4100 is for marketing reasons so you would HAVE to buy a 4200 and so forth but I'm only speculating on this, I really don't know for sure.

Harbinger
07-26-2005, 06:59 PM
So I got my 4100, and some 200gb drives for 40 a pop, not a bad deal, but still no joy, can't get above the 137gb limitation, even with the newest snap os and bios. I have recently acquired a snap 4000, which is more a 2U unit but totally different hardware from the 4100, hope that lets me use all the space on my 200gb hdds.

In an earlier post in this thread, it was written:

"The only thing I could dig off the web is that you use the "reinit nocore" command in the debug section of the web gui. It looks as if everyone here just uses "reinit" with no other option."

So did you try this? In other posts (I believe it was the monster "Hack a snap" thread) that larger drives WILL work in the 4100. Using the above command will, I believe, wipe your RAID clean and you'll lose your existing data but should make the drives work.

aznwizkid
07-26-2005, 08:51 PM
I have not tried it, but if you look at
http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=11953
A guy tried it with his 4100 and no go. Thanks though, my 4000 should arrive tomorrow, hope it all goes well, I will keep update as soon as I know.

aznwizkid
07-27-2005, 09:39 PM
Life is good, especially when everything works, I must say this forum has been invaluable to make these upgrades happen, got 4x200gb in my 4000 and all is well.

Harbinger
07-28-2005, 09:29 AM
I have not tried it, but if you look at
http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=11953
A guy tried it with his 4100 and no go. Thanks though, my 4000 should arrive tomorrow, hope it all goes well, I will keep update as soon as I know.


Well, if you didn't try it I would heartily encourage you to do so before giving up. I'd read that post, but have also read others that lead me to believe that it's possible. I'd do it myself but I don't have/can't afford the drives yet. Since you do, you can enlighten us by your experience... :D

aznwizkid
07-28-2005, 10:54 AM
Harbinger

I will try and see what I can do with the 4100, this is what I have done so far.
1) update to snap os V4.0.855
2) added in unformated drive (200gb) (side note, if you have a raid that fails in the 4100 it can be seen by the 4000, also drives made in the 4100 can be used in a 4000)
3) all of the drives were seen and formatted as 137gb
4) tried the regular "config device "10000" /reinit" which didn't work => still 137gb

For all those interested the 4000 followed the exact same steps, except that step 4 actually worked.

I have another 250gb sitting around so I will slap that into the 4100 and see if the /reinit nocore command works out, will keep you posted.

Harbinger
07-28-2005, 01:30 PM
Harbinger

I will try and see what I can do with the 4100, this is what I have done so far.
1) update to snap os V4.0.855
2) added in unformated drive (200gb) (side note, if you have a raid that fails in the 4100 it can be seen by the 4000, also drives made in the 4100 can be used in a 4000)
3) all of the drives were seen and formatted as 137gb
4) tried the regular "config device "10000" /reinit" which didn't work => still 137gb

For all those interested the 4000 followed the exact same steps, except that step 4 actually worked.

I have another 250gb sitting around so I will slap that into the 4100 and see if the /reinit nocore command works out, will keep you posted.


I also remember that there's a command switch in the debug screen (type http://<servername>/config/debug from your browser) that has to do with turning on LBA48. I saw it when I was scrolling through the help. I believe you can type ? to list the commands, there should be something on the debug page that tells how to list the available commands. Just an FYI...it might make the difference.

aznwizkid
07-28-2005, 06:22 PM
I saw that too, been playing with it for a while, and still nothing, things I have tried, as an addendum to before

1) /reinit /nocore
2) LBA48 commands

Okay so this is what I have gathered from all this, the LBA48 command enables it in the OS, which we all knew worked in OS 4 anyways. I am thinking that there is a problem with the controller and with the bios of the hardware not the snap os version.

Do we have someone with a confirmed working 4100 with drives greater then 120gb with full access to their space? I have been searching the forums and all I have seen is 120gb drives in them.

gotaquestion
07-28-2005, 06:55 PM
Hey aznwizkid, I have a Snap 4000, with four hard drives, software 4.0.854, Hardware 2.2.1, Bios 2.4.437. I want to upgrade to the 200GB drives. Which type and model hard drives are you using. Thanks.

Harbinger

I will try and see what I can do with the 4100, this is what I have done so far.
1) update to snap os V4.0.855
2) added in unformated drive (200gb) (side note, if you have a raid that fails in the 4100 it can be seen by the 4000, also drives made in the 4100 can be used in a 4000)
3) all of the drives were seen and formatted as 137gb
4) tried the regular "config device "10000" /reinit" which didn't work => still 137gb

For all those interested the 4000 followed the exact same steps, except that step 4 actually worked.

I have another 250gb sitting around so I will slap that into the 4100 and see if the /reinit nocore command works out, will keep you posted.

aznwizkid
07-28-2005, 09:10 PM
Hey gotaquestion I pmed you, but just for information for all those out there, I used 200gb western digital wd2000bb, which i believe is an EIDE drive, which people have said are not too good in 4000, but I haven't had any problem. Good luck with your upgrades.

Davesworld
07-29-2005, 07:22 PM
Lba48 is known to work on the 4000 but not the 4100. I tried the /reinit /nocore but it did absolutely nothing in the 4100. I have never seen an example of lba48 working on the 4100 in countless hours of searching. I think it was deliberately locked out in anticipation of faster and more expensive nas devices that use Guardian OS (linux based) and support iscsi in addition to the usual nas methods. I know for a fact that the very promise controller chips used in the 4100 could surely support lba48 and snapos 4.x will as well, they had to have locked it out. If it at least had a com port, you could use a null modem cable (basically a computer to computer serial cable female/female) and have access to the bios itself and look around a bit.