New User New Machine Probably Old Questions

[pettefar]

I just bought a Snap Server 2200 on eBay. It came with 2x80GB and I plan to upgrade it to a 2x500GB mirror. I have yet to buy the drives and I was hoping for a bit of guidance from you experts.

Has anyone else done this and if so can they recommend or slag off any particular drives please?

I have the following versions:-

Model Software Hardware Server # BIOS
2000 series 3.4.790 (UK) 2.0.4 814023 3.4.758

Will I need to upgrade anything before putting my drives in? If so, where does one go to? I've visited the Snap website and it seems to be almost closed.

Has anyone played around with the web server feature?

Is it possible to ssh or telnet into the box or is it only configureable via the web interface?

I bought the box for use with Slim Devices SlimServer music server software. I will NFS mount it on my Solaris Ultra-10 and also access it from various Macs and PCs around the house. I want to keep it on permanently and so wanted a low-power machine. With the current 80GB drives, it uses 33 Watts as opposed to my homemade RAID5 which uses 67 Watts.

Cheers!
Nick

[re3dyb0y]

Right, that spec is very similar to mine, but i think your h/w version is newer


You should find that the 500GB hard drives will be fine. You've probably heard of LBA-48 bit, ie drives >137GB, and with some of the older units, they do not have capabilities on the controllers for this. But the newer units do

Telnet and ssh i dont think so, the web interface is the main way, howerver, there is a debug console avaliable on http://snapserver/config/debug

You are able to use a lot fo commands in that, and can do most things, but not all of the things

Web server, haven't really played around with, it is hidden somewhere on the os partition, which is hidden, and therefore difficult to access.

IF you were able to you would be able to add on to the web interface

But if you had it on a network, and portforwarded to port 80 (think thats http), you could access the web admin panel remotely!


If you wanted a box with telnet/ssh, the Linksys NSLU2 is a very good item, which i have 2 of, and can be obtained from ebay for slightly less than new, ~ £50. Only thing is usb hard drives/hard drives in usb caddies would be needed!!

You can also put applications on the device, to make it a lot more adaptable than the snap server

If you need/want snap os updates, please feel free to email or pm me and i will help you out.

Going to 3.4.805 or newer would probably be a help to yourself

Drive wise - DO NOT GET ATA-133 DRIVES

They sometimes work, but more often than not they dont

You seem to be 'IT Savvy', so you probably know that WD and Seagate are the better HD manufacturers. David has had great results with Seagate drives, and also some other people have used Hitachi ones to good effect.

I have a WD2500JB in mine, but i think that the unit doesn't really like it.


And of cause IDE drives!

Cheers

Sam

[pettefar]

Hi!

Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my message and plea for help/guidance. I really appreciate it.

The 500GB drive class is a bit new so I was hoping some brave soul would have been a pioneer and given me/us some feedback. I may just chicken out though and get (much cheaper) 400GB drives - I especially like the Samsung silent drives (I have a couple in a Sun Blade).

Reading all the posts I came away with the impression that the OS needs to be upgraded to 3.4.805 in order to be able to work with drives greather than 137GB - the old 48-bit IDE mod. Is that true?

Thanks for the debug console tip, I'll have a play with that tonight.

I'll visit PayPal on my way out.

Many thanks and cheers!

Nick

[blue68f100]

Others have talked about 500 gig drives. But no report of some one actually doing it. Your OS does need to be upgraded to 3.4.805 or greater to have LBA48bit support.

The OS is stored on the HD so you will need to copy the boot tracks from your original dirves to the new ones. Or kick it into raid 1 and fail one drive trick.

The snaps do not like EIDE drives, by Maxtor and WD. I use Seagates (5yr warranty) or Hitachi drives. Where Sam uses WD. The Samsung are quite, but they are the slowest out there.

As far as telenet. To the best of my knowledge it is turned off.

These units were designed to be web servers so setup should be relative easy. Most users use them for external data storage.

Do you need a admin manual, check out the wiki section. I think there is a link to retrive them, if not notify me and I will send you a starter pack.

If you need more control and full access to everything check out the FreeNAS post on the other section. It looking good.

[pettefar]

Right, but how would you get FreeNAS on there and would it work with the hardware? I wonder if installing it onto a hard drive on another machine and then moving the hard drive onto the Snap Server would work... One could set up the network side of things but would it not complain that everything else has changed? I'm clutching at straws here - surely you need at least a serial port to connect a terminal to for FreeNAS?

I don't want to use a "normal" PC for FreeNAS as my main goal is to save electrical power and the Snap Server isn't too hungry although I reckon a modern power-conscious design could be a bit leaner.

I am able to download the Snap documentation I need, thanks, just wondering abut the OS upgrade availability.

It would be even better, for power saving, if just one drive of the mirror could be active and the other drive powered up just for data resynchronisations. A typical drive costs about 10 Watts and decent CMOS hardware not much more (but should be less). The whole kit could run at 20 Watts in theory apart from the synchronisation time.

When I get the Snap Server up and running, I'm thinking of connecting it through a mains timer to switch it off when not needed - ie in the wee hours.

[pettefar]

I wonder if one could attach a CDROM to boot FreeNAS from, instead of one of the hard drives - but then you'd still need user i/o...

[re3dyb0y]

I have a SFF i use for a PC

Other than that, there are Mini-ITX boxes, but they are expensive

I wouldn't reccommend doing that with the unit, tit would mean a long start up due to having to check the whole hard drives out for problems, and it could cause a lot more problems

However, i don think i've seen anything to turn it off per schedule, as they are designed to be on 24/7


Nick - Will PM you back when i get back on my other pc later tonight


CRAP! - David, i didn't realise this about the drives i've got. That could be part of its problem.. Although they are ATA100, they are EIDE.... Hmm, i wonder if i should get hold of a 250GB Seagate or larger, and see if i can pass on/sell on this IDE WD2500JB..... However, re ATA133, the maxtors are ATA133.. And they were fine

[jontz]

CRAP! - David, i didn't realise this about the drives i've got. That could be part of its problem.. Although they are ATA100, they are EIDE.... Hmm, i wonder if i should get hold of a 250GB Seagate or larger, and see if i can pass on/sell on this IDE WD2500JB..... However, re ATA133, the maxtors are ATA133.. And they were fine

I have WD 1600JB's in my 4100, no problems. The 4100 has a different controller though...

[blue68f100]

It's always the little things that get you.

WD may have a utility to turn it off. I know hitachi got a utility for setting actual drive size, ATA 1-6, APM, Acustics ....

The FreeNAS can be a live CD setup, It pretty easy to do. Just need to save the config file, then replace the current on the cd. The only problem is that you are locked to that file.

The snaps with a std boot loader may work, the problem would be easier if you know which NIC driver to use. Hard code the IP and Admin PW. The FreeNAS is also working on using different size drives, so we may down the line be able to install the OS on the disk being used for raid.

[jontz]

Intertesting thoughts about installing FreeNAS onto a snap server. I do understand the desire to save power, but if you do the math we aren't talking about a lot of power or money. At $0.06/Killowatt hour, a snap server drawing 50 watts of power for one month (30 days)would only be $2.16 or 36 Killowatt hours. You could get yourself an older celeron based PC and underclock it to about 233 MHz or so. Without a CD-ROM, sound card, excess RAM, etc in it. It should be about as efficient as a snap server at that point. In fact, if you have a larger mid-tower case you could probably cool the whole thing with just the power supply fan if you had a large passive heatsink on the underclocked processor and heatsinks on the hard drives. Not having extra fans would lower power consumption as well. Obviously these are American rates, I have no idea how much electricity costs accross the pond. Just some thoughts though.

I am curious from a technical standpoint about getting another OS up and going on a snap, however I wonder if the designers at snap/quantum/adaptec have mangled the hardware in such a way as to prevent such an OS switch.

[pettefar]

I might give the FreeNAS a serious go if I can't get an OS upgrade.
Is it stable enough for serious use? I saw some people reporting problems when I searched the web for it. Does it also support big drives?

If it ran DHCP then it wouldn't be a problem getting in contact with it - a bit like SnapOS does. I'll have read the documentation!

[jontz]

It is still pretty primative at this point. Blue has had more experience with it than anyone, but it seems to me that you wouldn't want to use it for anything mission critical at this point. I think that once it gets up to about version 1.0 it should be stable enough for everyday use.

[re3dyb0y]

Intertesting thoughts about installing FreeNAS onto a snap server. I do understand the desire to save power, but if you do the math we aren't talking about a lot of power or money. At $0.06/Killowatt hour, a snap server drawing 50 watts of power for one month (30 days)would only be $2.16 or 36 Killowatt hours. You could get yourself an older celeron based PC and underclock it to about 233 MHz or so. Without a CD-ROM, sound card, excess RAM, etc in it. It should be about as efficient as a snap server at that point. In fact, if you have a larger mid-tower case you could probably cool the whole thing with just the power supply fan if you had a large passive heatsink on the underclocked processor and heatsinks on the hard drives. Not having extra fans would lower power consumption as well. Obviously these are American rates, I have no idea how much electricity costs accross the pond. Just some thoughts though.

I am curious from a technical standpoint about getting another OS up and going on a snap, however I wonder if the designers at snap/quantum/adaptec have mangled the hardware in such a way as to prevent such an OS switch.

Well, if the fuel comparison is anything to go by, it will be a lot

But i do know what Nick means, as here in the UK there has been 2 recent fairly large price hikes on electricity, and my parents have changed supplier to help reduce costs, and are a bit more strict with making sure things are turned off when not in use



I reckon on the 4*** it may be possible, as somone has used alow profile PCI card to get a screen working, and you can see it post and such, just when the os loads it goes blank

If we could, it'd be amazing!

[re3dyb0y]

Hopefully i will be able to get an install on my 233 and have a play

I've also got NASLite Server Suite to try

If it will use DHCP from a router, i would use my netgear to assign it a static that would be assigned to it everytime it requested an ip

[blue68f100]

FreeNAS is still in beta, It will proably be several months before it will be solid. It is a usable NAS. I'm more interested in the Raid 5 via software, and hardware.

Currently DHCP is not supported, need to assign NIC card first, reboots, then can set IP. From there on you can use the web interface. setup takes about 5 min.

The FreeNAS allows drive to spin down after a set time, power managment, and acustics too. Support for storage > 2 tb, iSCSI, NTSF, FAT32, Apple 3.0, down load the 0.65 version the earlier verion have some major problems.

It' can be install on a single drive just like the 1X00's

[re3dyb0y]

It's always the little things that get you.

WD may have a utility to turn it off. I know hitachi got a utility for setting actual drive size, ATA 1-6, APM, Acustics ....




Any ideas where to look?

Cant see ought on the WD site, but have sent them a support email!

[blue68f100]

Try this site Major Geeks (http://www.majorgeeks.com/downloads8.html), Go th there drive utility section and look. They have some WD and other too. It where I found the utilities for the Hitachi. They have a ISO image set with all mfg and shareware utilities called "ubcd34-full".

[jontz]

I don't believe WD makes a utility to turn it off. All I have ever seen from them are their data lifeguard tools and their low level format utility, as well as a diagnostic utility to find drive errors and such. I have been using WD drives for quite a while and haven't seen an interface config option on them.

[pettefar]

Has anyone replaced their 2200 fan (60mm 12V) with a quieter one?

Has anyone mounted their 2200 in a different ie more compact box?

Nick

[re3dyb0y]

Yes david has replaced his fan

I had bought a replacement, but not fitted, as it wouldnt go into the space as it was too deep, but could be fitted to the outside


Probably wouldn't really reccommend fitting in a smaller box, if the fan fails in these they can fry!

I got one from Overclockers, can check what, if you can find one in the UK, will you let me know what and where as i want to replace mine

The One from overclockers has a slightly higher CFM for less dB




The unit has been fine today... Tis strange, gonna check the hard drive tho for bad blocks!

[re3dyb0y]

Ok its a Vantec SF6025L
60x60x25mm

12CFM
20dBA

You need one that is x20mm, and i haven't seen one

[blue68f100]

The original fans are 60x60x15, anything else is to large. The original fan is ABF0612LB 3200rpm, 0.1amp, 24dba. Believe it made by delta. I found the fan at Jameco or Mouser. If you got a Fry's near you, they have one that will fit. The key to longivity of the hd is keeping them cool. I went with a 17cfm fan, which was a little louder, I think, but I changed HD at the same time.

[pettefar]

Yes, I saw that. Measured the existing fan (sure is loud for 24db) and searched around. There is an ideal replacement made by www.Papst.de, the 612FL that is very quiet - 16db. This is sold for about 6 quid or 11 euros. I'm going to order one and I'll tell you what it's like.

Does anyone know what the big dual-row of pins is for on the board?

Nick

[blue68f100]

Be carefull on reducing cfm, under heavy use they do heat up. I had one user found a fan with a temp control module. The only problem it was a high speed fan 4200rpm and it was extremely noise. The user pulled it for noise after 3 days. It would be nice to have a speed control, may look into that. I have a 92 & 120mm fans with speed controls.

The fan I installed was louder than the original. I keep for getting to order the original fan. It was quite. I'm a little gun shy after frying my last unit. So I plan on replacing the fans every 2-3 yrs.

As for a Great Utility CD try this Ultimate Boot CD (http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/) It's loaded with all kind of disk utilities.

[jontz]

I solved the noise problem with my 4100 pretty easily. I put it in the basement with the rest of my network equipment. I haven't heard a peep out of it since :) Seriously, it isn't worth sacrificing the whole snap server just to make it a little quieter. If it is too loud, find a home for it where it isn't sitting beside the computer you are using.

[blue68f100]

My 2000 was so quite I couldn't hear it running. That why I'm putting up with a little noise on my 2200.

[re3dyb0y]

I solved the noise problem with my 4100 pretty easily. I put it in the basement with the rest of my network equipment. I haven't heard a peep out of it since :) Seriously, it isn't worth sacrificing the whole snap server just to make it a little quieter. If it is too loud, find a home for it where it isn't sitting beside the computer you are using.

Basements aren't that common in the uk, especiaslly out of built up areas

Spare rooms work if you have one, or attics, but ours being un used means its just the yellow insulation stuff



Suppose having you own house really helps

[pettefar]

I don't believe that replacing the old worn noisy fan with a new modern quieter fan is going to reduce my Snap Server to a heap of smouldering embers. However, having just set fire to my new KitchenAid liquidiser trying to mash potatoes, I will proceed with due caution.

Nick

[re3dyb0y]

Lol

As long as it has a reasonable CFM you are fine

As the fans in the 220 draw the air up from the base and exhaust through the back

[blue68f100]

Basements generally run cool. So lower CFM shouldn't hurt it. And the newer drives run cooler than the original ones.

My computer room/office runs warm due to all of the equipment. And it is the farthest room from the AC, so it doesn't cool down as summer moves in.

[pettefar]

AC?
Basement?

[re3dyb0y]

Basement - Cellar....


AC is probably air conditioning

[jontz]

LOL...gotta love being seperated by a common language. I didn't think about basements not being real common in the UK. I don't think that replacing your fan with a newer one will kill your snap, I was just cautioning against sacrificing CFM for lower noise levels. I have found several fans in the 24-27dba range, but nothing 20 or less that moved enough air to be satisfactory. Just make sure it moves enough air, which ever one you go with.

[pettefar]

I wasn't indicating that I misunderstood the terms, just that I did not posess either.

I have a space in the cupboard-under-the-stairs which it will fit in nicely as it will be replacing a PC case with an Intel 5-drive SCSI cage which I connect to my Ultra-10 and run software RAID on. Slow and noisy, expensive and small, hot and hungry. I want a lean Snap Server with a two-disk mirror, quiet, low-power and large.

I had a quick play with the www feature. See the pic.

[re3dyb0y]

Thats rather cool, dont think any one else has mentioned doing this!

[pettefar]

I was shocked/horrified/interested to see that the Snap Server PSU unit (brick on a wire) uses 12.7 Watts when the Snap Server is turned off! I thought that these modern auto-sensing switchmode PSUs didn't use anything without a load. If you unplug it from the Snap Server is still uses 7.6 Watts.

Nick - going green

[re3dyb0y]

Lol, Yeah

When im not using mine i turn it off and unplug it from the mains!

How did you find out how much power it was using?

[pettefar]

I bought a power meter from MachineMart, made by Brennenstuhl. (They also make good and cheap remote control mains switches.) Basically a small box with a socket one side and a plug on the other, an LCD display and some buttons. I've been using it to see how much things take/cost. My Sun server uses about 120 Watts with four internal drives and my external home-made RAID5 SCSI box 67 Watts.

[jontz]

I'm not familiar with the power supplies for the 2000 series, but any power supply that has a transformer in it will use power whenever it is plugged in since the primary is a closed circuit. So all those little wall warts are using power even when you aren't using them...

[pettefar]

Well it's a "switch-mode" PSU which means it rectifies the incoming mains to create about 400V DC and then uses big transistors to turn it back into AC but at a very much higher frequency. A transformer is then used to get the desired output Voltage ie 12V and the normal rectifying, smoothing and regulating takes place. The transformer and later components can be very small as they are much more efficient at higher frequencies. You can design these beasts to draw minimal current with no load but I guess this one isn't. PCs use the same types of PSU. I will see if I can find an alternate 12V PSU for the Snap Server.

Nick

[blue68f100]

Why don't you write a script that turns it on when you start your computer, and another one to tune it off when you shut down in the evening. You must go through the shutdown process, otherwise it will do a complete system check every time you start it up.

[re3dyb0y]

I dont know how you would be able to write a script to get it to boot up

Cause i dont think it supports WOL

[blue68f100]

Thinking more about it, We could shut down, but not startup. Holding the power button remotely will require some extra hardware. Shut down is possiable with the units supporting ups, remote shutdown.

[pettefar]

The main idea of me buying the Snap Server (the 500GB disks are on their way) is to reduce the cost of keeping my system on 24/7. It also increases my storage space. I will be replacing seven drives with two (my RAID5 plus a 120GB mirror) which will save about 50 Watts of power. I won't switch it off unless I need to do some maintenance or I go away for more than a day.

Nick

[jontz]

Why don't you write a script that turns it on when you start your computer, and another one to tune it off when you shut down in the evening. You must go through the shutdown process, otherwise it will do a complete system check every time you start it up.

That would shut the snap down, but wouldn't cure the 12 watt loss that Nick is seeing even when the unit is off but still plugged in. I would LOVE to see the script that pulls the cord out of the wall after a safe shutdown :)

[jontz]

Well it's a "switch-mode" PSU which means it rectifies the incoming mains to create about 400V DC and then uses big transistors to turn it back into AC but at a very much higher frequency. A transformer is then used to get the desired output Voltage ie 12V and the normal rectifying, smoothing and regulating takes place. The transformer and later components can be very small as they are much more efficient at higher frequencies. You can design these beasts to draw minimal current with no load but I guess this one isn't. PCs use the same types of PSU. I will see if I can find an alternate 12V PSU for the Snap Server.

Thanks for the info Nick, knowledge is always appreciated. I looked at your post earlier and you said that it draws 12.7 watts when it is connected to the snap and 7.something watts when the snap is not connected. What is drawing current in the snap when the unit is off? Does the NIC card stay active when the unit is off? I can't imagine that the BIOS draws 5W to keep the clock running. Just curiousity...

[re3dyb0y]

Well they have the CMOS battery's


NIC Isn't active, the NIC comes active sometime during boot up

[jontz]

True, they do have a CMOS battery, but when they are plugged into the wall they usually pull power from the PS instead of the battery. The batt is only in case of AC fail. Must not be the NIC card though, since you said it is off until mid-boot. I guess it isn't a big deal, I was just curious what was alive in ticking in there while it was off.

[pettefar]

Hi, just come back from a German holiday.

No idea what's drawing the current. I'll have a little investigation. I might also try a different 12V PSU to try and eliminate that constant 7W drain.

I have unfortunately ordered S-ATA drives for my Snap Server instead of P-ATA (normal IDE)! Is there an adapter available thaty I can use if I can't persuade the company (Dabs.com) to take them back? I can't imagine how I made the mistake and therefore blame their website...

Nick - Doh!

[blue68f100]

There are adapters but they may be to big to fit into the inclosure.
Your best bet is to exchange them.

[re3dyb0y]

Dabs can be a buggar

You can get them from ebay and alike, but like david said they are big, and probably wont fit


How long since you bought the drives, cause the first 30 days they have to take them back

The other option is sell on ebay, you will probably make a loss, and buy IDE ones....

What make and size are they?

[pettefar]

I think they (Dabs.com) are going to take them back. They arrived last week while I was away in Germany. 500GB. I hate not havcing a telephone number to call and harangue them! I'm so retro... Anyway, I will hopefully get the correct ones soon!!

Nick