Fileserver cases that are good for watercooling?

[stevecs]

Probably by the end of the year I will be looking to build up a new computer case for a file server with zero fans (silent server). Problem is that I am having a hard time to find some good quality cases that can handle 24-32 hot-swap drives AND are designed to easily handle a watercooled solution (powersupplies, cpu, ?drives?). I have seen cases for small desktop systems but that's no-where near what I am looking for. (ideally a 4 or 5U chassis, don't mind having the radiator/pump/et al. outside the case, probably preferr it actually).

Has anyone come across any server cases that work well?

[TerraMex]

actually , some. but they're all big assed cube server cases.
heavy, bulky.

you can always go with something stylish:
http://www.hardwareforums.com/content-view/lian-li-modular-cube-case-1-12167/
(also see http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=114188&highlight=Lian+Cube )
Not cheap thou. But with the Hdd adds (3 Hdd's per two 5 1/4" 's ), lots of room.
Also (not sure) there's an adaptor plate for the back to use two PSU's.

[stevecs]

Yeah, saw that case but it only has room for 24 drives, no dvd or internal space for a boot drive. It's more like the old fashioned deskside servers, I was looking more for a current type 4/5/6U (rackmount) type system (ie, high density).

The end goal is to replace my current file server set up which is a shuttle XPC which has 4 promise TX8 towers attached to it (scsi) which gives me about 7.5TB. I'm nearly running out of space and the noise of all those fans is a PITA. Was hoping to get something to give me close to 20TB (16TB min as I never go less than 2x current size when I re-build). That would need about 32 750GB drives (-2 for raid5/hot spare). Plus need to have a boot drive and dvd writer (card reader would be good as well but not really important).

Granted, I am probably out of the normal 'nitch' here for WC/noiseless systems which is why I am looking for any good suggestions.

[HammerSandwich]

Browse around Servercase.com (http://www.servercase.com/).

[stevecs]

Thanks, will do, site looks like it has a lot of choices. Now just need to find a large enough passive radiator. ;)

[Edge]

>> I will be looking to build up a new computer case for a file server with zero fans (silent server). <<

So how will you cool the 24-32 drives?

[stevecs]

good question, I've been thinking about that. The amount of heat can't be TOO high (average for a 750gb drive is 13 watts of power, so even assuming 0% efficiency it's going to be 13*32=416watts of heat max (ok, this won't ever happen but it's the absolute worse case).

I was thinking perhaps to use some type of heat-pipe around the drives to bleed the heat to a bus bar or something in the case that would then be cooled by the same water loop that's cooling everything else.

Since the drives are all hot-swap that is what is making it interesting due to the nearly zero tolerance around the drives. I _may_ be able to also fit a heat shield around the drives (aluminum place on top/bottom of drive) just to get something to equalize the temp and to help pull it to the side of each of the bays where I can get at them better.

Haven't really found a silver bullet yet. :( You have any ideas?

[Edge]

>>You have any ideas?

The 3.5" drives have me stumped and cooling them is one thing that forces me to use fans. I was hoping to figure something out once 2.5" drives come down in price, but by then I'll probably have to deal with FB-DIMMS (@15watts apiece - the buffer chip is a scorcher).

I'd love to go rack mount, but I have yet to figure out how to keep the noise down.

[stevecs]

>
The 3.5" drives have me stumped and cooling them is one thing that forces me to use fans. I was hoping to figure something out once 2.5" drives come down in price, but by then I'll probably have to deal with FB-DIMMS (@15watts apiece - the buffer chip is a scorcher).

I'd love to go rack mount, but I have yet to figure out how to keep the noise down.

I'm not sold 100% on rack mount it's just the only solution I've found so far that allows me to have 32 drives in a single chassis with a reasonable footprint. If I _absolutely have to_ I can use 1 or two very large (slow rotation) fans to cool the drives that that's going to be my last option.

FB-dimms are 15watts each? Is that total power draw or is that waste heat? Luckily I don't need a fast system at all for the fileserver here so I'll just pick up any low TDP system I can find as pretty much any current low heat processor will be more than sufficient to run the os (linux). All raid will be hardware (3ware) so it's just pure I/O.

[Edge]

Is that total power draw or is that waste heat?

Total power draw, but it is still 7 watts above DDR-II. It's one of the dirty secrets of the nextgen Intel stuff - all Intel's performance per watt calculations are done with only one stick of memory. Since you are doing a file server, large memory shouldn't be too much of an issue - I do database work, and so I load up on dimms.

[Shoebox9]

I totally don't understand.

32 drives are going to be amazingly noisy just at idle. You'd never notice two 7v 120 Nexus fans over that circus. I won't even use a single 3.5 drive in my silent system (notebook drives instead) because of the noise.

Seriously, you aren't even talking about isolating the drives vibration from the case, the alum hum alone will be louder than the fans. Just air cool.

I was close to casting my own 10cm thick walled concrete, high density h/d box with h/d water blocks, & a fanless copper car radiator on top. Everything else I can make totally silent in a high performance system, but not 3.5" drives. In the end I was able to put this box (9 drives) into another room instead, and cable through the wall.

[stevecs]

Actually 32drives should not be bad at all. I have 24 drives already and they are quieter than a single 80mm fan. Even if I have to add a fan due to cooling requirements it would be a very low rpm 160mm or larger (probably 200-240mm, at <1000rpm). So drive noise is moot well below the sound floor. Vibrations also is moot, cases like this are 1) not made of aluminum anyway, 2) weight of empty cases is well over 60lbs (with drive bays it will probably be closer to 75-100lbs). Case itself would be sitting on a custom wood roller (1 - 1.5" wood on rubber rollers). All in all vibration would not be an issue.

This is a server room so some noise can be lived with but that is not what I am working toward (trying to do as much fanless as possible). All 'viewing' and remote operations will be in other rooms of the house either hard wired or wireless from the main server room.

Just to give a reference, right now w/ 26 drives, 30 fans, the noise floor is 56db(A) at 3 feet. (all fans are 80mm). I can easily see getting rid of at least 29 of those fans with a proper radiator/passive setup.

[Shoebox9]

Now I see the problem.

You currently have 30 80mm screamers, so you beleive (based on current experience) that fans are louder than drives.

Yes, this is usually true, but it doesn't have to be.

It is easy to make air cooling much less noisy than drives, in fact water cooling is often louder than smart air cooling these days. (The pump on foam usually makes more noise than 2-3 x 120 ultra low speed, vibration isolated fans, if you use the right fans.)

An mCubed T-balancer will give a fan full current to get it spinning, than drop it back to the lowest RPM it is capable of still working at (RPM is monitored by the T-balancer). Get the right fans and this is very slow. If the temps go above a set level it speeds up the fans based on a temp/speed curve you create in the software.

Seriously, many over at SPCR say the idle & seek noise from their single suspended 3.5 drive is by far the loudest part of their air cooled system. Think about that, it's a whole different world of "quiet", and it can be had with just air.

At one stage I built a drive silencing box for around 10 drives out of 3/4" wood, and tons of accoustic foam. The box had a single burried fan blowing/sucking air through a maze of sound baffling. The end result- the drives stayed nice and cool, I coudn't hear the fan, but the hard drives were still far too noisy for me. I've never used it.

http://www.renaissance.com.au/Stuff/HDcase1.jpg
http://www.renaissance.com.au/Stuff/HDcase2.jpg
http://www.renaissance.com.au/Stuff/HDcase2b.jpg
http://www.renaissance.com.au/Stuff/HDcase3.jpg
http://www.renaissance.com.au/Stuff/HDcase4.jpg

P180 which could be made quieter than the h/drive box standing next to it.

[HammerSandwich]

I'm with Shoebox on this.

I have two full-size PCs, one WCed and one on air, with sound/vibration damping. Each has a single 3.5" HD in a Smart Drive 2002 enclosure, and both drives are audible. They're not loud, but noticeable. Going to 32 drives would increase drive noise by about 15dB, which would be loud. At that point, a couple of quiet fans should not be a problem.

What's the quietest fan you've used, Stevecs? At least try a http://www.jab-tech.com/YATE-LOON-120mm-Case-Fan-D12SL-12-pr-3009.html']Yate Loon 120 ('http://www.jab-tech.com/YATE-LOON-120mm-Case-Fan-D12SL-12-pr-3009.html") at 5-6V before you decide.

Of course, if you're more interested in tackling a highly challenging project than easily building a quiet machine, go for it!

[Shoebox9]

From a review at SPCR: "To get a PC any closer to silence than the 20-22 dBA/1m noise floor imposed by the quietest desktop hard drives, we have to look at other storage options. With the best low noise fans, it is possible to achieve as much as 20~25 cubic feet per minute at a noise level of <18 dBA/1m. However, the lowest noise achieved by any desktop hard drive has remained unchanged at 20~22 dBA/1m for several years." (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article207-page1.html)


One day, when I don't have a server/noise room I can put a hole through the office wall to, I'll build a truely silent case for lots of drives. I've already drawn it up.

It will consist of two long sheets of copper (4-5mm thick) that the drives are stacked closely between. Next bend heaps of 10mm copper tube so it snakes along the outside of the copper sheets, and braze/solder it on for good thermal contact.

Pour a 10cm (4"?) thick walled concrete box to place over the top of the drive array, with two water tubes snaking through to the outside, along with data & power cables. Also set a strong metal bar to act as side handle.

Once set, poured enclosure is placed face down a on sheet of rubber & alum/concrete slab floor/whatever, with h/d's & water pump inside. Full sized copper car/truck radiator :p is fixed on top of enclosue for passive cooling & to act as the water res. Dedicated fanless PSU can also sit on top.

Need to swap a drive, flip up enclosure (probably using a car jack!) & remove drive from between copper sheets. Use coloured data cables for easier drive identification. A water flow or temp alarm would be wise in case of pump failure, and a row of LEDs showing drive status would be a nice touch.

Low cost, long lasting, totally silent, fun project to do with kids.

If you don't need true silence (I have a hearing condition that computer noise aggrivates), just use large, low speed fans.

Cheers.

[stevecs]

Shoebox: interesting case pictures for the drives.

Yes, I completely agree that HDs are not 100% silent and when at spin up/down, accessing (seek/read/write) they do make noise. I work at a datacenter and some of the frames that we have with >500 drives in them you can here it above some of the 20ton coolers that we have.

HammerSandwich: I've used numerous fans though not specifically the one you mentioned. The _ONLY_ reason I'm using 80's in the current environment is that they are built-in to the external raid5 towers (8fans per tower). That's all going away. My personal systems (ie, not the 'server') uses 120 & 160mm fans (mechantronics, comairrotron, papst, ystech, sunon, and sinwan to name a few, but generally the quietest that I've played with is probably around ~20db(a) but also run some of the louder fans at 7volts so they are much quieter than rated). Mainly I try to use 38mm fans so I can use them as spares for water cooling et al for the higher static presure ratings that they have, though they are louder than the 20mm fans.

My first goal here is to find a case that can handle 24-32 drives and (hopefully) remove all fans from it or at least all but say one fan (and that I have no problem getting a 180mm or 240mm slow-rotation fan for). The drive access sounds is not a concern for this particular environment as they would have a sound level much lower than current. Plus if I can get the fans out of the case that would allow me to baffle the entire rack.

As for water cooling, yes the pump does make some noise which is why I submerge them and vibration isolate them w/ gromets. Once that's done you can put your ear on it and hear a small 'hum' being transmitted through the water but even 1' away you can't hear anything. sound meter doesn't pick it up over background at all. (remember this is 100% passive radiator no fans.)

[Vadtafzep]

Sick.