Save ProCooling: Staff Wanted!

[Joe]

The post that was in the Site issues area this afternoon got my attention and got me thinking about doing something I have thought about for a bit now.

ProCooling won't close up shop any time soon, or ever as long as I am here... but in order for ProCooling to become relevant again, and get back on its game we need some help!

What we nee is staff. Editorial writers, Reviewers, Project writers, etc...

The catch is the writers, staff, etc... need to be dedicated and GOOD writers. We have had MANY staff in the past that either never wrote anything but had big big plans, or just plain couldn’t write to save their life. We need lively active writers who know how to paint a picture or present an idea or concept in words effectively. Someone who will take a sense of ownership and actively help move the site back into the fore front of the industry or at least back into the light of it ;)

As Procooling has shown, we are no BS. Staff who come on need to be the same, call it how it is, straight up, no fluff crap.

Topics: Anything you choose that is technical or industry related in nature. Yes the sites name is ProCooling, but diversity in the content is good. I would love to get info and analysis at a technical level of memory technologies, upcoming processor tech, storage tech, etc... We all know now that reviewing and getting quantifiable results doing cooling testing that is accepted across the board is not possible and is the reason that PC is in this lul currently. While doing cooling testing would be optimal, there is a substantial cost, and instantly obsolesce of any testing rig that makes it not really the thing I think will happen unless we get some damn motivated writers ;) If you have a topic, I am sure we can find a place for it on the site. Consumer electronics included.

Compensation: Reviewers keep what ever they review, and if a writer shows themselves to be a valuable asset to the site, they will be compensated in a profit sharing percentage of what the site brings in. In time if the site develops into a strong enough money flow, then per article of the month payouts (ala OC'rs) is possible. My only goal for PC is for it to pay for itself, which is just does right now... barely. So if we get more traffic, and more presence, money is not going to be that hard to get to the point we can pay out.

What PC has to offer the reader base:
1. A long history of technical reviews/articles/editorials
2. A technical and attentive audience who have in the past defined many stages of the cooling market's development.
3. A fluid website that integrates with the forums, chat, etc...
4. Access to many experts in many fields for validation of review/article data.
5. A semi-inactive staff of very bright individuals (pH, Brian, myself)... we may be too lazy to write, but we sure can lend a hand :)
6. A reliable server (was reliable until it flaked out last week for some weird ass reason hehe), that has lots of additional capacity.

Please reply, PM or email me ( joe@procooling.com ) if you are interested. We have asked this before, but when we did we had a website that was impossible to update... that’s changed... now we have a website that’s able to be dynamically updated via the web... so why not have at it?! Just a word of caution though, we will not accept just anyone... I would rather PC sit as it is, than to take on second rate writers or fluff pieces.

I will probably ask for a sample of writing from you or a review or what ever you want to do on the site to check out how you go about it.

[Joe]

I do have some good news, looks like long time ProCooling Chat personality Warpath is going to come on and write goodies for us. More news on that as it comes.

[bigben2k]

If I can suggest, you should start by designating a Chief Editor.
Purpose: to validate articles, and examine them for their validity. This person could also collaborate with potential writers (full time, or one-off), in writing these articles.

Aside from my testbench, I do have and will take the time to fill that role, if you're interested. I'm by no means an expert, but I am able to pose relevant questions to writers, to make a more accurate and complete article.

Not sure where pHaestus stands on testing, but we'd need that too; a valid testbench. Personally, I think ProCooling should have two fully operational testbenches.

[Sin22]

Personally, I think ProCooling should have two fully operational testbenches.

Testbeds are still gg to be the source of the problems, and the interpretation of results from them. I wasnt around for the last feud, but I had heard some rumblings about it enough to guess what it was about.

You've always been a supporter of the Waterblock Testers Association (was it called that?), but even with two standardisd testbeds in two locations, it could very well cause enough discrepency in numbers when testing that manufacturers or vested interests will cry foul.

At that, the margin of difference in some of these blocks is getting ridiculously small. I just finished doing an overview of about 11 blocks ( Most of the AquaXtreme range, WW, Storm, TDX etc). It was way too much of a pain and too much of a wallet killer to get the level of reviews that the people here on ProC want, and even then I'd be scared to remotely mention anything about the overview as it still would get torn to shreds.

At the end of the day, I'd love to help, and I reckon so would a bunch of other people, but there still is that ongoing fear of getting ripped a new one because one review doesnt meet the ridiculously high criteria of some members, or someone else has an agenda, which is getting quite ridiculous on an online forum meant to share knowledge and love of watercooling. Its gotten to the stage whereby this place is seen as a trolling idea for ideas in the watercooling industry and easy money corrupts many a heart.

[bigben2k]

Actually...

From my perspective, the problem isn't that the results would be different, the issue is that one needs to be able to explain why, and that can be more complicated than putting up a testbench itself!

I'm sure that you're only painfully aware of the small differences between blocks nowadays. Yes, it's expensive; I've invested > ~1'000$ already, and I'm not done. With a lot of patience though, I've been able to pick out a few key items on eBay for an affordable price, and have received critical assistance from Bill.

The organization I started is called the WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) @ wbta.us . While also a slow runner, it will remain, as surely as Joe intends to keep ProCooling around. I find myself in need of an assistant to keep it running too.

I could go on and on about the testbench issue, but the point of this thread is about ProCooling itself. To me, in order to be relevant, it needs a testbench, and to be important, it needs two. There's no issue here, as long as it's handled properly. The goal here is to validate the data, and that can be done.

That aside, I still believe that ProCooling needs first and foremost, to designate a Chief Editor. Every site out there is organized this way, as is any press or magazine. It just makes sense, and it lets the writers know what to expect.

I *almost* wrote an article for THG last year, and I received a 40 page format and requirement list, to make sure that I meet their guidelines (unfortunately, I lacked time to complete the articles). This isn't easy work.

[DryFire]

It'd be really sad to see one of my favorite cooling sites die, but I don't know many people with the ability, time and money to do proper testing.

While I don't have the equipment to do proper water cooling testing, I wouldn't mind writing an article about setting up H.264 playback and the processing requirements needed to play certain files; I could even make some test files.

I may be writing a paper about water cooling as an independent study, but I doubt anyone who's actually built a water cooling setup would care much about it.

[Joe]

As I posted to another thread:

I know 4 people who recently water cooled their HTPC's, and home PC's to remove noise. (People who laughed at using watercooling only a year earlier) Yes you are right that the people who use it for insane cooling levels are dwindling. The people who use it for silent computing though are going up and up.

For that reason I see reviewing cooling systems to be less a practice in .001C resolution and accuracy, 2000 samplings a second, millions of data points, to a more realistic... general testing of a systems capabilities. Yes the puritans of data will find little value in testing like that... but the people who still post and visit the site Would, and we would attract more of the mainstream readers.

Focusing on acoustics, ease of install, long term reliability, quality construction, and price (comparison against the cost of a similar air setup) I see as the way we move forward on testing this stuff. With CPU temp's gathered as good as reasonable but not wasting thousands of dollars on environmental chambers, die's, lab quality testing hardware, etc...

Let’s be serious here. PC is not what it was a year ago... and it was only the way it was because of a vocal minority of the reader base (Technical to the fringe). People just want to know what works, and see stuff in use. Giving them data they can use and evaluate purchasing decisions on.

I think this is the road map for PC coming back into the fold as a major player in the cooling market as well as a major player in the review industry in general.
I just dont see doing testing of cooling equiptment to be that needed at a base core level. Most of us arent building new cooling systems or engineering new blocks... MOST people are just buying off the shelf hardware. More simple testing will give the reader an idea what to look forward to and not be bogged down in technical BS that doesnt matter to 99% of the people who read it.

Back a year ago and before I would agree that we had a more technical base, but now, we just need to appeal to the more general who are looking for solid testing/review data with no bullshit.

[bobo5195]

Where to begin…

Firstly I disagree slightly with bens point about an editor in chief. I think a sub committee of editors would be enough with maybe someone in a less involved role posting (last read through check spelling/ adjudicating). Which would take next to nothing time wise.

As for the reviews I completely agree with there being very little need for proper high end testing because to be honest all testing is a load of bollocks anyway. But that very little need is where procooling should lie cos frankly no one else would do it. The best niche is still being the most technical place on the web as that is what this site is good at it’s its USP the one thing it is better at than anything else.

I would also like to see more home made block designs and techy stuff. As it is simply not out there. Granted 99.99% of ppl reading won’t make blocks but a lot might want to read about them. In a similar way Top Gear doesn’t review normal cars or do any proper or scientific reviews. It does supercars and says they have many torques.

As for me I barely have time these days as I have a job I like (and can’t talk about). Given the amount of bad posts that I have seen I might post an article on turbulence, rather than writing 100,000 words explaining fluid mech at average high school level is not going to be fun. I could post 50 pages of maths which shows how you go from raw theory to a CFD formulation for example but I doubt most people (other than college kids reading up on fluid mech) would be interested or would survive the brain crush in one reading.

Another topic that might interest me would be an article on making blocks yourself with a little help from a friendly workshop. Given the current state of modern manufacturing there is becoming less and less reasons why you need a factory. For about $200 you could make a custom block that is good and is your own. Not cost efficient performance wise but brings a smile to your face and is l33t as the kiddies would say.

[Joe]

See there is something to consider, is once we can get the masses to the site, and get traffic back up we can afford in time, and cost wise to invest in more serious testing. But this is like a triage effort. We need to save the site then we can work on improving it ;)

[ZX2Slow]

I've been lurking on this board for a few years. I cannot write, nor do I have a degree in thermodynamics (CS and EE). I would really like this forum back the way it was before the review tomfoolery.

If theres anything I can contribute let me know.

[BGP Spook]

I would love to write and review for PC, if it means breathing life back into PC.

I am studying to be a ME.

I think I am fairly good at writting and I enjoy the technical side of things.

I learn as I go, inspite of my ocassional ignorance....

Once I get over the hump of any learning curve I think I would be a valuable asset and the experience would be beneficial for me.

Yet, I am a full time student.

Typically, I barely have the time to keep up with the news, let alone write articles on any consistent basis.

I will try, though; as I can I will try.

-------------------------------

I think there should be a chief editor who has the final say on any given article and a small committe of editors to sift the articles until they are ready for the chief editor.

I believe we should aim for the common consumer, the price concious watercooler, and the silence enthusiast.

We can all without sacrificing scientific data collection or analysis.

This may mean we will have to forgo higher levels of accuracy--more than three or four significant figures--in the short term.

But science has proceeded with this method for generations.

[Azazel]

May I suggest taking a look at SPCR for an example of a hardware site that is unashamedly technical, while still having interest and relavence for their nontechnical readers? The measurements done there are some of the best that can be found, yet many consumers now go there for reviews.

Take heart in seeing that so many people still wish to see procooling survive and succeed, even after the big fallout its still been the place that I go for the lowdown on the more technical side of watercooling. This, along with OCNZ and OCAU is one of the few forums I still use, even if I'm more of a lurker than anything else here.

I will try and document my next silent project, if I have time I'll write it up as an article for use here or in SPCR, whomever wants it.

[Joe]

We would want any review you could offer :) Warpath (I need to find out that guys real name) is writing up a case review in teh next few days also.. *gasp* content! ;)

[BGP Spook]

I think I have an article idea but I don't really want to mention it until I feel sure I have something worth the time to read.

If I do, then who would I send it to for review?

[Joe]

Send it to me, joe@procooling.com

thx

[CYberDruid]

I found Cathar's threads invaluable and Phaestus of course is in a category by himself. As a Modder and Acrylic's guru I am afraid I may not be the right person to write technical articles for your site, but I would very much like to invigorate this Forum in some manner...

When I figure out how I can help I'll get in touch.

Best Regards

CyberDruid

[Cathar]

I think the issue here is that Procooling itself is not becoming irrelevant, it's that water-cooling overall has stagnated, at least from a technical point of view.

Taking a look at the XtremeSystems w/c forums the interest levels seem to have moved from the DIY design and technical aspects, and so on, and have moved more towards general system building from DIY parts. Sure, people are still interested in how stuff performs, but they're heavily factoring in size and noise into that equation too.

This is also reflected in the market-place. How many new blocks are on the market nowadays? Some companies are running products from 2 to 3 years ago, albeit slightly refined with the odd tweak here and there, but overall the marketplace hasn't moved to any great deal.

We've all analysed the crap out of pumps, fans, blocks, radiators, tubing, and so on, and slowly but surely as a community we've narrowed down the choices to the good stuff, and the average stuff. What is there left to do? PC water-cooling overall is closish to a "known quantity" now. Sure there are quirks and debates over testing methods, and the strength of each side of the debate gets backed up by real-world evidence for both cases. Take a look at the SG overclockers w/b review. Higher overclocks (more stable cooling of the core) yet with higher reported temperatures. Go figure. I do believe that those debates were really more of a symptom of the lack of real things to talk about. Everyone's fighting over the scraps of what there was left to do.

That's all besides the point though. PC was heavily aligned with the bleeding edge of w/c development and attracted the audience it did because advances were coming thick and fast for quite a while there. That's no longer true, both in the market-place and in the DIY case. This is the real reason for the decline. It actually started over 2 years back when PC was split into sub-sections in an attempt to spur additional debate in various sub-areas. Instead all I feel that it has achieved is split the sub-interest areas up into ways in which people HAVE TO first have an interest in some sub-section before they'll even click on some thread. i.e. the PC site seems to now be so sub-diversified that it somewhat inhibits the lively cross-pollination that occurred between sub-interest groups.

Is there an answer? I don't know. Get back to roots maybe. It's never going to be the place it once was. That's not anyone's fault, that's just the way the market place has taken us all. I'd say get back to a singular technical discussion forum format. Put it back in one place where people can easily see the content and contribute. Also, raise the default "Show past 30 days" only, and increase that to 1 year. It might re-spark some interest in topics that have slid by the way-side and are less easy to find for the casual browser.

Take a look at OCForums, XTremeSystems, Hocp, and OCAU. While some here may look on those sites with a certain level of contempt, they are still active and somewhat lively. I don't mean look to replicate them, but look to see just what it is that people are posting about. Not all of it is non-technical. People are really more focused on system-building. The correct matching of components, and so on. If you want to attract the masses, start talking the about stuff that is interesting to the masses.

PC has backed itself into an elitist corner. Again, I don't believe that this is anyone's fault, but there sure was room here for the focused technical forums alongside with more mass-interest discussions. PC's forum user base generally eschewed the mass-interest group and as a result once the technical aspects declined, just as they were always going to one day, it's left without the support base that it's looking for. I mean take a look at where a number of the more technical posters here started posting. It was on those sites, so having mass appeal people isn't all bad.

Look around the web. Look at what's working today. Refocus the technical aspects, and hopefully something will be salvaged.

[CYberDruid]

I think Cathar has made some good points--especially about over-diversifying and watering down what has always been a kind of elite niche for real technical data.

System building is really big--but there are alot of sites that have grown around that. Why I come to PC is for unabashedly tedious technical discussions that I would even be afraid to post a response to..LOL. If I want to know which mobo OCs the Kentsfield I know which sites to go visit for that--but if I want to understand microturbulence and how jet impingement design functions I come here.

Maintaining relevance is always difficult without change..so I understand your desire to move past test benches, Joe. But trying to be like other sites seems like a gamble--PC needs to reconnect back to it's honest and technical roots. This should be the place people go to refute the BS that springs up everywhere else!

[Joe]

Pretty much its a damned if you do and damned if you dont thing right now. If I go and keep hoping for technical content, the site will stay as is and it will just sit here. If I push forward and write content I like and can do easily... then the site may grow in some ways, and in turn could bring more writing potential to the mix again so we can get more technical focused action going on.

Pretty much I am the only writer on the site, and I dont have much time. So pretty much the site needs to take what I am giving or step up to help with the site ;)

[plywood99]

That's all besides the point though. PC was heavily aligned with the bleeding edge of w/c development and attracted the audience it did because advances were coming thick and fast for quite a while there. That's no longer true, both in the market-place and in the DIY case. This is the real reason for the decline. It actually started over 2 years back when PC was split into sub-sections in an attempt to spur additional debate in various sub-areas. Instead all I feel that it has achieved is split the sub-interest areas up into ways in which people HAVE TO first have an interest in some sub-section before they'll even click on some thread. i.e. the PC site seems to now be so sub-diversified that it somewhat inhibits the lively cross-pollination that occurred between sub-interest groups.

I'd say get back to a singular technical discussion forum format. Put it back in one place where people can easily see the content and contribute. Also, raise the default "Show past 30 days" only, and increase that to 1 year. It might re-spark some interest in topics that have slid by the way-side and are less easy to find for the casual browser.

Take a look at OCForums, XTremeSystems, Hocp, and OCAU. While some here may look on those sites with a certain level of contempt, they are still active and somewhat lively. I don't mean look to replicate them, but look to see just what it is that people are posting about. Not all of it is non-technical. People are really more focused on system-building. The correct matching of components, and so on. If you want to attract the masses, start talking the about stuff that is interesting to the masses.

Look around the web. Look at what's working today. Refocus the technical aspects, and hopefully something will be salvaged.


Agree 100% with Cathar's statement. I really did enjoy the forums more when it wasn't so divided. Allowed for a lot more interaction and general discussion.

I hope it isn't too much trouble Joe, but forums could use a new format...

Ply

[Joe]

What new format?

[plywood99]

Notnew so to speak, but more like they used to be, before things were so split up...

[Joe]

Yeh the more I thought about it the more I see that theres some "re-arranging" that could happpen.

I have to clean some stuff up and change some things anyway, so when I do that I can go and consolidate some topics.

[laxman]

Over the last year I have seen this site's activity come to a slow halt. Although this is not just contained to procooling but the w/c community as a whole. It seems that we as a community have reached a plateau in not only cooling efficiency but innovation. Leaving the community very little to write about or grow on. Also this lack of substantial improvement have caused C/W values of different water blocks to creep closer together. Therefore putting a heavy burden on the tester to judge which water block is “better”. This burden of proof caused many debates over testing practices and which water blocks are truly “better”. With many debates turning heated, many strong leaders of the community lessen their contributions to the community and the community shrank. Thus we are where we are now. Since we cannot change what has happened, lets try not to make those same mistakes. The largest problem faced with the community at this point should be how do we break the plateau of efficiency that we are in now. Or how do we provide quite cooling or even silent cooling without sacrificing efficiency. Or how can we make these cooling solutions smaller, lighter, or even mobile. It should not be how do we test it or which product is marginally better. Yes we have to test well but if the improvement is under 1c why should we care. Personally the former problems are what loom and hang in my mind. Therefore I would love to be the person to beat out the g7 by any reasonable margin. This mindset is what has brought me to this point. Right now I have a full scale ready test bench to test water blocks, radiators, and full systems. Not only that but in about a month I will have a full CNC mill with a bi-directional repeatability of about 5-10 micrometers (bases off daedal slides very cool stuff). So yes I am gearing up to build and test many new water cooling solutions. Right now I have 3 or 4 water blocks and some other more interesting stuff planned. This is what I am doing to help the community. So I will make this offer to anyone, give me something to test and I will test it give me something to build and I will build it. These are just my thoughts take them as such.

[bigben2k]

Honestly, what baffles me is why phase change cooling isn't very active here. I know that it isn't terribly accurate, and there are a lot of subjective elements to it, but many, many other sites are a lot more active on this.

I'm starting the jump to phase change, and sadly won't be able to use Procooling for any assistance/reference. At least I can report my experiences here. :shrug:

[Joe]

Could be that everyone blew all their cash on H2O rigs and didnt have anything left for phase change ;)

Also the fact that none of the staff on this site live in their parents basement, so we cant afford to buy phase change setups to post reviews on .... to get activity like that here we would need to "seed" the site for it, getting content about it up... which we dont have.

[bigben2k]

Like I said, I'll be more than happy to contribute my experiences. I'm not sure it'll be enough to start something, but it's a start.

[UnaClocker]

Too bad I got voted off this island.. I still have a couple ideas for articles. :) And I could probably go on for 5+ pages about why I hate Vista. ;)

[Brians256]

Do you finally want to resolve what happened? Talk to Joe. I know that I've forgotten most of it, but more importantely, he's the one to talk to.

Take care of dirty laundry by talking to the people involved, Una, not making snide remarks in public forums.

[j813]

How do other sites get support from companies for reviews, how do they have products from companies to be reviewed by the site's staffs?

About the masses some prefer having info about what's out there, heatpipes, maybe hardware + OCing, cooling is a factor

Hopefully we can see Bigben2k's phase coooling infos.

[UnaClocker]

That was a snide remark? Sheesh..

[bigben2k]

...Hopefully we can see Bigben2k's phase coooling infos.
Glad to see there's interest!

Actually, I'm leaning towards taking a break for the rest of this month, so I can come back with a vengeance in January. It'd give me time to re-setup in the new room (the tile guy didn't show up yet :( ) and I still have a test series to run on Maxxxracer's Swissflow, a prototype coolant additive to test out, more parts acquisition for the environmental chamber, making a custom cable for my new multi-function data acquisition card, and high on my list is a digital camera with macro, along with a high speed ISP, at home, so I can easily and quickly update everyone. Also setting up a couple of Linux boxes, wireless network, .... Pfew, it's a good thing that I'm taking a break! :D

[Joe]

As far as my role or interest in PC it's as follows for the upcoming future. pH and I talked a good bit about PC and shit when he was in town a few weeks ago. Lets just say our talk's were "Great Success! - HIGH FIVE!"

I am starting a new job in a couple weeks that will be taking me away for good periods of time and also be challenging me more than my current job by a good bit. That and also the other hobbies I have in full gear at the moment mean even if I had interest in PC cooling I wouldn't be able to spend the time.

As it stands, I will keep PC up, maintain it, and help others who may want to post stuff. But I will not be writing anything for the far foreseeable future. I have no interest in the topics at this point, but really hope those that do can make use of the info that's up here and those who are interested enough o want to post articles and such... I will lend any assistance I can.

I am also putting other web projects I had on hold as I transition to my new job. I was in the process of setting up a media and community company centered around motorsports. (http://www.northerndrift.com ) and some other domain names I am not going to list at this time. When I do get time to do web stuff I will more than likely be focused on that.


As for the UnaClocker thing. I think he was kidding. Una would be proud of me though - I am the proud owner of a 1985 Omni GLH turbo that's being upgraded to a Turbo II setup and hardened for rally. Una could come back here and write shit if he wanted... I have no bitch with him, I mean that was like 4 ****ing years ago... I don't even remember 4 years ago that much at all hehe.

So, PC isn't going down, its just going to power idle here until some power awesome mac daddy comes around here and wants to take the helm and rocket this mofo forward.

[jaydee]

The computer enthusiast scene is slowing down everywhere right now. The same old hardware has been out for a couple years now with just a few minor tweaks to make us think we need them. Nothing worth playing with right now.

I think after Vista gets popular and DX10 takes over and maybe even 64bit software then things might get more interesting. We might have reasons to overclock again and more reason for quiet cooling because that hardware is going to be hot. DX10 GPU's, quad core cpu's and 1000 watt power supplies spells LOUD.

Right now however I am with Joe. Got more interesting hobbies and spending more time at work. I still drop by to delete the reported posts and keep an eye on the place and will continue to do so as long as I have moderator status.

Keep the site up and I think things have a good chance to take off again. Maybe even in a new direction. Might take some time though.

[UnaClocker]

As for the UnaClocker thing. I think he was kidding. Una would be proud of me though - I am the proud owner of a 1985 Omni GLH turbo that's being upgraded to a Turbo II setup and hardened for rally. Una could come back here and write shit if he wanted... I have no bitch with him, I mean that was like 4 ****ing years ago... I don't even remember 4 years ago that much at all hehe.
Hehe, Rock on.. I have an '88 Horizon that I converted into a GLH-T clone.. Was my daily driver up until recently.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2094886
Got a page for yours? :) I can imagine it'd be fun to rally, I have had some serious fun with mine on a REALLY LONG dirt road I used to live down for a couple years. Neighbors hated me.. haha.. ;)

[Joe]

I have some pics of it here : http://clegg.procooling.com/gallery/album47

thats fresh from picking it up, its currently in the same condition, I am working on getting a new wiring harness for the engine bay, new alternator, and some other odds and ends to make it driveable.

[UnaClocker]

If you want to convert it to SMEC, I have a harness for ya.. Plug right in and be good to go.. :) Got the '85 Electric FSM? Must have.. :) Find it on Ebay from time to time..

[Joe]

hmm not sure I want to convert it to SMEC. It currently has a Stage 1 Mopar performance ECU In it, and I have a stage 2 sitting in a box for it. theres a used but good condition harness on Ebay Iam waiting on some cash to buy.

[UnaClocker]

Gunna upgrade the brakes? Cheap and easy.. Same rotors, get minivan calipers and pads. Get the master cylinder off that minivan, 24mm instead of 21mm. Find an '89+ Daytona or Lebaron at the JY and get the entire rear disc assembly off the axle in back. Bolts right on and your Goes Like Hell will Stop Like Hell.. :) I only did the bigger MC and minivan calipers on my '83 SC.. Like night and day.. Still running the tiny tiny TBI brakes on my Horizon.. I wanted less rotating mass on the dragstrip.. hehe.. Keep a close eye on your oil pan when you rally.. It's just about the lowest point on the front of the car.. I've lost a couple on my old dirt road to rocks (granted it was on my Daytona after I lowered it, but in a real rally, I imagine the ruts are gunna put the road right up against that pan..

[UnaClocker]

hehe.. Want a socketted computer? Not too hard to do, REALLY easy with that old logic module based computer you have in that car, as there's no potting compound to dig out like the SMEC has.. Then you can just reprogram your own computer... :) I usually start with the MP Stage 1 cal and go from there.. 3bar, bigger injectors, you pretty much HAVE to do your own calibrations to get that kind of stuff.. :)

[j813]

Glad to see there's interest! :D

Let's get it ON, waiting for a while now



O.T.
Create a Cars sub forum?
Love car tech stuff too, let's see those engines :)

[jaydee]

Let's get it ON, waiting for a while now



O.T.
Create a Cars sub forum?
Love car tech stuff too, let's see those engines :)
Already created: http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/forumdisplay.php?f=66 :)

[ben333]

Hey everyone... I am new here. I was looking at some of the projects and I was really impressed. Those alone brought me into this site. I love reading articles about home made water cooling setups. If you guys need a reviewer, I think I can do an OK job. I can be a moderator also. If procooling EVER closes then I'll always have an open server.
EDIT: oh I'm sorry. Didn't notice how old this thread was.

[dk8100]

Hi guys,

I have been a member for a couple months, but honestly I thought the forum was inactive. I have seen a lot more recent posts in the last month. If there is anything I can do to help keep things up and running please let me know.

[ben333]

lol, glad i'm not the only one alive here!

[dk8100]

lol, glad i'm not the only one alive here!
same here!

I happened on the forum as i was looking for ideas on making my own waterblocks. i'll post some pictures in the water section as soon as i can. It would be nice to get this forum a little more active to develop ideas about home made cooling stuff. I'm gonna be posting some work logs on some other sites later this week, i'm gonna post em here too, hopefully draw in some more members.

Mods-is there anything we can do in terms of site maintenance to get things a little more up to date?

[Joe]

curious what you mean by "up to date" whats not up to date?

[dk8100]

curious what you mean by "up to date" whats not up to date?

its not that things are outdated, but a lot of the stuff on the home page says 2006. It made me think the site was inactive. There have been a lot more posts on the forums lately so apparently I was wrong.

[Joe]

the site is inactive due to the staff taking off in other directions in life. The forums are active due to some itnerested members. I am going to keep the site up, and if someone came to me and had a genuine interest in running with ProCooling and making it up to date and current again I would entertain it.

pH, Brian, Myself have all sort of moved on to other things. Although I did buy an aftermarket HSF for my E6600 the other day! whoohoo! hehe Thats about as much "high end" cooling as I've done this year.

I dont have time for ProCooling anymore, I have a job that pushes me to 110% every day, and other hobbies.

But as I said, if someone wanted to step up and take on the work/reward that comes with running a site like this... I'd consider it.

[ben333]

The comment about buying a heatsink almost made me throw up. Those freaking double header projects were ****ing amazing! How can you let go man? You know you made me go and buy a dual Pentium II 450 just for fun? I'd love to work on this site. I think we can really work on it. Get some sponsors and do some reviews. I can trow a few mods up... work logs... If you can give me an admin position or take some tips from me I bet we can get alot more people on this site and focus it on water cooling. I may have joined just a month ago (if that) but it feels like I've been here forever. You should come on AIM some time. I'm "coolcat97a". But I think with a little work we can bring in more people and get more hits and make more money... more projects ... More MAGIC! What happened to the magic, joe?

[bigben2k]

I'm not sure what Procooling needs anymore.

I was out for a few weeks, with a collapsed lung :( but back now, and smoke free! :D

[bobo5195]

Personally I think more vodka is called for good stuff but not grey goose as that’s chavy.

Depending how the mood takes me I might be doing a flow calculator with split channel calculations based of the one on xtremesystems by a guy called martin. Thermal will come but it’s a little hard to do and in the future I have a cunning plan involving rewriting physics textbooks.

Either way this has nothing much to do with procooling except I was going to put it on the wiki as it is generally the best place for it.

[jaydee]

The problem is watercooling is pretty useless at this point and time. When a $20 heat sink and fan can overclock your XP3000+ from 2000mhz to 2500mhz while keeping the 92M fan at half speed and still have room for more overclock it gets pointless to add $300 worth of water cooling gear to an already overclocked and over powered PC.

On top of that with CPU prices so low it would be considerably cheaper to buy a new CPU and motherboard to gain more power if needed. And the newer CPU's run cooler to boot.

Also we have covered pretty much everything a do it yourselfer can do with basic equipment and we have been well into what can be done with commercial equipment.

Also the prices on new watercooling equipment has dropped to the point you would be a lot better off buying a older block as I would perform better than anything you can hack together in your garage (even with my CNC mill that is collecting dust).

So the current people that made this site what it is have moved on to other challenges as we "been there done that" and moved back to air cooling. :D

If someone was to try and make this site "live" again it would take some serious time and money in testing equipment. Not to mention how to properly use it.

A renewed focus on air cooling vs. watercooling would be my starting point. Pro's and cons of both with modern equipment would be pretty useful I would think. A focus on quiet cooling on both water cooled and air cooled machines a must.

Another issue is desktops are slowly becoming obsolete. Another 10 years and many computers will be laptops and handheld. That is one main reason why ProCooling stalled. It isn't adapting to the times. Even Overclockers is having issues with that. The only thing on their mind lately is the potential fall of AMD. Only a couple reviews there lately and those just seem to be a courtesy to the people that took the time to send them the products.

I still drop by here to check new posts and delete spam. To busy playing mmorpgs, playing with RC's and fishing lately. Right now getting prepared for a 3 day kayaking trip in the puget sound. I will make time to help out however I can if someone wants to try and take off with the site however.

One thing that might be useful is data-mining the forums for useful posts and threads and turning them into articles or dropping the info in the Wiki.

Also if we start doing reviews again I think it might be a good idea to have more than one person doing the same review to double verify the results. Maybe a standard computer run and a die sim run. I still have all my testing equipment and was pretty happy with the last setup I had. Just lost time and intrest to continue at the time.

Anyway off to work on truck and gear up for fishing trip.

[ben333]

Have a look at these sites - www.overclockersclub.com - www.ocforums.com - If we can make pro cooling a hardware and cooling site then I bet we can really get back the magic. I wish I had a time machine and go back to the late 90s and get a CNC mill and go to lan parties and play doom and unreal and quake and have every one ask me what the hell was in my computer... I didn't really get into computer too much until 2004 and by that time the magic was nearly over. If I had a CNC mill I'd make water blocks for all my computers... I don't really have tools or money so I recently got a water block and I actually feel really bad about that lol... If I could give all my computer stuff for a week in a pace that I could build a water cooled rig with all of the ideas I've thought of (almost endless) and end up with an old dual P2 or a Duron then that would just be ok...

[jaydee]

I have made dozens of blocks with my little CNC mill. Some pretty good ones to boot.
http://www.procooling.com/index.php?func=articles&disp=128
http://www.procooling.com/index.php?func=articles&disp=89

Best my little mill can do. I spent about $400USD in copper (before the price quadrupled! about $1600 current price) just to get a couple higher performance blocks. Not to mention 7 years of designs. If performance is your goal then think commercial. It takes very expensive equipment to make a block as good at the Swiftech Apogee series and the Storm series as well with Cooltechnica's block (are they still in business?).

A lot of the technology that those blocks posses came from ideas and designs from the people on this site. So I am not at all embarrassed as proven DIY'er to buy and use one of these blocks as I helped design them. They just made them better with better equipment and more skilled engineers.

However if DIY is your goal you will spend more money in copper alone to make decent blocks than just buying a premade one. However you have the feeling of doing it yourself even if it cost you more and it has less performance.

As for OCforums and Overclockersclub they have decent sites but they are a lot more dumbed down and made more for the average end user. Nothing wrong with that and they will get a lot more traffic. However we developed this site as a cutting the crap and taking a more scientific means to finding real answers to the problems. This has kept the site less popular because people don't like to be told they are incorrect no matter the empirical evidence provided they choose to ignore (I used to be one of those guys).

So the question is if Procooling was to undergo a resurrection what would be the course? Maintain high quality or dumb it down to what normal tech sites do and go for more traffic?

I think the people that made this site what it is would agree with me that maintaining the site as high quality with higher standards is the way to go or just not do it at all. I think that why it has stalled because there are very few people out there with the time and money to do what we consider proper reviews. It takes weeks to do a good review not hours.

I am just speaking my opinion however. If you guys want to turn the place into another half assed mass produced review site like all the others then do what you got to do. I will still hang around and use my mod powers to delete spam and close threads that get out of hand. :D

[Joe]

Jaydee hit it right on the head.... Do it right or dont do it at all!

[ben333]

I want to keep pro cooling advanced also. Give me some power and I can try my best to get the site advertised and maybe get some reviews. I know I just joined but I really love this place... because of the water cooling...
But a few little things like "If we in some way offend you, insult you or your people, screw your mom, beat up your dad, or poop on your porch... we're sorry... we were probably really drunk...
Oh and dont steal our content bitches! Don't give us a reason to pee in your open car window this summer... " I like it and its funny ... but it might offend people... then again it dose spread a positive message -- don't worry too much about what you say. I'm working on a little water project this weekend and I'll have it up here and post a link to it on OC forums... maybe some of the good members will join here... btw, jaydee is your name like the guy in the lench mob? (rap)

[jaydee]

btw, jaydee is your name like the guy in the lench mob? (rap)
No idea what that is as I don't listen to rap. I have been using jaydee or jaydee116 for about 10 years on dozens of forums and sites. J is my first initial D is my second. People always called me JD in school because of a few other people with my first name. JD is to small to create an account so jaydee it was. The first few sites I signed up already had jaydee taken so I added 116 for no particular reason other than getting the acount name approved. :D

[ben333]

cool screen name :D Any of you guys use instand messengers? If you wanted to talk about this site or something I have ideas...

[ben333]

Joe, if you get in contact with me i'd really like to help. Maybe clean up this spam lately, eh?

AIM: coolcat97a, ben333bacc (use first one)
MSN: ben333bacc@hotmail.com
EMAIL: coolcat97a@hotmail.com

[ben333]

So I thought I'd check back into this thread :p Been a member for a while now and its been slow but its been good. I'm a mod now and cleaning up the forums of spam like I said I would lol. I've been talking with Joe and anyway hopefully pro will be getting some new reviewers and I also have been talking to pH a lot and he agreed to be an editor :) So the way I see it things might pick up here the next couple of months. By the way sorry to those waiting on the results of my projects I have up here... I'll finish them this summer I hope!

-- Ben333

[jaydee]

So I thought I'd check back into this thread :p Been a member for a while now and its been slow but its been good. I'm a mod now and cleaning up the forums of spam like I said I would lol. I've been talking with Joe and anyway hopefully pro will be getting some new reviewers and I also have been talking to pH a lot and he agreed to be an editor :) So the way I see it things might pick up here the next couple of months. By the way sorry to those waiting on the results of my projects I have up here... I'll finish them this summer I hope!

-- Ben333
pH is still alive? :uhh: :D

[ben333]

lol barely :D I think he actually told me he lost his password lol!

[jaydee]

lol barely :D I think he actually told me he lost his password lol!
To much WoW for pH! :doh: :D

[ben333]

We need to attach a GPS transmitter to pH's ass..... :D
:D ... I was browsing the forums... again...:hammer:

[pdf27]

BTW, there's someone called Jessie spamming people with PMs about Buddhism. I just got one here (emailed on hence my reappearance after a year or two) and recently got one on another forum.

[ben333]

BTW, there's someone called Jessie spamming people with PMs about Buddhism. I just got one here (emailed on hence my reappearance after a year or two) and recently got one on another forum.
Thanks for the tip :) If he continues I'll tell Joe.

[Joe]

I have to upgrade this damn thing sometime soon... when I do the new patches and facilities will help kill off most of the spammers.

[Brians256]

Thanks, Joe.

[ben333]

I also just noticed something... vBB 3.5.4, I thought we had 3.6.4?

[Marstedt]

I got the Jessie spam too, anyone got a ban-stick?!

[Brians256]

I have one, but I need the exact user name.

[Marstedt]

The exact user name is "Jessie". As mentioned here:

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=14889

[Brians256]

Hmmm... OK. I looked for his name in the user database but did not see it.

[Joe]

I banned someone by that name already today.

[Brians256]

Ah, good! Sounds like it was well deserved.

[ben333]

Wonder why I didn't get a PM. Did get this one a while ago:


Hi,
I'm new here, how's it going?

"Buddhism has the characteristics of what would be expected in a cosmic religion for the future: it transcends a personal God, avoids dogmas and theology; it covers both the natural & spiritual, and it is based on a religious sense aspiring from the experience of all things as a meaningful unity" - Albert Einstein

---
Stephanie
http://www.zendurl.com/stephani

[resago]

intel has a standard for the way a laptop is built like legos.
maybe someone could do a watercooler for a laptop where the rad and pump snap onto the back of the screen and the .25" tubes snake into the laptop in the back.