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-   -   AquaXtreme or MCP-600 R.P.M. Signal Mod. (http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=10969)

Maximilium 12-03-2004 12:06 AM

AquaXtreme or MCP-600 R.P.M. Signal Mod.
 
AquaXtreme or MCP-600 R.P.M. Signal Mod.

Hello people, this is my first mod-guide, hopefully I can make this easy for everybody to understand (English is my second language). First I have to thanks Spiv at www.pc-workshop.net (dead link)for an excellent article on how to get R.P.M. signal from fans without R.P.M cable, after reading this article I study the possibility to use his same principle on water pumps, and the key word was “Hall Sensor”

The Basics:


https://home.comcast.net/~PsySniper/...tor_basics.jpg

Basically all brushless motors use hall sensors. The Hall sensors signal magnet position and polarity information to a logic circuit. This mod will convert the out-put signal of 1 of the hall sensors inside the AcuaXtreme pump (or MCP-600, same pump) into R.P.M. signal to the motherboard.

The parts I used:
ULN2803 Darlington array chip (Jameco #34315)

18 pin IC socket (Jameco #112230)

General Purpose Prototyping Board

Vertical Terminal Blocks


The Circuit:
http://home.comcast.net/~PsySniper/p...ry/Circuit.JPG


I am using this mod on my next computer project (soon to hit a forum near you). I will be using 2 AcuaXtreme pumps. First I took the impeller housing (by doing this you can run the motor without water) and carefully removed the plastic clip that hold the power cables in place at the base of the pump.

http://home.comcast.net/~PsySniper/p...y/100_0669.JPG


Next step, I took apart the back plate, bolted to it you find a circuit board with 3 hall sensors.

http://home.comcast.net/~PsySniper/p...y/100_0665.JPG

This mod will require the out-put signal coming from 1 of the hall sensors. I used the out-put from the middle sensor (yellow cable).

http://home.comcast.net/~PsySniper/p...ump_wiring.JPG

Now just splice, solder a long cable to it and insulate with heat shrink tube and re-wire the cable to the front. Note I did not solder directly to the hall sensor, this may burn the sensor. I put together the pumps without the impeller housing for testing.

http://home.comcast.net/~PsySniper/p...y/100_0670.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~PsySniper/p...y/100_0672.JPG


Next step, I connected everything together.

http://home.comcast.net/~PsySniper/p...y/100_0674.JPG


http://home.comcast.net/~PsySniper/p...y/100_0676.JPG


http://home.comcast.net/~PsySniper/p...rcuit_test.JPG


Both pumps read an average of 4200 R.P.M. with power, and 0 R.P.M. without power, when resistance is applied to the impeller base R.P.M will decrease.

http://home.comcast.net/~PsySniper/p...rpm_screen.jpg


Hopefully this mod can be usefull for some one out there, pleace feel free to
give any advice on how to make this mod better.
Disclaimer:
This mod will void any warranty on your pump. If you want to do it, do it on your own risk.

bigben2k 12-03-2004 04:19 PM

Nice and simple...

BillA 12-03-2004 04:50 PM

if the output of one of the hall effect sensors is removed from the control circuit, the pump WILL become unreliable

this is a fact
this mod may precipitate a longer term failure ?
and no, I do not know what is causing a very few of these sensors to fail
(RMAed an MCP600 this morning for this problem, had been in service 6mos)

be prudent

greenman100 12-03-2004 05:28 PM

he spliced it, he didn't remove the output

DrMemory 12-03-2004 06:13 PM

Why did you use a Darlington pair driver IC. Did the hall effect device require that much gain?

joesgarage11 12-03-2004 06:18 PM

Maximilium, why did you use two separate ICs?

Quote:

when resistance is applied to the impeller base R.P.M will decrease.
I'm having trouble understanding this part. Can you explain?

Maximilium 12-03-2004 06:30 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by unregistered
if the output of one of the hall effect sensors is removed from the control circuit, the pump WILL become unreliable

Just like greenman100 said, I didnt removed any hall sensor output, that will bork the pump. I may update original post to make this clear, I spliced the yellow cable to solder at the cable itself, if you solder directly to the hall sensor you may burn it.

I have been runing this mod for about a week without any problems (brand new pums) and, I have allready 2 pumps(mcp600) runing on my working computer for a year without any problems.

But I have to make 1 thing clear, I only know basic electronics (in other words I don't know how to use a ociloscope ;) ), I just followed the step by step guide from Spiv guide www.pc-workshop.net . First I tried the mod with a 2 cable single fan, after that I made the decition to try it on the New AquaXtreme pumps for my next computer I am building, and I am testing it as I write this.

If for any reason anyone with a lot of electronic knoledge think this mod is bad for the hall sensor at the pump, pleace, let me know why and if there is a safe way to do it.

Maximilium 12-03-2004 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joesgarage11
Maximilium, why did you use two separate ICs?



I'm having trouble understanding this part. Can you explain?

Back when I was testing the ULN2803 on a single fan I had some weird R.P.M variations, I was powering the IC directly from the power suply, not from the motherboard fan conector. It was only when I power the ULN2803 from the motherboard fan conector when I got it working . The uln2803 are cheap (.70 cents each and I order 4 to be exact), just to play safe I end up using 2, 1 IC for each Pump, but you only really need 1.(in theory you can monitor 8 fans/pumps from a single ULN2803 )

When resistance is applied to the impeller base R.P.M will decrease. What I have both pumps runing without the impeler housing ( yes, too lazy to build a test water circuit loop, and if you run the pump without water you will damage the impeler). This pump is a Mag-drive pump , this means that the impeler is moved by the magnet behind the impeler housing . with the impeler housing removed , Powering the motor and (very carefull) using my finguer to stop the base magnet R.P.M. whent from 4200 to 3800.

Maximilium 12-03-2004 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrMemory
Why did you use a Darlington pair driver IC. Did the hall effect device require that much gain?

I follow Spiv guide www.pc-workshop.net , thats the IC chip he used on his guide to monitor R.P.M. from 2 cable fans, I dont know to much about IC, I bet there is a easy to use a smaller simpler chip, but thats too complicated for a Mechanic like me.

I try to teach myself on this stuff searching on the net , I found diferent ways to monitor R.P.M, here I will give you some of the links:

http://www.pc-workshop.net/articles/...mmonitor.shtml
http://tipperlinne.com/fan-tach
http://www.allegromicro.com/sf/3141/

MadHacker 12-04-2004 12:02 AM

This is great...
I have 2 MCP600 pumps...
guess i'll be trying to implement this on at least one of mine...

MadHacker 02-12-2005 12:47 PM

Well I just ordered the parts from Jameco. :D
I'll try this on one of my pumps.
I figure with 2 pumps in series only having one pump with RPM sensoring should be good...
If either pump dies then the RPMs will drop and if I get a leak then the water preasure will drop and the RPM's should go up... :shrug:

I was wondering if anyone else has tried this mod?

MadHacker 03-16-2005 02:02 AM

Well I put it together and it works great:)
next time i take my rad box apart i'll take some pictures of it...
I'm thinking of using my radbox to cool more then one machine..
but now i have a question...
I have the output signal running to my cpu fan header...
if i were to cool more then one machine i'd like it to auto shut down if the pump were to be unpluged..(i have kids).
can I hook up the output of the IC directly to more then one PC's fan header...
one on each machine?

Maximilium 03-16-2005 02:23 PM

Yes , is Posible to conect the IC to another fan header as long the motherboard fan header has rpm monitoring (some motherboards dont support multiple fan monitoring)

As for conecting the signal to 2 diferent motherboards, well I havent try that yet (I will like to see pictures of your rig :D ) , it should be posible I guess, let me know if it works.

MadHacker 03-16-2005 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximilium
Yes , is Posible to conect the IC to another fan header as long the motherboard fan header has rpm monitoring (some motherboards dont support multiple fan monitoring)

As for conecting the signal to 2 diferent motherboards, well I havent try that yet (I will like to see pictures of your rig :D ) , it should be posible I guess, let me know if it works.

I have pitures of my Rad box thread here still have a little bit of work left to do on it...

will post pictures of my case soon...
just got my 6600GT video card today :D
so will be playing with that...

i still have to get more waterblocks for the CPU's of the machines i want to Watercool... only have one... to many things i want to do but not enough time...

was thinking that if i hook up the ouput from the pump to more then one input on the chip... is the output of the pump signal strong enough?
or should i take the output from the chip and feed it back into the next series of inputs of the chip?

i would have isolated outputs for each motherboard this way...
any thoughts?

|kbn| 03-18-2005 01:40 PM

I might do thi for my laing D4, but Im unsure how to get it apart..?

TbirdX 04-09-2005 12:18 PM

Modded my MCP600 today with partial success. Followed the instructions above but for some reason my readings pulse all over the shop, from a low of about 800 to a high of 21000. Not quite sure why that should be.

The cable runs are long though....maybe as much as 1 to 1 and a half metres from the 2803 to the fan header, (external radbox), and the sensor cable runs up along that length with the 12v power cable. Not sure if it's picking up something there maybe? Or could it just be a simple dodgy chip? It's one I salvaged from an old piece of kit laying about our workshop.

I can use what I have for my intended purpose, (emergency shutdown in case of pump failure) but it would be nice to have it right.

Anyone with any ideas greatly appreciated.

Maximilium 04-09-2005 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TbirdX
Modded my MCP600 today with partial success. Followed the instructions above but for some reason my readings pulse all over the shop, from a low of about 800 to a high of 21000. Not quite sure why that should be.

The cable runs are long though....maybe as much as 1 to 1 and a half metres from the 2803 to the fan header, (external radbox), and the sensor cable runs up along that length with the 12v power cable. Not sure if it's picking up something there maybe? Or could it just be a simple dodgy chip? It's one I salvaged from an old piece of kit laying about our workshop.

I can use what I have for my intended purpose, (emergency shutdown in case of pump failure) but it would be nice to have it right.

Anyone with any ideas greatly appreciated.

Try to get the 12v source directly from the motherboard Fan conector, I had a similar problem when I had the chip conected to a regular molex conector coming from the power suply, I hope It helps.

TbirdX 04-09-2005 12:57 PM

Easy enough to test out, I'll give it a shot and let you know, thanks Max :)

TbirdX 04-09-2005 02:35 PM

Nope, still the same :( Tried a different 2803, although still an old one and it still jumps.

MadHacker 04-09-2005 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TbirdX
Modded my MCP600 today with partial success. Followed the instructions above but for some reason my readings pulse all over the shop, from a low of about 800 to a high of 21000. Not quite sure why that should be.

The cable runs are long though....maybe as much as 1 to 1 and a half metres from the 2803 to the fan header, (external radbox), and the sensor cable runs up along that length with the 12v power cable. Not sure if it's picking up something there maybe? Or could it just be a simple dodgy chip? It's one I salvaged from an old piece of kit laying about our workshop.

I can use what I have for my intended purpose, (emergency shutdown in case of pump failure) but it would be nice to have it right.

Anyone with any ideas greatly appreciated.

I don't think wire length has a large factor...
my wire is about 7 feet long...
As for power supply, I'm using a completly diffrent power supply to power the pump and 2803 in my rad box. Then I ran the wire to my PC CPU header on my MB.

The wire I am running from the 2803 to my MB fan header is 2 wire. Where the signal is connected to both the 2803 and the fan header(obviously),
but I have the second wire connected to ground at teh 2803 but not hooked up at the MB header.

So from your description the only reason it isn't working for you maybe non shielded signal wire but mine isn't realy shielded exactly.
So maybe something else is the problem?
Hope some of this info was helpful...

TbirdX 04-09-2005 04:59 PM

It's a pain to be sure. I'll buy a brand new 2803 and see if thats any different. The only reason I salvaged the old ones were to save a 40 mile round trip. Maybe they are duff, although trying 2 of them leads me to believe not.

It only leaves the pump end now really. I wouldn't really mind if it stayed above zero but every now and then it hits zero rpm and triggers the mbm alarm, which kinda negates the whole thing.

Oh well....I'll play a bit and see what I can find.

Maximilium 04-09-2005 06:40 PM

Back when I started this mod I had the same problem, RPM variations, I was thinking to get everything together and put it on the trash can :) .

But I whent back to the diagrams , for some reason powering the IC chip directly from the PSU was the cause of my variation.

It was when I Powered the IC chip from the motherboard the problem whent away, using both negative and positive leads from the motherboard.

You also may want to make sure you have the proper conection at the pump.

TbirdX 04-09-2005 06:58 PM

I did try direct from the mobo but no joy. Still the variation. On the pump front, tbh, I just used the yellow wire as you did. Not sure what the effect would be from getting the wrong wire but I assume I'd get no readings at all??

BTW, that link to spivs site doesn't work for me for some reason. Is it still up??

JSimmons 04-10-2005 05:18 AM

has anyone tried something similar on a D4?

Maximilium 04-10-2005 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TbirdX
BTW, that link to spivs site doesn't work for me for some reason. Is it still up??


It looks like the server whent off line :shrug:


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