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pHaestus 07-26-2004 05:06 PM

Cut it Out??!!??
Ok after several solid weeks (hell years) of reviews with technical problems in them being posted and dissected here, I think we can all see the pattern:

1) Someone posts review here and points out inaccuracy
2) Rest of forum jumps on said review
3) Someone from that site comes here
4) Flamewar commences
5) Overall opinion of Procooling on the web is lowered
6) Lather, rinse, repeat

Is anyone tiring of this yet? I know that I am! Let's try something else ok? The occasional car wreck rubbernecking is ok, but this is like having a slaughterhouse with glass walls across from your porch!

It is clear that you guys have a much greater grasp of water cooling than the average person out there. Hell quite a few of you have a greater grasp of heat transfer theory than I do! But it isn't doing anyone any favors to have constant forum flareups like this. It's slowing me down from getting more productive work done on the site and it's alienating would-be readers. So here is what I propose:

How about it's understood that we think a review sucks and is without technical merit UNLESS we post it? That's right, all the water cooling reviewers of the world can just ASSUME that we believe their equipment is inaccurate, their tests were poorly designed, and their mother's a whore. When we see something posted that's actually GOOD or USEFUL though, we laud it and perhaps even send a hooker or two to the author.

Yes in a perfect world pointing out problems with a review will lead eventually to higher quality reviews and better education of consumers. Yes those are noble goals. Is it actually happening though, or are we just spinning our wheels, isolating ourselves, and getting increasingly frustrated.

I haven't had any of our advertisers complain, and in fact mfgrs are increasingly eager to have their products looked at by me and Procooling. So this isn't motivated by anything other than just a general sick feeling at the negativity that the site is sinking down to of late.

So how about this:

You can't do anything about system testing or generally uncontrolled conditions for water cooling reviewers. You can't make someone care about physics or math or anything else for that matter. You CAN raise the bar by showing how to properly do things properly yourself (and providing clear enough methods for the tests to be repeated by others).

We CAN do something about misinformation being spread around the web (gold having a higher thermal conductivity than silver; water staying in radiator a longer time with low flow means it performs better, there is a cooling advantage to small tubing, it doesnt matter if you add additional blocks to a "low flow" loop, etc etc. I can, and will, revive my "Cooling Myths" editorial section and update it whenever I get another submission. Those articles DO point out flaws and inaccuracies in other site reviews, but they seemed to do so without the inevitable flame wars that come from this forum all the time. We can have a sticky where you guys link inaccuracies and factually incorrect quotes and then I/we deal with them.

But "this review is just shitty" while probably accurate is rarely ever helpful.

It's your forum as much (maybe more) than mine, so if I am way off base here then just tell me to shut the **** up. But from my perspective this is getting old and my preference would be to move on and forward and be more positive.

greenman100 07-26-2004 05:11 PM

but crapping on other people ensure we continue making big money

no big money means we're not big players!

seriously, good idea, good points

pHaestus 07-26-2004 05:13 PM

Well... all the real money's in porn

cougem 07-26-2004 05:15 PM

I wish I had a wife and kid to beat, then I'd be able to make peace

pHaestus 07-26-2004 05:20 PM

"Peace" and "wife and kids" are VERY rarely found in the same sentence

Etacovda 07-26-2004 05:37 PM


Originally Posted by cougem
I wish I had a wife and kid to beat, then I'd be able to make peace


Totally right; problem is, most of the time politely pointing out someones mistakes doesn't work very well most of the time...

joemac 07-26-2004 05:41 PM


Originally Posted by cougem
I wish I had a wife and kid to beat, then I'd be able to make peace

Said wife then leaves you and legally extorts you using “child support” oh and let's not forget the alimony she gets. The better thing to do is have her work in porn (where the money is :D) send the kid to boarding school and be happy. Did somebody say something about testing?

SCompRacer 07-26-2004 05:44 PM


Originally Posted by pHaestus
"Peace" and "wife and kids" are VERY rarely found in the same sentence

Hey, but life is good when the kid(s) leave the nest. The woman’s constantly changing chemistry is the real tough one. :D That usually takes a hysterectomy or a bout with menopause to fix.

I agree with your post. Let’s face it, some members of all forums thrive on conflict. Just stick to the facts and be tactful. Avoid personal insults. If you get insulted, maybe go to war then but not before. Avoid conspiracy theories unless you can prove them. What’s wrong with taking steps to thermonuclear war?

Joe 07-26-2004 05:51 PM

Dude pH! WTF are you doing?! This is the main reason I still associate with the site!!! Its so damn fun to watch retards constantly back track from their arguments made of broken logic, and fantasy physics!

Me I vote to keep learning from others mistakes. and keep treating the rest of the internet like the red headed step child it is :p


pHaestus 07-26-2004 05:54 PM

Keep in mind that if we do convert to porn it's going to be pictures of Joe nekkid!

Joe 07-26-2004 05:54 PM

although if you want this place to be a pr0n site ... I am all for that also infact I will take a greater interest in the site at that point... retards will remain retards and we will get pretty women... sounds like a killer deal!

Ewout_vB 07-26-2004 05:54 PM

Actualy although this topic is quite comic this is the only thing keeping me away from this site half the time.

"'Peace' and 'wife and kids' are VERY rarely found in the same sentence" lol

Joe 07-26-2004 05:55 PM


Originally Posted by pHaestus
Keep in mind that if we do convert to porn it's going to be pictures of Joe nekkid!

Dude WTF, those are pictures between us... if you post those, I will post the ones of you with that poodle

Dont test me bitch!

:p hehe

BalefireX 07-26-2004 05:56 PM

If people put the same effort they put into tearing apart other site's reviews into working on articles for the Watercooling Knowledge base, we'd be able to simply link editors of sites with low-quality reviews to an easy to understand explanation of the facts. This would be a much better way of achieving the goal of promoting a higher standard, as flamewars do nothing but back people into corners, making them increasingly defensive.

Brians256 07-26-2004 06:03 PM

Well, the bashing of other sites doesn't do much for me other than the entertainment value. I don't care much if other sites post foolish reviews, as it certainly doesn't affect me much. Although, the controversy might be what helps me make so much selling 1/2" hoses. After all, any publicity is good publicity, right? I think even Michael Moore would agree, despite him being such a mild-mannered and conflict avoiding man.

If we go the pr0n route, do I get any of the profits? Profits from selling 1/2" hose is not as good as it used to be. It's not even supporting my drug habit anymore.

[edited for humor value]

Tempus 07-26-2004 06:08 PM

Maybe if we give it less attention, it will go away. Just try to only post once or twice and then LEAVE it alone.

AngryAlpaca 07-26-2004 06:09 PM

It actually is quite repetitive. They make the same mistakes most of the time, and few (if any) corrections are made. What's to be done, though?

Joe 07-26-2004 06:12 PM


Originally Posted by Tempus
Maybe if we give it less attention, it will go away. Just try to only post once or twice and then LEAVE it alone.

Didnt they say that about North Korea in the mid 80's, and Germany in the mid 30's?

pHaestus 07-26-2004 06:12 PM

Oh this was partially prompted by a cd I was listening to today. The lyrics were about hip-hop/rappers but it seemed appropriate here too:

"Why not just trade some of your equipment in for somethin you need
Cause there's a, lot of bullshit floodin the scene
Where everybody's a star, but hot shit is few and far between
We losing grip of what garbage means"

from the Roots

Cathar 07-26-2004 06:39 PM


Originally Posted by pHaestus
Well... all the real money's in porn

Well then, maybe you could open up a glass-walled whore-house instead of a slaughter-house across from your porch and set up a few web-cams?

BillA 07-26-2004 07:19 PM

hey, this is a businessman talking
Joe, can you handle steaming video ?

pHaestus 07-26-2004 07:20 PM


Originally Posted by Joe
Didnt they say that about North Korea in the mid 80's, and Germany in the mid 30's?

Yea but I don't think the average web reviewer is of much risk of whipping up a nuclear weapon given the physics mastery demonstrated in the reviews.

jaydee 07-26-2004 07:33 PM

I am up for a p0rn site. I will handle the "teen" section. :D

On another note:

“The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do
nothing.” -Edmund Burke-
By not calling these reviews out are we doing nothing and allowing evil (bad reviews) to prevail?

If we write these articles who's to say we are right and they are wrong? Especially being the average reader will belive anything they are spoon fed? I personally like handing a bad reviwer their ass, but thats just me. I am in either way though. I don't browse other sites anymore unless linked to from here so I don't normally start any of these threads anymore.

pHaestus 07-26-2004 07:48 PM

maybe we could have a quota like my ISP does? If I xfer more than 50GB of data a month I get a call complaining and threatening to turn off service. Maybe we could have some sort of flame war quota? I can see it now:

You got lucky punk; L3D already posted a review this month.

jaydee 07-26-2004 08:47 PM

This is a tough issue though. I think the real problem is how we say things as opposed to what we say.

maybe instead of:
"The guy is a ****ing idiot"

we should use:
"The guy is mentally disturbed and/or brain damaged"

Damn, that might not work either. :shrug:

How about:

"The writer is just not understanding of what he/she is talking about"
That sounds more civil. :dome:

I will work on my approach some. I am generally strait forward with people about what I think of them when in person and transfer that to the net. Seems to me there is a strong bias for being overly polite on the net.

Maybe because net whores generally are incapable of handling the real world and expect to get their ass pampered on the net and generally do and thats why they became a net whore in the first place because they can't handle reality.

Well that didn't sound to civil either.

How about:

Maybe because net addicts generally are overly sensitive to the real world and usually find the people on the net to be more polite to them and thats why they are addicted to the net and get all bent out of shape when they are treated on the net like they are in the real world.

Yeah, that sounds better I guess..

What do you think pH. Is it what we say or how we say it?

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