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-   -   Sick Algae Buildup (http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=6485)

Butcher 04-07-2006 09:36 AM

Re: Sick Algae Buildup
 
Something that's been bugging me for a while...
Lysol and Pine-sol are branded products only available in the US. I'm pretty sure you can get the same stuff under a different name elsewhere, but I'm not sure what they are.
So, am I right in thinking that lysol is a standard household multi-surface cleaner and pine-sol is household disinfectant?

gmat 04-11-2006 05:55 AM

Re: Sick Algae Buildup
 
Good question, i have the same problem, i cannot find these brand names out there, sounds like it's US-only.

bobkoure 04-11-2006 07:59 AM

Re: Sick Algae Buildup
 
From the wikipedia
Pine-Sol
Lysol
Both pages list active ingredients, have links to chemistry, so I won't try to repeat 'em.
There's also pine oils in Dettol, but AFAIK it's just there as a scent. There should be some sort of pine oil disinfectant available.

We don't see Dettol in the States (great stuff for cuts, BTW) - might be interesting to see how that worked as well - just remembering that it's not the same stuff Airsprirt had luck with

RnRollie 05-16-2006 10:13 PM

Re: Sick Algae Buildup
 
I am a god, i am the bringer of life.... :D
... at least if you look at the beginning life soup in my waterloop... :(

i know why, btw. Last time i took the thing apart, i had some trouble getting the pump primed... so.. i blew into the tubes to get enough water between res and pump... big mistake! :doh:

Anyways, since i've been tinkering around the last weeks , in preparation of hooking the whole thing up to the G-loop , it was time to flush/clean it.

And reading this thread brought me to Dettol.... and my experience with it

First flushed the gunk into a container (pickled onions jar :) ), with some clean water behind it. Split that into two jars to do some experiments on it while the loop ran clean water.

One jar got a household (thick) bleach treatment - a scientific measured gulp. Whilst the other jar got its share of dettol (one cap per half pint according to the instructions on the bottle)

Shake well... let rest for two days

Results: both kill lifeforms... big time :evilaugh:

However, it seems that bleach would be better suited for algae then for the kind life if blew into ..euuh life. The dettol mix seems to be more efficient in killing of the life i created. While in both case the dying stuff sinks to the bottom in strings and flocks of amoebic matter, the Dettol mix ended more transparant with more deadwood on the bottom.

I know subjectic observations, but nonetheless.. some result.

So , next steps taken:

Ran the look for several hours with a water/bleach mixture (5-10%), then several hours with a water/dettol mix (1 cap per half pint).

My main problem is that i cant build up enough pressure to *really* flush out the dead stuff that sticks to the rib and cones obstructions in the block unless i hook it up to a high pressure washer.. which i do not feel like doing right now.. besides it will most likely blow a few things apart :D

So, after the flushing/cleaning/desinfecting runs, back to a 'normal' mix:
92 % tetrosyl de-ionised water, the remaining 8% being mainly Dettol, a good few drops of household bleach, a bit of automotive windscreenwasher liquid (a surfractant, making water 'glide' better), and a couple of drops of uv-reactive stuff.

An observation: When you mix the dettol with the water it becomes white/opaque. Over time the water becomes transparant again. I would like to contribute this to the dettol 'eating away' at whatever beginning lifeforms that might be present, but i suspect it is down to evaporation :(
Esspecially since i ran the loop for several hours with an open reservoir to get rid of air/bubbles.
But, in a self-delusional way, one could say that by the time the water becomes clear again, the dettol has done its job. :rolleyes:

Anyways, it seems to work.


Note: yes, i know, i know.. the horror... of using this kind of mixture...: my tubes will melt, big holes will burn in my rads, the pump will become evil incarnate, and GWB will come and liberate my PC from its evil oppressor... :ha:
However... my block is gold plated (in and outside) not plain copper and thus can sustain a serious amount of abuse. The tubes will be replaced with larger ones soon. What it does to the Alu rads, i wouldn't know, i'll find out if they ever come apart. And the pump, yeah well, it wouldn't be the first one to die on me. Thats why for the future i'll be looking to somthing more substancial then those 'hobby-pumps'.

Now, i do not really even want to consider what kind of end result this mixture of chemicals gives... but i know for sure that it can not be healthy to the god that created life. Initially i sat here -in a well ventilated room- with a running nose and watering eyes and a bit of a strange slimy feeling in my throath while the loop ran through its hours of cleaning and the new mix.

Maybe i am oversensitive to dettol, that is possible of course , but i feel like it has been doing more then killing a few germs in my airways :S But of course the nicotine/tar combi that i subject my airways to is probably worse.


If anyone feels like looking up if the mixture of dettol and bleach and windscreen washer and uv-reactive stuff is the new recepy for sarin or mustard-gas, please feel free to do so.

Conclusion: while this mix seems to work, i feel that it might be a bit too agressive (to humans) for practical daily use.


(anyone feel like doing the chemical maths and come up with a 'safe' mix?)

bobkoure 05-16-2006 11:29 PM

Re: Sick Algae Buildup
 
Next time 'round you might want to skip the bleach (it's reactive with copper, likely even more so with aluminum). If it wasn't, I suspect that that's what we'd all be using...
You may have simply had a reaction to the windshield washer fluid, which (here in the freezing-zone part of the 'states at least) typically has methyl alcohol in it as anti freeze. Methyl alcohol evaporates and is not good for you.
Bob
PS: Nice write up!

SiGfever 07-04-2006 12:04 PM

Re: Sick Algae Buildup
 
Add 4-5 drops of non-alcohol iodine to your distilled water loop to prevent biologicals.

http://www.walgreens.com/store/produ...&id=prod385321

unreal 07-26-2006 04:31 AM

Re: Sick Algae Buildup
 
If it hasnt been mentioned, some users over at XS have found good results with scrubbing bubbles removing residue and cleaning there setups without manual work being needed (good for those with long runs of tubing?

Anyways links:
here
and here
http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/4...hingrad3ql.jpg


This ones quite interesting - 6 cleans with vinegar to clear a new rad out: here
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8652/cheers21wl.th.jpg

Brians256 07-26-2006 11:44 AM

Re: Sick Algae Buildup
 
I would never have thought of using that. Interesting.

SiGfever 07-26-2006 06:14 PM

Re: Sick Algae Buildup
 
Be careful, I have read that the can states not to use on brass, it could be an issue. Also the chemical makeup is very tough on blocks and should be flushed until ALL residue is removed before use.

Brians256 07-26-2006 07:32 PM

Re: Sick Algae Buildup
 
It's probably very hard on the gaskets used too. As for warning people to flush it well.... anything that can quickly disolve a fully developed biofilm or calcium deposit has GOT to be a powerful corrosive substance. I wouldn't leave any of the cleaning products that people have suggested in a loop for long. The better it cleans, the faster you'd better get it out of there.

tong 09-07-2006 04:10 PM

Re: Sick Algae Buildup
 
So what's the general concensous(sp?)? Got realy interesting yet no one realy seems to agree on one mjor thing. Oh and sigfever, wouldn't that add a nasty color to the water?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiGfever
Add 4-5 drops of non-alcohol iodine to your distilled water loop to prevent biologicals.

http://www.walgreens.com/store/produ...&id=prod385321


SiGfever 09-08-2006 06:12 PM

Re: Sick Algae Buildup
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tong
So what's the general concensous(sp?)? Got realy interesting yet no one realy seems to agree on one mjor thing. Oh and sigfever, wouldn't that add a nasty color to the water?

Not really, it is such a small amount. But the bugs won't grow. :nod:

dcds1 09-22-2006 05:48 AM

Re: Sick Algae Buildup
 
I have no ideas for you for getting rid of your algea problem. I just wanted to give you an idea of keeping it away once you have cleaned it up. I use distilled water and Redline Water Wetter in my system. I have been using it for a couple of years now with no buildup or damage to anything. I also have a dye in the system as the redline makes the water pink.

SiGfever 11-10-2006 09:14 AM

Re: Sick Algae Buildup
 
Petra's Tech Shop is in the process of testing a new water cooling mixture created by a member (Hound53) over at XS. I know that Marci was sent a sample for testing also so this might be a new alternative to the current choices.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=121705

$+€\/Ø 02-12-2007 03:28 PM

Re: Sick Algae Buildup
 
Um, why not use PT nuke from Petra's? It's basically copper sulphate.

BlueTrin 01-28-2008 04:04 PM

Re: Sick Algae Buildup
 
This thread is one of the most Epic of the Internets !

Great pictures !

Brians256 01-28-2008 05:20 PM

Re: Sick Algae Buildup
 
One concern I remember about copper sulphate is whether it will precipitate out of solution or cause other things to precipitate out of solution. Precipitates could be very good abrasives on the motor and/or insulation on the waterblock or radiator heat exchange surfaces.

In other words, it may not be a slam dunk if you want a maintenance free system.

I think it was telling that the best high-level chemist who was in the watercooling scene used distilled water and a small portion of anti-freeze for maintenance free systems. Hopefully my memory is correct on this point. If pHaestus wants to pop in again, maybe he has an update?

talcum 02-04-2008 07:08 AM

Re: Sick Algae Buildup
 
Hi Bill,
You still lurk here? Anyway, the thing I've found works after the fact is beer line cleaner. It's designed to clean the tap lines of beer stone and slime between kegs. It does remove the slime and stuff, but you'll still have to flush the system to get the bits out. It doesn't dissolve the slime, but I'm not sure I'd want that stuff circulating in my water system anyway. It is safe for metal and hoses.

Cheers,

Bob

Brians256 02-04-2008 07:54 AM

Re: Sick Algae Buildup
 
Biofilms are notoriously tenacious, as they are designed to be. I don't think Bill has anything to do with this forum anymore, though. Sad, though, as he knew a heck of a lot about the subject.

thezfunk 02-13-2008 10:19 PM

Re: Sick Algae Buildup
 
I just have to say that I used the method originally mentioned in the post here and it worked great. It even broke up the residue from my thermochill rad.

ben333 02-14-2008 06:39 AM

Re: Sick Algae Buildup
 
Who? BillA? He was at OC forums a couple of days ago :p I don't think he goes to any forum much anymore

RedPhoenix 04-18-2008 12:36 PM

Re: Sick Algae Buildup
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by $+€\/Ø
Um, why not use PT nuke from Petra's? It's basically copper sulphate.


Whats the concensus with this stuff? Im looking for clean distilled water when I change my water. Im going to avoid UV colors this time around I think. Clear is for me and this seams the closest way.

Brians256 04-18-2008 12:58 PM

Re: Sick Algae Buildup
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RedPhoenix
Whats the concensus with this stuff? Im looking for clean distilled water when I change my water. Im going to avoid UV colors this time around I think. Clear is for me and this seams the closest way.

If you read this thread, then you know that there ISN'T any consensus. I still say that I believe the safest thing for watercooling is to use opaque tubing, 75% distilled water and 25% antifreeze.

All dyes seem to cause precipitation which is hard on the pump and ugly on the tubing. Clear tubing looks good, but light enables the growth of algae. Non-distilled water has minerals that precipitate out onto the waterblock and/or allow galvanic corrosion. Commercial formulas work fine (usually) but cost quite a bit more. This is a recipe for cheap reliability, not ultimate performace or great looks.

For better performance, use 100% distilled water and clean the system out once every 30-60 days (being sure not to have dissimilar metals which will allow galvanic corrosion).

For better looks, use clear tubing, distilled water, and the dye of your choice. Then be prepared to replace tubing as the dye precipitates out onto it and leaves spots. Also, watch your pump to ensure that the preciptates (like sand) don't cause failure. Flush the system and clean it out every 30 days to six months.

Flushing the system is easy. Running the pump with any of the cleaning mixtures you see (hot pine-sol and alcohol is a good combo for me) will help degunk a system that has gotten nasty. You can also put your tubing into very hot (200F/95C) water with dish washing detergent. Let it soak and then rinse it with hot water, then cold distilled water (throwing that last distilled water rinse away before refilling it with your coolant of choice).

mwolfman 06-29-2008 03:49 PM

Re: Sick Algae Buildup
 
OK I know this thread is OLD but this one has to be, takes time to get the “shit”.
My system needs to be cleaned, not for better cooling but the chunks sometimes gets stuck in my pump (starts to vibrate=makes noise=I have to tap on the pump and boost the RPM). The clogging lately have made my pump stop a few times as well… due to extremely low rpms (just so It starts)
I have LONG and BIG gray/brown stuff flowing around the system. The system has been running for (1,5+1,5) 3 years now (20% overclock 24/7). The system was pre cleaned and have been running on distilled water with “D-TEX SuperCool”. Quite funny, this stuff was the best additive at the time, but when I read on the bottle (have 1,5 bottle left) it says nothing about anti bacterial/algae.
My plan now is to clean the system at the same time as I’m changing the computer components (need to make a new holder for my CPU-cooler so that it fits a 775).
I OC an E6600 to 3,6GHz (from 2,4GHz) yesterday and hit the temperature barrier again.
I will post any cleaning progress here with pictures.

PS Have anyone seen any good Northbridge coolers? Or one that can be clamped to the existing heat pipes? DS

Edit: Now the system below is with an Liang something ultra pump an one internal 2*12cm radiator and HL120.3 externally (can bee disconnected). All the fans and the pump is controlled by an m-cube NG-BIG.


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