Pro/Forums - View Single Post - US vs German systems

nightic · 05-24-2004, 11:52 AM

I've been reading these forums for a while now researching a future w/c set-up and whilst it's fair to say that with sufficient time it's possible to find answers to questions I have, there's one particular area that I feel hasn't been covered in any great depth.

This would be the performance distinctions and reasoning between what might be called a European (specifically German ie. 1/4-3/8" ID fittings, multipass tube radiators, small/quiet pumps) set-ups in comparision with more modern, 'extreme' ones (ie. 1/2"+ ID fittings, heatercores, powerful pumps - for brevity I'll herein refer to this as the "US-type").

Going by the level of 'anti-restrictionism' amongst US-type advocates it would appear that these German systems by virtue of their highly restrictive design are hopeless yet many customers (going by activity on some German forums) are happy with them and ever more companies are creating them.

After trawling forums and websites I've come across a (very) small number of comparitive reviews whereby the same components are tested a number of times utilising a variety of different sizes of fitting/tubing etc.

This is obviously a dubious way in which to compare bearing in mind that the equipment that is kept common (usually the pump/rad) in these tests is typically best suited to components which are designed to follow one of the particular philosophies.

The only thing that is clear is that mixing components from each design-type is not a path to good performance.

So the question is can a well-designed system built (exclusively) in the German model perform as well (or near enough) as a no-compromise US-type one or is it doomed to mediocrity?

Can a multipass radiator be more effective than a heatercore when used in 1/4" system?
Do the advantages of using a less powerful (ie. Eheim 1046) pump outweigh the disadvantages in such a system?

It's obvious that the current general consensus amongst the more hardcore is that powerful pumps/large heatercores/ever-increasing diameters of tubing are the way to go and that flow restriction is to be strictly avoided where possible but one must then ask why the Germans persist in refining their seemingly inherently flawed systems? (I do mean this as a question, not a criticism).

Clearly the companies producing these parts have the same abilities to test as everyone else and by looking at some of their kit it doesn't seem they're scrimping on the design, technology or manufacturing front.

It also wouldn't be at all difficult to 'upsize' their components to utilise larger fittings and yet they don't.

Further, there's no shortage of 'hardcore' European overclockers so it's not as though there isn't a market.

Another oft-mentioned rationale is that European systems are optimised for quiet operation as opposed to vigorously overclocked ones but I'm not sure that I buy that.
Many of the components in the loop that that are responsible for the sound level seem to be shared between German and US watercooling rigs (ie. Eheim 1048, low RPM 120mm fans).

It's not my intention that this thread begins yet another discussion about the importance of flow- rates/velocity/pressure/restriction - there are enough of these on this and other forums and thanks to many of the committed members here I think we can agree that this is an area that has been comprehensively examined and explained.

I'd merely like to hear the thoughts and opinions of those who may have practical experience of both types of system.
If the German systems work, how well do they work and why?

PS - For those that don't understand what I mean by "German systems", please take a look at the below sites for examples:

http://www.aquacomputer.de/
http://www.alphacool.de/perl/news.pl
http://www.cool-cases.org/
http://www.watercooling.de

05-24-2004, 11:52 AM	#1
nightic Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2004 Location: London, UK Posts: 38	US vs German systems - advantages/disadvantages? I've been reading these forums for a while now researching a future w/c set-up and whilst it's fair to say that with sufficient time it's possible to find answers to questions I have, there's one particular area that I feel hasn't been covered in any great depth. This would be the performance distinctions and reasoning between what might be called a European (specifically German ie. 1/4-3/8" ID fittings, multipass tube radiators, small/quiet pumps) set-ups in comparision with more modern, 'extreme' ones (ie. 1/2"+ ID fittings, heatercores, powerful pumps - for brevity I'll herein refer to this as the "US-type"). Going by the level of 'anti-restrictionism' amongst US-type advocates it would appear that these German systems by virtue of their highly restrictive design are hopeless yet many customers (going by activity on some German forums) are happy with them and ever more companies are creating them. After trawling forums and websites I've come across a (very) small number of comparitive reviews whereby the same components are tested a number of times utilising a variety of different sizes of fitting/tubing etc. This is obviously a dubious way in which to compare bearing in mind that the equipment that is kept common (usually the pump/rad) in these tests is typically best suited to components which are designed to follow one of the particular philosophies. The only thing that is clear is that mixing components from each design-type is not a path to good performance. So the question is can a well-designed system built (exclusively) in the German model perform as well (or near enough) as a no-compromise US-type one or is it doomed to mediocrity? Can a multipass radiator be more effective than a heatercore when used in 1/4" system? Do the advantages of using a less powerful (ie. Eheim 1046) pump outweigh the disadvantages in such a system? It's obvious that the current general consensus amongst the more hardcore is that powerful pumps/large heatercores/ever-increasing diameters of tubing are the way to go and that flow restriction is to be strictly avoided where possible but one must then ask why the Germans persist in refining their seemingly inherently flawed systems? (I do mean this as a question, not a criticism). Clearly the companies producing these parts have the same abilities to test as everyone else and by looking at some of their kit it doesn't seem they're scrimping on the design, technology or manufacturing front. It also wouldn't be at all difficult to 'upsize' their components to utilise larger fittings and yet they don't. Further, there's no shortage of 'hardcore' European overclockers so it's not as though there isn't a market. Another oft-mentioned rationale is that European systems are optimised for quiet operation as opposed to vigorously overclocked ones but I'm not sure that I buy that. Many of the components in the loop that that are responsible for the sound level seem to be shared between German and US watercooling rigs (ie. Eheim 1048, low RPM 120mm fans). It's not my intention that this thread begins yet another discussion about the importance of flow- rates/velocity/pressure/restriction - there are enough of these on this and other forums and thanks to many of the committed members here I think we can agree that this is an area that has been comprehensively examined and explained. I'd merely like to hear the thoughts and opinions of those who may have practical experience of both types of system. If the German systems work, how well do they work and why? PS - For those that don't understand what I mean by "German systems", please take a look at the below sites for examples: http://www.aquacomputer.de/ http://www.alphacool.de/perl/news.pl http://www.cool-cases.org/ http://www.watercooling.de Last edited by nightic; 05-24-2004 at 02:38 PM.