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Unread 07-20-2001, 07:07 PM   #1
ph
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Default Chipset Block - will it improve or derate system?

I have a Maze 2 cooling block on the CPU, and am contemplating to add Danger Den's North Bridge block in series with it. The flow would go - CPU/Maze 2, North Bridge/DD, reservoir (home built from electrical box), Eheim 1250, Black Ice. 3/8" tubing and water wetter. No Peltier. My concern is that the additional restriction created by the second block may cause more harm than good, actually possibly derating the cooling of the CPU. I can cool down the North Bridge other ways. Since it is quite a chore to add the additional block into already installed and running system, including Epoxying the block in - forever, I'd really appreciate your advice on the odds.

BTW, I am new at this, but I did recently gain a bit of experience. I didn't fasten the Maze 2 down properly - maybe somewhat unevenly - the plastic bolts are hard to access at the corner against the cabinet back and the Power Supply, maybe not too tight, but it wasn't really light either. The result was that I was running idle at high 60's deg C at the CPU. I was quite frustrated (several days), but eventually tightened the bolts much harder and now the system idles at 8 deg C above ambient. This is amazing - over 30 deg C difference! Just thought I'll mention this if someone struggles the way I did.

Again, please let me know on the second block.

Thanks.
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Unread 07-21-2001, 03:00 AM   #2
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I'm not willing to comment on the northbridge (I'm just running a lapped Blue Orb on an A7V133), but I know what you mean about improper mounting.

My system was running great, then I got one of the 198mhz "new SE" Radeons, and moved the waterblock to install. My waterblock is polished and I use a fine amount of Arctic Silver II. Well, lets just say 60c is lucky, I've got a scorch mark on the warranty sticker, and of course one AMD keychain.

I think the Danger Den mount is awesome, but I used stiff hose (braided PVC) and it rocked the block on an edge. Saved 1.50/ft over silicon to buy a new CPU .
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Unread 07-21-2001, 04:19 AM   #3
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I'm not sure how this will work but this is what I am planning to do.

Components:
Blocks:
1 X DD MazeII
2 X oc-wc 40mm blocks (chipst and geforce II pro 64ddr)

Pump:
Magdrive 3 350

Res:

4"X4"X4" Reservoir

Radiator:

Black Ice Rad

Tubing:

PVC 3/8 id, 1/2 o/d
PVC 1/4 id, 3/8 od

Connectors:

All high flow connectors from liquidcool.org

I plan in going from res to pump with the 3/8 id tubing,to the rad then going out the rad and splitting via a "T". One flow continueing to use the 3/8 id to the CPU, the other reducing down to the 1/4 id for the small blocks. The GPU first then the north bridge. Both splits will reenter the res by themselves, with their respective size tubing.
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Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently.

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Unread 07-21-2001, 11:47 PM   #4
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Don't mean to break any rules here by posting twice....

I'd really like some feedback on the idea.

Thanks
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Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently.

Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)
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Unread 07-21-2001, 11:56 PM   #5
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not too sure. Your best bet is to use a splitter such as a 'T'. It may or may not slow your flow rate down. My opinion, give it a shot and tell us how it works. I plan on cooling the chipset too. Right now, I'm working on the videocard =]
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Unread 07-22-2001, 12:59 AM   #6
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A T might be better if you were willing to play with flowrates. Since I don't have anyway to check flowrates other then checking chip temps I wouldn't bother. Instead I'd just go all inline. Figure running water through the CPU only increases its temp a few degrees if you have good flow. Thats maybe a 3C higher NB/GPU temp then with the T.

Meanwhile you aren't depriving your CPU of any flow.
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Unread 07-22-2001, 02:16 AM   #7
ph
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This is PH with additional info and a question. I am concerned that I have a restricted flow problem already. I can bring the CPU temperature down some 4 - 7 deg C. (depending on load) when I point strong, 12cm fan at the Maze 2. The CPU temperature changes only about 1 degree when I add the same fan in series with the Black Ice (on the other side of the radiator, from the existent fan)and increase the air flow through the radiator significantly. To me that means that the liquid through the block doesn't take away all the calories it could. Adding another restriction (northbridge block) in series, would seem to make things worse. Adding a split would still make things a little worse because the pressure into the Maze 2 would be smaller, since part of the "current" splits to the northbridge (or Graphics card) cooling block. Is this theory correct? Please share your experience. I'd be very grateful. Right now I am inclined to cooling of the northbridge using fan with peltier, add a fan to blow at the block, and build a 1/2" circuit one day. Any comment on that?
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Unread 07-22-2001, 05:02 AM   #8
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Definetly ensure you have a flat mount of the maze 2, this cost me a chip already (as my stiff PVC braided hoses where rocking the block on edge ever so unnoticably).
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Unread 07-22-2001, 09:50 AM   #9
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I've probably gone a little overboard with my water-block builds, (but I always do). I'm now down to just two fans in the system both of which are in the PSU running at 5v. My goal is a fan free silent system.

Here's some of the blocks I modified and made:- (chipset block shown last which I soldered tabs on to so I could attach it via the two holes on the mobo that the standard
HSF uses.)




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Unread 07-22-2001, 11:26 AM   #10
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Those blocks are damn good.

Ever thought of selling those blocks, look a lot better than some of the production models out there. I'd buy from you, if your selling.

The waterblocks on the vid card must put quite a load on the agp slot/vid card. Do you have a custom bracket or does it just take the load.

Damn I wish I was that skilled.
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Unread 07-22-2001, 11:59 AM   #11
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Thank you for your advice GuyBFF. BladeRunner, your skills are out of this world, both in the cleverness of the design as well as the workmanship - bravo! Also the idea of very quiet design would be of primary interest to me. Honestly, I was expecting much quieter performance of the H2O cooling system than I am getting. The Eheim pump is very quiet, but the 12 cm radiator fan is rather loud. If I now add other fan's to cool the case, the noise will be approaching that of an air cooled system. I have couple of questions. How do you route the hoses through the blocks? Is series? You've said that you have just two 5V fans in the PSU. Don't you force air through the radiator? Please let me know more if you have the time. I am truly very impressed with your goals and results.
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Unread 07-22-2001, 12:12 PM   #12
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sounds like what you need to do is slow your fans down. I have 2 120mm sunon extra thick fans on my rad one on each side, I run them @ 7v and they are inaudible. the airfolw through the rad is very good too!

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Unread 07-22-2001, 01:27 PM   #13
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Thanks guys and Ph I don't want to take over your topic here, but sorry I'm an image junkie

I'd really love to have the ability to make these items for sale but they were made with pretty basic equipment and not something I could quickly or easily repeat.

Build details here for those who are also image junkies like me :-

<A HREF="http://discussions.hardwarecentral.com/Forum11/HTML/015803.html" TARGET=_blank>Asus v8200 GF3 Ram w/b build, ( just call me Rotor ;-)
</A>


Asus v8200 GF3 water-cooling part 2 (GPU)

I'm using geo-thermal cooling which is silent, (should give 8°C to 10°C coolant when finished in my location UK) requires no fans and is totally silent at the PC, (although not noisy the pump would be the only item producing noise in this system, but will be mounted far away from the PC)

Check this topic for full details. http://forums.procooling.com/ubbcgi/...c&f=2&t=000433

The trouble with removing the forced airflow in a PC is items that may not normally get hot could. I'll be watercooling the PSU next so If you don't here from me expect the worst
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Unread 07-22-2001, 02:29 PM   #14
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absolutely beautiful work on the ram cooling. Perhaps in my next article I can offer you a better way to cool the gpu. If not better, a little easier than having to solder that piece. At any rate, beautiful work. You rounded the edges of the aluminum by drilling small holes along your intended line, then cutting it with a hacksaw? Wow, so much work. Where is that ten thousand dollar milling machine when we need it!?!
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Unread 07-22-2001, 02:35 PM   #15
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by the way, isn't aluminum such a joy to work with after you've been laboring with copper for several hours ? =]
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Unread 07-22-2001, 02:36 PM   #16
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all I gotta say is thats DAMN impressive!!

Awesome job!
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Unread 07-22-2001, 02:38 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by redleader:
A T might be better if you were willing to play with flowrates. Since I don't have anyway to check flowrates other then checking chip temps I wouldn't bother. Instead I'd just go all inline. Figure running water through the CPU only increases its temp a few degrees if you have good flow. Thats maybe a 3C higher NB/GPU temp then with the T.

Meanwhile you aren't depriving your CPU of any flow.
Thnaks for reply redleader.

Quick question:
Which way would facilitate highest flow through cpu block.
1) All inline with 3/8 id tubing until it gets to the small blocks(that use 1/4 id tubing).

2) Split after radiator one with 3/8 id for cpu and going back into res independently of the other split. The other split getting reduced down to 1/4 id then going through nb/gpu then returning to res independently.

Any other opinions or thoughts?

Thanks
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Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently.

Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)
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Unread 07-22-2001, 02:42 PM   #18
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one more question bladerunner, are all those bolts on the ram block tapped? Or are you using some sort of sheet metal screws?
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Unread 07-22-2001, 02:44 PM   #19
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badly_wired, I do not like the idea of running multiple blocks off of one inline system. I think you are better off using a distribution block of some sort.
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Unread 07-22-2001, 03:10 PM   #20
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Yeah I agree that a manifold is the better solution.... I made this temporary one for mine.



I'm not overly happy with the "Barbs" & plastic pipes, so when I'm happy with the layout I'll be using pneumatic fittings throughout. They are rated a 10 bar and can be easily disconected if required.



ondaedg

Yeah copper can be a pain in the ass to work with. It's not too bad when you know what you can get away with. Does polish up beautifully though

All the retaining holes for the copper baseplate were drilled & tapped with an, (easy to snap) M2 tap. much care required.

Let me know on the GPU block project, I'm always keen to learn new tricks
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Unread 07-22-2001, 03:22 PM   #21
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Man bladerunner your my hero! Those are the nicest homemade or production pieces I've ever seen. The best part is how you made them look so CNC'd yet you labored with a drill and file. I though I got anal about making stuff in my garage. Your new inspiration, thanks!
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Unread 07-22-2001, 06:20 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by ondaedg:
badly_wired, I do not like the idea of running multiple blocks off of one inline system. I think you are better off using a distribution block of some sort.
Isn't a T connect a sorta distribution block? I'll be using high flow connectors similiar to those pnuematic ones in the pic. I got them from www.liquidcool.org . The only diff is these are plastic.

Where can i pick up gear like that. I would lobve to have a dist. block like that.

Thanks
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Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently.

Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)
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Unread 07-22-2001, 10:12 PM   #23
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BladeRunner:

Simply awsum final products,

Please post temperature results, along with Ambient temperature.

The work is like jewlery with a function.

Cheers Amy - www.amycroft.com
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Unread 07-22-2001, 10:30 PM   #24
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Well putting 1/4 anything in your system will kill your flowrate. So if you do go with inline and already have 1/4 inch blocks, I'd put the T after the water block. That way it splits the 3/8 into two 1/4 inch lines running in parallel. Each line would get half the flow, but I think it will be plenty. With a modest sink nearly any modern chipset or GPU can be cooled passively, so I think you would be fine.
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Unread 07-23-2001, 05:16 AM   #25
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I'm probably going to get banned from here as I can't seem to post anything without using pics

Anyhow, I'll be using some of these eventually, (pic is link to larger image)



Until then I made some simple ones:-



Go to www.parkerhydraulics.co.uk and get a Flowtech cataloge sent out. I posted the pic from the catalogue as the site has no pics. I also get the daily "Darwin Award" for spending 20mins trying to get my POS scanner to work when I realised I can just take a pic of the page with the camera.....

Remember the inlet specs that are in "BSP" are Inside Diameter. So a 1/4 bsp refers to the ID of the pipe not the OD.

Amy

Here's the card temps using Asus Smart Doctor before & after, (coolant @ 14°C), ambient was around 27°C to 28°C at the time but it doesn't make alot of difference.

Before standard card with Asus heatsinks & fan @ 230/530


After with GPU & Ram blocks at 250/550 and coolant about 14°C


and CPU temps:-

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