C-systems pump failure

[mikehotel]

Well, I got a little surprise in the mail today; the pump that I RMA’ed to C-systems made it’s way back to me, it wasn’t repaired and still didn’t work, and since I had already received a replacement pump I decided to crack it open and see why the pump failed….as you can see below, the shaft seal leaked into the motor housing and caused enough corrosion to seize the motor and burn it out…or the water shorted the motor out, no way to tell. Judging from the rust and the build up it was a slow leak that killed it. Good thing the 1st series of pumps had the motor housings marine gooped together and were water tight….such is not the case now. Moral of the story: C-systems pumps are crap, they are a time bomb waiting to zap your system, the shaft seal is poor, the aluminum is prone to corrosion, and the company back pedals away from their products with disclaimers. below photo's how a pump in use for 3 months, with distilled water and hydrocool anti-freeze @ 3-5%

[DryFire]

Ouch, that doesn't look pretty.

[flatline]

lets hope the replacement u have dont go the same way

[pHaestus]

Was this part of that big group buy of the first batch of pumps that C Systems sold directly to someone? I am a little confused by your post: Did C System return the pump to you w/o repair, or did it get returned to you via the post w/o reaching C Systems?

//edit: Was this pump submerged or something in the filling/setup process? It looks horrible.

[psychofunk]

Idiots! If they would just STFU and take suggestions they could have a real kick ass product. :shrug: .

[mikehotel]

I bought this pump right from C-systems after they "Broke" with the mod the box review, I returned the pump after it stopped working in September, after I had it in use about 3 months, then after a bit of a struggle got a new Black mark 2 pump in the mail....this one just popped up today in the mail. It was in the box I sent it out in, and had been opened, it was never submerged, spilled on......nothing, just normal use. It looks like crap.....Thank god that it didn't leak in my shuttle.

[Roscal]

A major part of CSP from a big order (~100) in France are dead (or going to be) and good for the garbage (some are dead within 2 hours). Poor engineering, poor quality, poor pumps... You have the explanation for a such low price now !

[nikhsub1]

So much for a decent MTBF...

[Dave]

Hello Mike, as you indicated, we never received your pump.
Looks like it got lost in the mail somewhere,.

Good to know you recieved the replacement

What your seeing is not "rust", but silicon deposits caused by the sealant.

We only used this sealant on the first 40 units, all others have a gasket or o-ring on the motor case.

Let me know if you have any problems with your new unit

Dave

[mikehotel]

Silicon Deposits? You have got to be kidding me….That is the biggest load of crap I have ever heard. The pump seal leaked, the motor and internals rusted, the marine goop you used to seal the pump housing was the only thing that stopped your product from zapping my computer. I am a Aircraft maintainer guy, I know corrosion when I see it.

[Etacovda]

lol, not rust?

Maybe at a lesser forum, but not here. I mean come on, do you really give us that little credit?

[pHaestus]

Send me the pump or scrape off the deposits and I'll tell you its chemical composition. I have XRD, FTIR, FT Raman, XRF, and bulk chemical analysis techniques (AA, ICP) in my lab and readily available for interesting questions such as this . There's no need to make any allegations until we see what's what. FWIW aluminum oxide deposits wouldn't be orange, and I don't know why there would be enough iron in the loop to make ferric hydroxides (which are orange/brown). If it is a rust then where'd it come from? The magnets I guess?

[Tempus]

way to whip out the chemistry pH! Gotta love it when big brain thumping comes out.

mike, please send him a sample so I know if my pump is safe.

[Tos]

I'm curious about the results, and will be monitoring this thread ...

( I'm a "not-so-happy" owner of 2 CSP750 pumps, which have not yet seen a drop of water due to the - too much - reports of early failure )

Off Topic : Dave - I'm still waiting for the replacement top you promised me, I'd like to know what the delay could be ... I've sent you a mail

[lolito_fr]

If it is rust then where'd it come from?

Motor housing could be bare steel...
If it was the silicone (edit: that caused the corrosion) I wouldn't be surprised
(Have seen it "tarnish"? galvanised bolts in my wb's while the stuff cures)

[Etacovda]

Looks very much like rust to me - that housing looks like steel.

[lolito_fr]

Just to clarify: I have no idea what Dave means by "silicon deposits", what I was saying was that the rust may have been caused by the silicone releasing acetic acid whilst curing.
(this would explain why they now use a gasket rather than silicone sealant)
Just trying to be objective

[mikehotel]

I would love to send you the pump, however I am in the midst of a move right now, and I won't have the pump again for about 2-3 months depends on when my shipment gets to the USA. I am sure we will see some more rusted pumps in the future, just a matter of time.

[HammerSandwich]

Another one bites the dust! Two actually. A friend's is dead; mine still ran but had water in the motor housing. These are both from the first run of black, DTEK pumps. I'm just happy everything ran long enough for my DDC to get here.

Dave, if you want me to send this to you, send me a PM.

[allnighter]

Well, it seems that mkI's are somewhat of a questionable quality. I am running somewhat of a torture test of the two MkII in separate loops, in a makeshift radbox (just in case). The pumps have been running for a full month, today, without shutting off, and so far not a single change in sound let alone a failure (crosses fingers). So I'm going to try to contribute to this thread with a drop of optimism.
Right now I'm debating whether I should run these 'til they give up and than open them up and take a look inside or maybe finally turn them off and inspect the innards. The thing is I just can't do that this weekend. To busy with other things. Maybe next week. We'll see.

[MaxxxRacer]

pH, has anyone told you ur nuts.. and in a very good way :

Mike, that adds another failed c-systems pump to the list. It sucks it had to be you though. Hopefully when you get the block back you can send a sample to ph so we can actually see if the c-systems guy is being truthful.

[PaulDriver]

Once again, I am saved by my glacial slowness, I've been considering replacing my old petsmart pond pump ( It's in a 4x4x2 marine box jammed into a dual 3.5" bay and will be 4 years old, January 17th 2005 ).

Looks like I'll be skipping a C-Systems pump.


I'm in no hurry to decide these things after all I'm still running a BeCooling Jagged Edge

[DryFire]

If it aint broke don't fix it.

[cloaked]

Originally Posted by DryFire

If it aint broke don't fix it.

that looks sufficiantly broken...

I don't think that is the right thing to be saying to people running these pumps now though.
If you are using something with a known problem wouldn't it be better to make sure it is fine than wait until it breaks inside $1k or whatever of equipment?

So in short, to continue your use of 1 line sayings: better safe than sorry

[JoeKamel]

I think he meant don't replace the old pump yet as its still working fine.