Why does this "new" heater core look like crap??

TitaniumZX · 07-02-2003, 06:39 PM

Here's a pic of a Chevette heater core I picked up for $23. Why does thing thing look so ugly?? I asked the clerk at O'Reilly's and he assured me it's new and lifetime warranty. Also, I want to replace the inlet and outlet w/ some 3/8" barbs but I'm not familar w/ "brazing" or "welding" pipes. Can anyone enlighten me? Thanks.

pissboy · 07-02-2003, 06:46 PM

its copper and lead, I dont know what else it would look like?

TitaniumZX · 07-02-2003, 06:52 PM

I'm guessing it could look a little newer. It looks like it was pulled from a junkyard, boxed and sold to me. Guess I'll just sand it down and paint it if that is how it's supposed to look. Thanks.

hydrogen18 · 07-02-2003, 07:13 PM

as mentioned the outside is mainly lead and brass....the copper that does the conducting is internal in the honeycomb structure. U can shine it up if u wanna. Soldering is waht u need to do btw. Grab a propane torch kit(comes with solder)and some pipe and fitting to practice with before u solder onto it though.

Al Kaseltzer · 07-02-2003, 10:52 PM

That thing is supposed to go on the Inside of a Chevette. If you owned a Chevette, would you want to pay more for prettier engine parts ? Any manufacturing process That uses lots of heat, like soldering, brazing and welding will cause metal to tarnish (oxidize) Cleaning would add a few buck to the price. There's no significant effect on performance, might as well leave it ugly.

MadDogMe · 07-03-2003, 02:58 AM

No wonder people buy Japanesse cars!, What a peice of shit!. I have a HC pulled out of 15year old car that looks better (well NOT actualy worse then

). I'd take it back and tell him it's for a custom project and could he have a look through to see if he can find a better one. The tarnish is probably where it's been damp on the shelf for an age. It's only us hand soldering monkeys that tarnish the whole peice cause we don't know when enough heat's enough!

...

Khledar · 07-03-2003, 03:32 AM

For $23 you're probably not getting the manufacturer's own part, this could also contribute to some "less than perfect" construction. As Al Kaseltzer mentioned this is for the inside of a car, most people don't even open their hoods - and saving 35 bux or so is always nice.

But get some good chemical cleaners - looks like some mineral type buildup to me - this does happen - there is lead on the edges which is also normal - you can sand it down and shine it up, but it won't magically change color or anything, that's why most radiators (for WC) are painted.

Prlwytkovsky · 07-03-2003, 10:54 AM

I've seen a lot of differences in "new" heatercores. I went to Pepboys once and was shown a "new" heatercore with quite a bit of kettlestone in it. Other heatercores differ a lot in quality as well. Some soldering jobs are plain messy, others are perfect. Yours has quite a bit of oxidation and a really messy soldering job.

bigben2k · 07-03-2003, 11:11 AM

Here's a cleaning tip I got, from my RC magazine:
make a solution of water and antifreeze, warm it up, and let the part dip in it for a while.

It was meant to clean burnt fuel and oil residue.

It's a messy process, and not without dangers. The pot used will not be re-usable for cooking btw

#Rotor · 07-03-2003, 04:59 PM

vinegar does wonders for the way an ugly looking heater core presents itself. it's just the chemicals and fluxes they use to make them, that makes it look so bad...

supz · 08-06-2003, 02:27 AM

Titanium,

I also just purchased the same heatercore, and I'm trying to do the same thing you are doing. So far I have found the following web pages:
http://www.overclockers.com/tips250/
http://www.phlux.co.uk/articles.php?aid=7&page=1
http://www.overclockers.com/tips1022/

They mention cleaning briefly. The part that I'm a bit confused on what to do about, is cutting off the pipe and getting it to work with my 1/2 OD, 3/8 ID vinyl tubing. I can't seem to find any couplings or barbs that will fit onto the end of the inlet/outlets, to be soldered. If I find out anything else, I will PM you.

Good luck

msv · 08-06-2003, 03:24 AM

I got my DD heater core yesterday (the days of my BI Micro are counted, or rather; counting), and it wasn´t exactly pretty either.
It has 1/2" hoses soldered on it, so someone has put effort to adapt it for computer use, but no effort to make it look any better than a piece of crap.
Strange.
I´ll test that vinegar tip tonight.
Expect some bitchy elbow ache whining from me tomorrow.
regards
Mikael S.

redleader · 08-06-2003, 11:46 AM

Quote:

The part that I'm a bit confused on what to do about, is cutting off the pipe and getting it to work with my 1/2 OD, 3/8 ID vinyl tubing.

Check out a plumbing supplier or Acehardware. Its just a common soldered fitting. They cost ~50 cents and have NPT threading on the other end.

BrianW · 08-06-2003, 02:25 PM

The heater core is beautiful, you just need to give it a make over:

Here are some pics:

Unmodified:

Barbs cut, and tanks sanded:

Dry fitting of copper pieces:

After soldering:

And after another rounf of sanding:

For more pics: http://thengc.net/images/watercooled...eg-press/Pics/

Prlwytkovsky · 08-06-2003, 02:35 PM

Nice job. Did you take any precautions when you soldered those fittings on ? I would be afraid that other parts get loose when you heat one of the pipes. I'm planning to use JBWeld to be on the safe side. (I'm not that confident that I could pull a job like this off).

BrianW · 08-06-2003, 03:11 PM

Hmmn: precautions, well I always try and be as safe as possible:

Brian

supz · 08-06-2003, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by redleader
Check out a plumbing supplier or Acehardware. Its just a common soldered fitting. They cost ~50 cents and have NPT threading on the other end.

I've been to 3 different hardware stores (2 Home Depots, 1 Sears Hardware) and it seems nobody has any parts that I need.

I've looked for the following, unsuccessfully:
- fitting with a 3/8 barb and a 5/8 ID to solder onto the heater core
- 1/2 inch female threaded end with a 5/8 ID end to solder onto the heater core
- Anything with a 5/8 ID fitting to solder onto the heater core.

Home Depot was pretty messy, so they may have had it, and I just didnt look in the right place.

Am I looking for the totally wrong thing?

BrianW · 08-06-2003, 03:58 PM

The original barbs listed on my heater core above is listed as 5/8". After cutting them down past the flanges, you will have a pipe size that will accept a 1/2" Pipe to 1/2" female threaded NPT fitting showed in the pics I posted above. The T piece above also fits over it perfectly. Both will have a little play, but nothing some flux, and some silver solder wont fill. So basically any fitting that on one side accepts 1/2" pipe will work.

Hope it helps,

BrianW

hydrogen18 · 08-06-2003, 05:49 PM

the vinegar tip works wonders, its what i did.

i never knew the plumbing fittings from home depot were NPT btw

supz · 08-06-2003, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BrianW
The original barbs listed on my heater core above is listed as 5/8". After cutting them down past the flanges, you will have a pipe size that will accept a 1/2" Pipe to 1/2" female threaded NPT fitting showed in the pics I posted above. The T piece above also fits over it perfectly. Both will have a little play, but nothing some flux, and some silver solder wont fill. So basically any fitting that on one side accepts 1/2" pipe will work.

Hope it helps,

BrianW

Unfortunately (maybe) I went to home depot, for a third time, and picked up some parts before I was able to read your reply.

Take a look at these and tell me what you think. I already dremelled off the 3/4 flange from the one pipe on the heater core, and the top piece fits over it fine.

Will this work or should I return them and go with 1/2?

I dislike these parts because it uses a 3/8 barb and there is a bit too much potential for leaking, I think. I would much rather go with quickconnects connected to some kind of reducer, as they will match the rest of my watercooling system, and also won't restrict the inner diameter of the tubing, like the barb will.

Also, could somebody tell me what all the NPT and MIP and such things mean?

Thanks

BrianW · 08-06-2003, 06:37 PM

You do not want MIP, it is for compressed fittings. Get the part i mentioned, and you will be happy. 1/2" Pipe to 1/2" Female NPT.

As far as explaining MIP, do not worry, as far as explaining NPT (National Pipe Thread), i'll give it a try.

NPT is sometimes confused and intermixed with copper and plastic pipe sizing(unthreaded pipe pieces).

Pipe sizing measurement describes the smallest ID dimension for a particular family of sizes. IE: 1/2" pipe parts will all work with eachother, and all their smalles ID dimensions will be approx. 1/2". The pipe itself is closest to this standard. The connectors, ie: elbows, converters, t's all will accept the 1/2" pipe. The 1/2" pipe will slip into the connectors.

NPT is used to describe the thread sizes of parts that sometimes are used with pipe and sometimes with barbs. For instance we generally see waterblocks with 1/4" MALE NPT X 1/2" Barb. The barb is measured by what hose will fit over it, so it is actually larger than 1/2" in diameter. Depending on the manufacturer the id of the NPT side will be anywhere from 1/4 to 2/8".

Hope it helps,

BrianW

CoolROD · 08-06-2003, 08:32 PM

The I.D. of NPT pipe, nipples, couplings, bards, etc. is not specified -It depends on the product's intended usage or how heavy the pipe's wall needs to be. All NPT fittings have a maximum male O.D. , a certain thread pitch, and a recommended thread length for proper engagement. There is a taper of ~ 3.1/2 Deg. (3/4" per foot or 3.577 Deg.) on the male and female threads that causes a wedge-like engagement of the threads.

Teflon tape is not a sealant -it is a lubricant.

It reduces friction in the joint and allows the pipe to be tightened further where the interference fit creates the seal.

Properly made pipe fittings should turn 2-3 or 2.1/2 - 3.1/2 turns by hand -depending on who you ask / intended usage, materials, etc.

supz · 08-06-2003, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BrianW
You do not want MIP, it is for compressed fittings. Get the part i mentioned, and you will be happy. 1/2" Pipe to 1/2" Female NPT.

As far as explaining MIP, do not worry, as far as explaining NPT (National Pipe Thread), i'll give it a try.

NPT is sometimes confused and intermixed with copper and plastic pipe sizing(unthreaded pipe pieces).

Pipe sizing measurement describes the smallest ID dimension for a particular family of sizes. IE: 1/2" pipe parts will all work with eachother, and all their smalles ID dimensions will be approx. 1/2". The pipe itself is closest to this standard. The connectors, ie: elbows, converters, t's all will accept the 1/2" pipe. The 1/2" pipe will slip into the connectors.

NPT is used to describe the thread sizes of parts that sometimes are used with pipe and sometimes with barbs. For instance we generally see waterblocks with 1/4" MALE NPT X 1/2" Barb. The barb is measured by what hose will fit over it, so it is actually larger than 1/2" in diameter. Depending on the manufacturer the id of the NPT side will be anywhere from 1/4 to 2/8".

Hope it helps,

BrianW

It helped more than you could know. I went to home depot, looking for the 1/2 1/2 fittings and they had none... I was shocked. So I went to another home depot, and they had them, but only one of them. I searched through all the boxes there (there probably was another one somewhere) but I found a 1/2 x 3/8 one, which was also fine for me, since they make quick connects with 3/8 male ends. I picked up two of those, and the quickconnects.

I cut off the ends of on the heater core, and filled up a bucket of water to put the fin part of the heater core into while soldering, and now I'm just waiting for my brother to help me out with the actual soldering part.

Thanks everybody for your help, once again.

I'll post back when I finish

supz · 08-06-2003, 10:44 PM

I'm almost done! Pictures here: http://www.supz.org/heater%20core%20project/

CoolROD · 08-06-2003, 10:48 PM

Nice work -that looks like something

. I am ready to see some pics of it in a system! Do you have the fan / mount figured out?

07-02-2003, 06:39 PM	#1
TitaniumZX Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: USA Posts: 2	Why does this "new" heater core look like crap?? Here's a pic of a Chevette heater core I picked up for $23. Why does thing thing look so ugly?? I asked the clerk at O'Reilly's and he assured me it's new and lifetime warranty. Also, I want to replace the inlet and outlet w/ some 3/8" barbs but I'm not familar w/ "brazing" or "welding" pipes. Can anyone enlighten me? Thanks. __________________ Epox 8RDA+ Rev. 1.1 w/ C1 NB XP 1700+ T'bred B (OC'ed 2564MHz) SLK 800A w/ 92mm fan Samsung PC-2700, 256MB X 2 ATI Radeon 9500 converted to 9700 Pro Windows XP Pro WDC 100 GB 7200RPM Sony Trinitron 19" & 17" KDS TFT LCD Logitech iFeel Optical Mouse

07-02-2003, 06:52 PM	#3
TitaniumZX Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: USA Posts: 2	I'm guessing it could look a little newer. It looks like it was pulled from a junkyard, boxed and sold to me. Guess I'll just sand it down and paint it if that is how it's supposed to look. Thanks. __________________ Epox 8RDA+ Rev. 1.1 w/ C1 NB XP 1700+ T'bred B (OC'ed 2564MHz) SLK 800A w/ 92mm fan Samsung PC-2700, 256MB X 2 ATI Radeon 9500 converted to 9700 Pro Windows XP Pro WDC 100 GB 7200RPM Sony Trinitron 19" & 17" KDS TFT LCD Logitech iFeel Optical Mouse

07-03-2003, 03:32 AM	#7
Khledar Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: North Vancouver BC Posts: 234	For $23 you're probably not getting the manufacturer's own part, this could also contribute to some "less than perfect" construction. As Al Kaseltzer mentioned this is for the inside of a car, most people don't even open their hoods - and saving 35 bux or so is always nice. But get some good chemical cleaners - looks like some mineral type buildup to me - this does happen - there is lead on the edges which is also normal - you can sand it down and shine it up, but it won't magically change color or anything, that's why most radiators (for WC) are painted. __________________ "mooooo" said the cow. ERTW - UBC P4 2.4B @3.01Ghz 167FSB :: Abit IC7 :: 2x256MB HyperX PC3700 :: ASUS 9600XT :: WD Raptor 2x36GB RAID0

07-03-2003, 11:11 AM	#9
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Here's a cleaning tip I got, from my RC magazine: make a solution of water and antifreeze, warm it up, and let the part dip in it for a while. It was meant to clean burnt fuel and oil residue. It's a messy process, and not without dangers. The pot used will not be re-usable for cooking btw __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

07-03-2003, 04:59 PM	#10
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	vinegar does wonders for the way an ugly looking heater core presents itself. it's just the chemicals and fluxes they use to make them, that makes it look so bad... __________________ There is no Spoon....

07-02-2003, 06:46 PM	#2
pissboy Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: here Posts: 10	its copper and lead, I dont know what else it would look like?

07-02-2003, 07:13 PM	#4
hydrogen18 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: USA Posts: 248	as mentioned the outside is mainly lead and brass....the copper that does the conducting is internal in the honeycomb structure. U can shine it up if u wanna. Soldering is waht u need to do btw. Grab a propane torch kit(comes with solder)and some pipe and fitting to practice with before u solder onto it though.

07-02-2003, 10:52 PM	#5
Al Kaseltzer Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2003 Location: Montreal, QC Posts: 14	That thing is supposed to go on the Inside of a Chevette. If you owned a Chevette, would you want to pay more for prettier engine parts ? Any manufacturing process That uses lots of heat, like soldering, brazing and welding will cause metal to tarnish (oxidize) Cleaning would add a few buck to the price. There's no significant effect on performance, might as well leave it ugly.

07-03-2003, 02:58 AM	#6
MadDogMe Thermophile Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just shut up ;) ... Posts: 1,068	No wonder people buy Japanesse cars!, What a peice of shit!. I have a HC pulled out of 15year old car that looks better (well NOT actualy worse then ). I'd take it back and tell him it's for a custom project and could he have a look through to see if he can find a better one. The tarnish is probably where it's been damp on the shelf for an age. It's only us hand soldering monkeys that tarnish the whole peice cause we don't know when enough heat's enough! ...

07-03-2003, 10:54 AM	#8
Prlwytkovsky Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Washington DC Posts: 28	I've seen a lot of differences in "new" heatercores. I went to Pepboys once and was shown a "new" heatercore with quite a bit of kettlestone in it. Other heatercores differ a lot in quality as well. Some soldering jobs are plain messy, others are perfect. Yours has quite a bit of oxidation and a really messy soldering job.

08-06-2003, 02:27 AM	#11
supz Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2003 Location: de_dust, NJ Posts: 8	Titanium, I also just purchased the same heatercore, and I'm trying to do the same thing you are doing. So far I have found the following web pages: http://www.overclockers.com/tips250/ http://www.phlux.co.uk/articles.php?aid=7&page=1 http://www.overclockers.com/tips1022/ They mention cleaning briefly. The part that I'm a bit confused on what to do about, is cutting off the pipe and getting it to work with my 1/2 OD, 3/8 ID vinyl tubing. I can't seem to find any couplings or barbs that will fit onto the end of the inlet/outlets, to be soldered. If I find out anything else, I will PM you. Good luck

08-06-2003, 03:24 AM	#12
msv Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 336	I got my DD heater core yesterday (the days of my BI Micro are counted, or rather; counting), and it wasn´t exactly pretty either. It has 1/2" hoses soldered on it, so someone has put effort to adapt it for computer use, but no effort to make it look any better than a piece of crap. Strange. I´ll test that vinegar tip tonight. Expect some bitchy elbow ache whining from me tomorrow. regards Mikael S. __________________ The only constant factor in all Your failures is You. Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnen mihi habis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

08-06-2003, 02:25 PM	#14
BrianW Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Desert City in California Posts: 631	The heater core is beautiful, you just need to give it a make over: Here are some pics: Unmodified: Barbs cut, and tanks sanded: Dry fitting of copper pieces: After soldering: And after another rounf of sanding: For more pics: http://thengc.net/images/watercooled...eg-press/Pics/ __________________ Water Cooled Inwin Q500 (Dual Rads: Rad1 = DTEK Pro Core \| Rad2 = Blick Ice Estreme, Hydor L30, Dangerden Maze2, Bay Res Typhoon Reservoir, 1/2 " DD Tygon Thick Wall Hose). Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently. Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)

08-06-2003, 02:35 PM	#15
Prlwytkovsky Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Washington DC Posts: 28	Nice job. Did you take any precautions when you soldered those fittings on ? I would be afraid that other parts get loose when you heat one of the pipes. I'm planning to use JBWeld to be on the safe side. (I'm not that confident that I could pull a job like this off).

08-06-2003, 03:11 PM	#16
BrianW Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Desert City in California Posts: 631	Hmmn: precautions, well I always try and be as safe as possible: Brian __________________ Water Cooled Inwin Q500 (Dual Rads: Rad1 = DTEK Pro Core \| Rad2 = Blick Ice Estreme, Hydor L30, Dangerden Maze2, Bay Res Typhoon Reservoir, 1/2 " DD Tygon Thick Wall Hose). Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently. Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)

08-06-2003, 03:58 PM	#18
BrianW Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Desert City in California Posts: 631	The original barbs listed on my heater core above is listed as 5/8". After cutting them down past the flanges, you will have a pipe size that will accept a 1/2" Pipe to 1/2" female threaded NPT fitting showed in the pics I posted above. The T piece above also fits over it perfectly. Both will have a little play, but nothing some flux, and some silver solder wont fill. So basically any fitting that on one side accepts 1/2" pipe will work. Hope it helps, BrianW __________________ Water Cooled Inwin Q500 (Dual Rads: Rad1 = DTEK Pro Core \| Rad2 = Blick Ice Estreme, Hydor L30, Dangerden Maze2, Bay Res Typhoon Reservoir, 1/2 " DD Tygon Thick Wall Hose). Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently. Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)

08-06-2003, 05:49 PM	#19
hydrogen18 Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: USA Posts: 248	the vinegar tip works wonders, its what i did. i never knew the plumbing fittings from home depot were NPT btw

08-06-2003, 06:37 PM	#21
BrianW Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Desert City in California Posts: 631	You do not want MIP, it is for compressed fittings. Get the part i mentioned, and you will be happy. 1/2" Pipe to 1/2" Female NPT. As far as explaining MIP, do not worry, as far as explaining NPT (National Pipe Thread), i'll give it a try. NPT is sometimes confused and intermixed with copper and plastic pipe sizing(unthreaded pipe pieces). Pipe sizing measurement describes the smallest ID dimension for a particular family of sizes. IE: 1/2" pipe parts will all work with eachother, and all their smalles ID dimensions will be approx. 1/2". The pipe itself is closest to this standard. The connectors, ie: elbows, converters, t's all will accept the 1/2" pipe. The 1/2" pipe will slip into the connectors. NPT is used to describe the thread sizes of parts that sometimes are used with pipe and sometimes with barbs. For instance we generally see waterblocks with 1/4" MALE NPT X 1/2" Barb. The barb is measured by what hose will fit over it, so it is actually larger than 1/2" in diameter. Depending on the manufacturer the id of the NPT side will be anywhere from 1/4 to 2/8". Hope it helps, BrianW __________________ Water Cooled Inwin Q500 (Dual Rads: Rad1 = DTEK Pro Core \| Rad2 = Blick Ice Estreme, Hydor L30, Dangerden Maze2, Bay Res Typhoon Reservoir, 1/2 " DD Tygon Thick Wall Hose). Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently. Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)

08-06-2003, 08:32 PM	#22
CoolROD Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North Carolina, USA Posts: 225	The I.D. of NPT pipe, nipples, couplings, bards, etc. is not specified -It depends on the product's intended usage or how heavy the pipe's wall needs to be. All NPT fittings have a maximum male O.D. , a certain thread pitch, and a recommended thread length for proper engagement. There is a taper of ~ 3.1/2 Deg. (3/4" per foot or 3.577 Deg.) on the male and female threads that causes a wedge-like engagement of the threads. Teflon tape is not a sealant -it is a lubricant. It reduces friction in the joint and allows the pipe to be tightened further where the interference fit creates the seal. Properly made pipe fittings should turn 2-3 or 2.1/2 - 3.1/2 turns by hand -depending on who you ask / intended usage, materials, etc. __________________ Jack of all Trades, Master of None.

08-06-2003, 10:44 PM	#24
supz Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2003 Location: de_dust, NJ Posts: 8	I'm almost done! Pictures here: http://www.supz.org/heater%20core%20project/

08-06-2003, 10:48 PM	#25
CoolROD Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North Carolina, USA Posts: 225	Nice work -that looks like something . I am ready to see some pics of it in a system! Do you have the fan / mount figured out? __________________ Jack of all Trades, Master of None.

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