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Water Block Design / Construction Building your own block? Need info on designing one? Heres where to do it

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Unread 02-10-2004, 10:15 PM   #1
Shwag
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Default O-Ring Help! (n00b)

Hi everyone....
Me and a friend decided to make a waterblock.
I picked the #rotor design.

I wanna have a clear top because i have a UV system.
My question is....
How do i find out what size o-ring i need?

Also.... all i have is a drill press.
How do i go about cutting the groove for it?

I attatched an image of my design with measurements. (in inches)

Any help or adice would be much appreciated.

Shwag

EDIT:
I was also wondering.
Can i use a gasket?
It would be much easier.
But i know they rot.
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Unread 02-10-2004, 10:46 PM   #2
Fyber
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I'm Shwag's friend.

I have a few questions too...

How would one go about leak testing this block? I want to make sure it's 100% ready for testing before I put it in my system.

Also, if the block was poly-topped, how would you put LEDs in it without comprimising it's strength?

Thanks.
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Unread 02-10-2004, 11:34 PM   #3
killernoodle
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I used blue RTV silicon and it makes a good seal, but it is blue and not very sightly behind plexi if you use too much. If you use clear GOOP properly in a very thin coat it can be invisible, because you will not be able to make a O-Ring groove with a drill press. Trust me, I have tried. Even the simplest milling is nearly impossible with a drill press, especially in copper.

EDIT: as for the leds, just put them on the very edge, not very far in the plastic. If you have extra space left over that is not under pressure or has copper directly underneath it, you can simply drill a hole and glue them in there.
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Unread 02-10-2004, 11:35 PM   #4
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First of all, its virtually impossible to make a good O-ring groove without a real milling machine or lathe. Gaskets are great for metal to metal, but not plastic. I would suggest you get ahold of some RTV silicone from your local walmart or auto parts store. That stuff is great. Just put a small bead around it and screw it down.

Definately leak test it. just hook it up to the system and run the water through it for a day or so. Thats the basic way, another way is submerge it in water with 2 hoses on the barbs, plug one and blow in the other while praying for no bubbles


Waterblock making sure is fun, enjoy yourselves


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Unread 02-10-2004, 11:36 PM   #5
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JFettig, do we think alike or what
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Unread 02-11-2004, 12:00 AM   #6
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Thanks Jon and killernoodle!

For some reason, it feels great having a watercooling sensei (referring to Jon) talk about an upcomnig design. I'm not sure about you killer, but you seem to have the same viewpoints as Jon, and you're both great.

Thanks!
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Unread 02-11-2004, 12:09 AM   #7
Shwag
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Im almost 100% sure i have about 30 different silicones in the garage.
I was thinking of using it but i wasn't sure.
To be safe im going to buy a new tube too.

Thanks for the help jon and killernoodle.
Ill probobly wind up being a regular on these forums.

Also ill take pictures of the work im doing and the finished project.

Shwag
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Unread 02-11-2004, 12:15 AM   #8
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I believe in pressure testing with compressed air, if there is a leak that will make it show up faster and more clearly than any other method. All that is needed is a bucket of water and a source of compressed air. Pressure should be as much as the item under test can SAFELY handle. (Note that the initial pressurization should be done slowly so that any failures happen slowly rather than as a bomb...)

My soldered copper blocks I test at 90 PSI, which is my compressors max. They should be able to take more, but I don't see much point. Heater core style rads shouldn't be subjected to more than about 25 PSI. I'm not sure what a poly top block should be able to take, but it should certainly be able to handle 25 PSI.

Either way, the technique is simple enough, bring the device under test up to pressure while it is submerged in the bucket and look for bubbles. If none, leave it for an hour or two in order to make sure, but you should be all set.

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Unread 02-11-2004, 12:56 AM   #9
Shwag
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Thanks goose.
Ill keep that in mind.

I have one more question.
I need help with taps.
How the hell do i figure out what size i need?
Its all just so confusing.

Shwag
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Unread 02-11-2004, 07:47 AM   #10
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Tapping copper isnt fun, its gooey for the most part. Typically 6-32 is as small as you want to go with regular taps. I would actually suggest a 10-24 tap just to be safe.

For the 10-24 tap you need to drill the correct size holes, use the tap and a tap T handle to tap it, not any type of wrench.

When tapping, you typically want to turn it in about 1/2 turn and out 1/4, in 1/2 out 1/4. Use some sort of oil, motor oil works great. WD40 works alright too.

Leave plenty of room(at least 1/8") around the hole being tapped for sealant just to be sure you have a good seal.

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Unread 02-11-2004, 09:00 AM   #11
Shwag
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Alright well im going to be tapping the plastic.
But i don't understand the sizing.
Like 6-32.
What does the 6 mean and what does the 32 mean?
How would i make sure i get the right hose barbs?

Shwag

Edit: Let me re-phrase this.
How would i match the right tap with the right barb?
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Unread 02-11-2004, 10:50 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shwag
Alright well im going to be tapping the plastic.
But i don't understand the sizing.
Like 6-32.
What does the 6 mean and what does the 32 mean?
I'll quote another article I found online about Taps here.

Quote:
Deciphering Thread Sizes

There are two threading systems in common use in this country: SAE (American) and ISO (metric).
SAE threads are described in the form (diameter)-(threads per inch)-for instance: 1/4-20 means that the bolt is 1/4-inch in diameter and has 20 threads per inch. Diameters smaller than 1/4-inch are specified by a number size. For example, #10-32 is a very common size; the "#10" is equivalent to 3/16-inch and there are 32 threads per inch.

Metric threads are specified in the form (diameter)-(millimeters per thread). For example, 5 mm-.8 means that the diameter of the bolt is 5 millimeters and that the threads are .8 millimeters apart. ISO metric threads are standardized to the extent that the thread pitch is not usually mentioned, unless it is non-standard for the diameter for example, 5mm-.8 is often just called 5mm, but if the thread pitch is other than .8, it would have to be specified. Likewise, 6 mm-l.0 is a standard ISO size, and could be referred to as "6 mm."

A few sizes are more or less interchangeable between the American and metric systems; particularly useful is #10-32/5 mm. These can generally be interchanged with no problem.
Hope that clears up a lot ...

Quote:
How would i make sure i get the right hose barbs?

Shwag

Edit: Let me re-phrase this.
How would i match the right tap with the right barb?
You simply match the size of the barb thread end and number of threads to the tap you are using. I usually do it the other way around... match the barb to the tap I need to use.
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Unread 02-11-2004, 10:52 AM   #13
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I think you and the other guys are talking about two different kinds of taps. They are assuming you are tapping copper to thread machine screws into, and you are trying to tap the plexi top to thread a hose barb into.

6-32 is a machine screw size. The 6 specifies that it is a number six diameter thread, and the 32 is the number of threads per inch. Straight thread sizes below 1/4" are referenced by numbered sizes for simplicity (or complexity, depending on how you look at it)

When getting a straight tap to tap a hole for a 6-32 machine screw, you need to make sure you get a #6 diameter tap with 32 threads per inch, or else the machine screw won't fit in the hole when you're done. If you find any old #6 tap, it could be a coarse thread or fine thread tap (signified by NC or NF). The standard NF thread count for #6 hardware is 40 threads per inch.

There are different kinds of pipe taps, but you shouldn't ever have to use anything but NPT (national pipe taper). The NPT standard lays out exact thread shape, the angle of taper, and the number of threads per inch for each size. If you have a 1/4" NPT threaded hose barb, and a 1/4" NPT tap, you do not need to worry about any other factors. They are completely compatable per the standard.

1/4" NPT tapered pipe tap
three types of straight-thread taps (the difference is the amount of bevel on the leading edge)

See the attached tables for more insight on standard sizes and their respective thread counts for both straight thread and NPT thread. Lemme know if you want any more info, and good luck with the block!
Attached Images
File Type: png straight_thread.PNG (8.9 KB, 12 views)
File Type: png NPT_taper_thread.PNG (2.2 KB, 8 views)
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Unread 02-11-2004, 12:04 PM   #14
Shwag
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Alright....
I kinda get it.
Not too much tho.

The desciption of my barb i got online is:
A-387 PB225N 1/2X1/2N-HOSE ADAPT BARB X MIP

The bag it came in says "MIP adapter 1/2" X 1/2""

Thats all.
It says nothing about the threads right?

Edit:
So if i bought these:
http://www.usplastic.com/pdfdatafile...ing11-2003.pdf

I would need a 1/2"NPT tap right?

Last edited by Shwag; 02-11-2004 at 12:23 PM.
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Unread 02-11-2004, 12:15 PM   #15
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Silicon + copper, can in some circumstances = bad.

if the sealant is Acid based (ie, the silicon is disolved in acid, and when its used the acid evaporates and makes the silicon set) it will smell very strongly of vinegar, dont use this type! i allready know that its bad for electrical components due to using at work alot waterproofing lights and such on the exterior of vehicles, it can eat through the copper wire and terminals if exposed for a long amount of time, so i can only assume it will have the same effect on solid copper.

so be warned, make sure the silicon is a non acidic based one, your trying to prevent leaks not make them
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Unread 02-11-2004, 12:21 PM   #16
Shwag
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Check....
Not acid based.
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Unread 02-11-2004, 12:30 PM   #17
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good good, carry on
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Unread 02-11-2004, 12:35 PM   #18
Shwag
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ATV silicon is acetic.
http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache...hl=en&ie=UTF-8
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Unread 02-11-2004, 01:41 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shwag
Alright....
The desciption of my barb i got online is:
A-387 PB225N 1/2X1/2N-HOSE ADAPT BARB X MIP

The bag it came in says "MIP adapter 1/2" X 1/2""

Thats all.
It says nothing about the threads right?
If this barb is labeled like the ones I work with (standard Hardware Hank brass fittings), then the first 1/2" means that the threaded end is a standard 1/2" NPT tapered pipe thread, and the second 1/2" signifies that the outside of the barb end is designed to work with 1/2" ID tubing.

Another example: a 1/2" x 1/4" barb would have a 1/2" NPT threaded end and a 1/4" hose barb. You see the pattern...

In short, a 1/2" NPT tap should be exactly what you need.

Quote:
So if i bought these:
http://www.usplastic.com/pdfdatafile...ing11-2003.pdf
I would need a 1/2"NPT tap right?
Yep; you got it.
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Unread 02-11-2004, 01:44 PM   #20
Shwag
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Yay!
Then i got what i need.
Now just to find a 1/2" NPT tap.
I looked on ebay with no luck.
Anyone know where to get one?
Don't go crazy searching.
I can ask the mechanic at my step-dads work.

Will this work?
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/pro_d...re&dir=catalog

Also where can i get teh copper from?

Shwag
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Unread 02-11-2004, 03:49 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shwag
Yay!
Then i got what i need.
Now just to find a 1/2" NPT tap.
I looked on ebay with no luck.
Anyone know where to get one?
Don't go crazy searching.
I can ask the mechanic at my step-dads work.

Will this work?
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/pro_d...re&dir=catalog

Also where can i get teh copper from?

Shwag
You should have gotten 1 1/4" NPT x 1/2" barb and a 1/4" NPT tap. 1/4" NPT is basically the same size as the barb (they are kinda the standard barbs for the watercooling industry because they are small and flow basically straight through.


These are 1/4"NPT x 1/2" barbs and a 1/4"NPT tap. See how they are basically the same size tubes as threads? Your barbs will end up being like a 1/2" tube attached to a thread the size of a garden hose. You will have a tough time threading the holes this way. 1/2" thread size and 1/2" tube size are not the same in any way.

Good luck trying to tap and put barbs on what you are doing, because it will be tough with the stuff you just bought.

You can get copper cheap at ebay, and a little more expensive a onlinemetals.com and mcmaster, although you will probably have a tougher time finding the right stuff at mcmaster since they have so much crap to sort through

If you are using a plexi top, I would recommend plastic barbs, plus they are cheaper and seem to hold onto the tubing better and dont seem to leak as much around the threads, although they may be less durable (I have never had one leak or explode, quite impossible in a good WC system anyways.). Mcmaster part #: 5463K465

For the tap: Mcmaster part #: 2525A113 This is the best tap for the money, as you will probably not be doing much tapping. Pretty standard and pretty cheap here.

EDIT: This is a comparison of a 1/2" NPT x 1/2" barb against a standard 1/4" NPT x 1/2" barb.


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Last edited by killernoodle; 02-11-2004 at 03:55 PM.
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Unread 02-11-2004, 03:50 PM   #22
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you could try either www.onlinemetals.com or www.mcmastercarr.com both carry a wide range of stuff. on the block design, i don't know if you're using a TEC or not, but if no, you could easily get rid of the top and bottom row of holes, thus keeping more of the flow over the processor.
*edit* gaaah, killernoodle, you beat me by one minute.
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Unread 02-11-2004, 03:53 PM   #23
Shwag
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OMG you rox my balls....
I will return these barbs to lowes tomorrow.
Hey im a broke kid.
I could just keep em.
But then i wouldn't have to drive.

Anyway.
Yes you own.
Thx so much.

Zog so u think i should eliminate the holes on the top and bottom.
How many holes wide should i leave it?

Here is the current revamped design.
Tell me what holes i should take off.

My total for the materials needed to make like 3 blocks is $25.93

Danm i can't stop asking questions.
What kinda springs do i need if im going to do the mounting with the mobo standoff mounting method?
My question is more like how many pounds of pressure do i have to exert on the block?
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File Type: jpg Water Block Bottom Layer.jpg (102.5 KB, 31 views)
File Type: jpg Water Block Top Layer.jpg (118.7 KB, 21 views)

Last edited by Shwag; 02-11-2004 at 04:46 PM.
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Unread 02-11-2004, 08:12 PM   #24
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Damn Shwag, that thing's looking damn good.

And you're sending me one

I'll do the LED mod on it if I have the time/skills.
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Unread 02-11-2004, 08:47 PM   #25
Shwag
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Well here is the most up to the hour design which i belive is the last and final.
I can't friggan wait to order the stuff.

Nevermind about the springs too.
I figured it out.

Shwag
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File Type: jpg Water Block Top Layer.jpg (122.7 KB, 22 views)
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