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Water Block Design / Construction Building your own block? Need info on designing one? Heres where to do it

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Unread 11-10-2004, 09:17 PM   #1
jaydee
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I got this XYZ cross slide table off an old engraver we used to use at StampWorks. This is a very very accurate and tight table. Very very heavy duty aswell. That table alone weighs 80lbs! Thats over twice as much as my entire CNC mill. These tables were used for extreamly accurate and detailed engraving aswell as heavy duty milling into heavy metal. It is a sweet table. The entire engraver is worth $6,000 new.

I am going to use the parts from my little Sherline Mill and try to convert it all to use that table for the X and Y axis. It does have a Z axis like a knee mill (table rises as oposed to the spindle dropping) but I don't plan on using it as of now. I am going to beef up the back end of the Sherline and figure out how to make it all work with this table. I don't think it will be all that difficult, just lots of work squaring things up.
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Unread 11-10-2004, 09:30 PM   #2
Kobuchi
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You are one lucky guy.
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Unread 11-10-2004, 10:00 PM   #3
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I can't wait to see what you'll make wiht that.
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Unread 11-10-2004, 11:06 PM   #4
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Found a link to a description of the unit I took the table off of. It is Gorton (excellent brand) P1-2 manual engraver.

http://www.staramg.com/ds/000838.html
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Unread 11-11-2004, 12:30 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee116
That table alone weighs 80lbs! I am going to beef up the back end of the Sherline and figure out how to make it all work with this table.
Reinforced concrete?
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Unread 11-11-2004, 09:07 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobuchi
Reinforced concrete?
Steel. Got lot's of scrap at work.
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Unread 11-11-2004, 10:24 AM   #7
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Nice...

How much did it run you, if one can ask?
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Unread 11-11-2004, 04:40 PM   #8
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Nice man, I was looking around trying to figure out how I was going to do my column, and what I saw that inspired me was part of someones gantry router, For your little sherline and that thing I would use 4" sq tube, thick as you can get, mill the bottom flat, then make a plate to go onto the bottom, weld it on, probably 1" thick, with your holes for mounting, before you do that, flycut the sides that need to be squair with the bottom(front and back) and weld another peice to the front and flycut that or cut dovetails or however you want to do it, I plan on using THK SR(I think thats the ones) linear slides for mine they can be aquired from ebay for pretty good prices, then if you want, you could fit your spindle to that.

For the Z axis, ballscrew isnt quite as important but get some decent leadscrew.

I know almost for sure that your steppers wont work on that thing, I picked up a nice bundle of motors(20+) 300oz/in, if you want a couple let me know Im selling them over at cnczone.

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Unread 11-11-2004, 11:04 PM   #9
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I have had machine parts tweak out of true despite herculean bracing and clamping, as the weld fillets cool and contract. Beware.
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Unread 11-12-2004, 08:30 AM   #10
JFettig
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Yes, they would be machined after welding too so that they stay flat and well, When I do it, I will probably have the welder at work weld it all up for me.

Jon
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Unread 11-12-2004, 05:33 PM   #11
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Damn man...damn!!!
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Unread 11-12-2004, 06:55 PM   #12
JFettig
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Jaydee, post a bunch of closeups on the sherline, all the important gear, maybe I could give you some ideas and info from experience.

I saw a pic of a sherline earlier today and I saw the massive ~1/2" thick column
and Im complaining about my column not being rigid enough!

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Unread 11-12-2004, 10:13 PM   #13
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Ben: Free. The condition was to get the table off before he could get to it with the forklift and dump it in the truck headed for the scrap yard. Also mine is about 10 years newer than that one I posted in the link above.

John, you pretty much summed up my initial thoughts on what I plan to do.

Yes the column is a thin steel thing on the Sherline. it is about 2" wide and 3/8" thick. What I intend to do is anchor is at the bottom and also the top. I was going to drill some holes at the top of that steel column and bolt it directly to that 4" column at the top and the bottom.

Do those stepper motors of your plug in to the controller cords the same way my Sherline one's do?
If so I might be interested.

Also I plan on joining up with CNCZONE and starting a thread about it there. Unfortunately my mill is 120 miles away or I would get the pics and start the thread now but I will have to wait until after thanksgiving as that will be the next time I get up there. Headed to Cali Sunday until the 23rd and will be heading up to my grandparents (were the mill is) the 24th or 25th.

Kobuchi: I am a welder/fabricator/steel erector so I do understand the problems you speak of.
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Unread 11-13-2004, 11:58 AM   #14
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Yeah, jaydee, bolt a solid chunk of steel to the back of that column.

I doubt my motors would hook up, they are about 6x bigger in size and power.

Jon
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Unread 11-13-2004, 02:41 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFettig
Yeah, jaydee, bolt a solid chunk of steel to the back of that column.

I doubt my motors would hook up, they are about 6x bigger in size and power.

Jon
I am considering getting a different controller for this. What kind of controller do you use on your mill? I like those stepper motors you have there as hand wheels can be attached to them.
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Unread 11-13-2004, 03:43 PM   #16
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ooh, It is possible that your controller might work, but not the drives. I use turbocnc 4.01 right now as my controller on my old p166 laptop. I use Gecko drives wich are hooked up to the step and direction pins of the parallel port output wich outputs the pulses to the motors. They are top of the line stepper drives 10microsteps per step, that means I get 2,000 steps out of one revolution vs 200. I plan on running about 80vdc through these motors when I get around to it. This will give me rapid movements over 120ipm

Im guessing your drives use half stepping or possibly full stepping with fine thread leadscrews.

The handwheel addition will probably be nice, the only thing is that when using ballscrews you can push your table around by hand when there are no motors attached, for simple stuff it would be a problem, like moving the stuff around, but you would definately have to have the Z axis motor powered up to do any milling.

I just got done milling part of my motor mount for my new 1.5hp dc motor for my spindle
http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/722


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Unread 11-13-2004, 10:49 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFettig
ooh, It is possible that your controller might work, but not the drives. I use turbocnc 4.01 right now as my controller on my old p166 laptop. I use Gecko drives wich are hooked up to the step and direction pins of the parallel port output wich outputs the pulses to the motors. They are top of the line stepper drives 10microsteps per step, that means I get 2,000 steps out of one revolution vs 200. I plan on running about 80vdc through these motors when I get around to it. This will give me rapid movements over 120ipm

Im guessing your drives use half stepping or possibly full stepping with fine thread leadscrews.

The handwheel addition will probably be nice, the only thing is that when using ballscrews you can push your table around by hand when there are no motors attached, for simple stuff it would be a problem, like moving the stuff around, but you would definately have to have the Z axis motor powered up to do any milling.

I just got done milling part of my motor mount for my new 1.5hp dc motor for my spindle
http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/722


Jon
Mine run full step at 200 on the sherline. They are only 144oz though. The lead screws are actually pretty damn good for non ball screw style. They are a nice fine thread lead screw.

I was looking at this http://www.geckodrive.com/item.htbml...=&item_id=G201 geckodrive driver for this conversion with better stepper motors. I assume that is the one you are using or maybe the other one http://www.geckodrive.com/item.htbml...=&item_id=G210 Not sure what the difference is between them.

Is that all you need to make the stepper motors work? That driver, the stepper motors, a PC, and turboCNC? Or is there any other parts/software needed? I am assuming the that geckodrive will replace my curent controller.

I am first going to try it with my current parts just to make sure I can succesfuly convert that table over. If it works and it looks like it will be worth the cost I will buy the better parts for it.
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Unread 11-14-2004, 12:18 AM   #18
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I have the 201s, the 210s have selectable step multiplying.

You need some sort of a breakout board with the pinout, I use axxus technologies breakout board that takes 12v and feeds the drives the 5v they need and has all the inputs and outputs that it can use.

The drives need 5v to run and between 24 and 80v for the motors, for my motors I would try to push 80v for the maximum speed. You would need simple stuff like current seting resistors, capacitors if using unregulated power supply, your suposed to put a 470uF 100v cap on the voltage input. All that and you know, the regular, wire, power supply and all.

I bet maybe you could get that table to move at about 10ipm max with those motors probably have to gear them down with pully reduction.
You would have to set up turbocnc accordingly to the setup, set the step and direction pins and all of that, or just hook them up like it already has, then set the max frequency to give you the max rapids and acceleration so you dont loose steps.

Jon
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Unread 12-04-2004, 06:07 PM   #19
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I took the table into the shop at work today to get it standing upright. That part is done.

As I was doing this I noticed a large amount of slop in the lead screws. I can move the hand wheel over 1/2 turn before the screws grab and turn. That's not good at all. I hope there is an adjustment for his.

Next step is the fab up the new colum that will support the Z axis of the Sherline. I got some 3"x3"x3/16" tubing I will try first.


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Unread 12-04-2004, 10:24 PM   #20
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Possibly the ugliest milling machine evah.... hell yeah
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Unread 12-04-2004, 10:36 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killernoodle
Possibly the ugliest milling machine evah.... hell yeah
Indeed, not pretty at all.

I found a nicer version of the machine this came off of on ebay. It is newer and has the Milling spindal on it. This one only had the engraving Spindal.

Going for $56.00! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...856788735&rd=1
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Unread 12-05-2004, 12:36 AM   #22
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lookin good so far, one thing I wouldnt be doing is making that sherline contraption permanent, definately go for something much bigger, maybe get ahold of a HF head and motor maybe from a mill like mine from littlemachineshop.com

Jon
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Unread 12-05-2004, 12:22 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFettig
lookin good so far, one thing I wouldnt be doing is making that sherline contraption permanent, definately go for something much bigger, maybe get ahold of a HF head and motor maybe from a mill like mine from littlemachineshop.com

Jon
I can beef up the Sherline column. I plan on driling 2 more holes in the middle and 2 more holes at the top of the column and then bolting it to the 3"x3"x3/16" tubing and adding some gusets to the sides. That will easily make it stout enough for what I want to use it for and a hell of a lot better than the stock Sherline. Also I don't want to spend to much cash on this untill I know the table will work out. But I hear you. if the table works out well I will condider better parts. These will be removable.

I am disapointed to find the lead screws messed up with so much slop in them. Hopefully that can be adjusted out. If not the next best step would be converting it to Ball Screw (which I thought they were originally but only the Z axis was). Good ball screws are not cheap.

There is no way my little Sherline stepper motors will move that table as is. It takes a lot of force to move it. Maybe to much. Looks like someone may have over tightened the gibs some.

Here is a shot. Looks like a fairly easy conversion to ball scres though.


I am going to see what I can do with the lead screws before I do anything else.
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Unread 12-11-2004, 08:12 PM   #24
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Another update. it is basically a working manual mill now. I could also hool up the CNC controller and make it a power feed Z axis. It is very stout now. One more brace at the top of the Z axis will make it plenty good.

Next step is work on the X/Y lead screws and get them worked out and convert the X/Y to CNC. Then I will work out the smaller details.











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Unread 12-12-2004, 02:05 PM   #25
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Lookin pretty good so far, It looks like you should make a block to space the head out a little further to make use of more of the table.

Jon
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