Go Back   Pro/Forums > ProCooling Technical Discussions > General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar JavaChat Mark Forums Read

General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums.

Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 02-13-2005, 06:45 PM   #26
killernoodle
Thermophile
 
killernoodle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,014
Default

So, do you want one of my bowls? I will have two of them.
__________________
I have a nice computer.
killernoodle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-13-2005, 09:56 PM   #27
murray13
Cooling Savant
 
murray13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Omaha, NE USA
Posts: 216
Default

Is this or this what you guys are looking for???
murray13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-13-2005, 10:04 PM   #28
killernoodle
Thermophile
 
killernoodle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,014
Default

No, they cant be parabolic or ellipsoid, they have to be spherical. It must maintain a point light source.
__________________
I have a nice computer.
killernoodle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-14-2005, 04:16 AM   #29
lolito_fr
Cooling Savant
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: France
Posts: 291
Default

Have you guys checked out this forum:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/forum...php?forumid=20

From what I can tell, the LL guide looks a little outdated, but access to the protected parts of the forum makes up for it!
For example, I think Brainchild is recommending the smaller two-ended bulbs now, over the large mogul base bulbs. Maybe it's easier to source a decent mirror for these lamps?

Curse the internet for taking over my spare time...

Edit: ignore, smaller bulbs are for the 7" LCD's.

Last edited by lolito_fr; 02-14-2005 at 06:44 AM.
lolito_fr is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-14-2005, 10:43 AM   #30
killernoodle
Thermophile
 
killernoodle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,014
Default

Yeah, plus they are really expensive for even something small like 250w.

The LL design is proven and has been replicated dozens of times with good results. I'm sticking to it.
__________________
I have a nice computer.
killernoodle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-14-2005, 01:13 PM   #31
killernoodle
Thermophile
 
killernoodle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,014
Default

Mmm, got a ballast today. This thing weighs a ton and a half!!!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Ballast.jpg (92.9 KB, 48 views)
__________________
I have a nice computer.
killernoodle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-14-2005, 05:25 PM   #32
JWFokker
Cooling Savant
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Kingston, NY
Posts: 269
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by killernoodle
No, they cant be parabolic or ellipsoid, they have to be spherical. It must maintain a point light source.
WAIT! Those could work. Positioned correctly I think you could definitely do it. The ellipsoidal would be the way to go but they're too small (I didn't realize how huge the bulbs are). If you know of any other places to get similar reflectors murray, please post 'em.
JWFokker is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-14-2005, 08:18 PM   #33
killernoodle
Thermophile
 
killernoodle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,014
Default

You might be thinking that you can use the second focal point, but you cant. This would make 2 point light sources, the bulb and the second focal point. Not good at all.
__________________
I have a nice computer.
killernoodle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-14-2005, 11:21 PM   #34
JWFokker
Cooling Savant
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Kingston, NY
Posts: 269
Default

Can you cook up a basic diagram because I don't understand what you're saying. I don't remember most of physics class so I'm having to relearn quite a bit of stuff.
JWFokker is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-15-2005, 10:00 AM   #35
killernoodle
Thermophile
 
killernoodle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,014
Default

Basically, a point light source is needed to generate the image, so this is why HID bulbs are used. You need a reflector to use as much of the wasted light as you can for maximum brightness, and to maintain this point light source you need it to be in the middle of a sphere. The focal point of a sphere is the very center, so if you put the bulb part in the very middle of the sphere the light will bounce off of the reflector and back into the bulb. It is hard to describe, so look at the pic:
Attached Images
File Type: gif Projector Plans.gif (24.9 KB, 43 views)
__________________
I have a nice computer.
killernoodle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-15-2005, 06:25 PM   #36
JWFokker
Cooling Savant
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Kingston, NY
Posts: 269
Default

I understand why the current system works with a point light source, but there's got to be a way to use a parabolic reflector to achieve a more even distribution of light. I had something along the lines of a spotlight, which is why I was looking at photographic reflectors.
JWFokker is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-15-2005, 08:19 PM   #37
joesgarage11
Cooling Neophyte
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Wisconsin USA
Posts: 36
Default

A very interesting project, I'd like to try one of those projectors someday.

Here's a link to the DIY Projector Company website. Lots of free information and theory. They've got some designs with mirrors to turn the light path in the projector to make the box smaller.

Quote:
killernoodle writes:
The focal point of a sphere is the very center, so if you put the bulb part in the very middle of the sphere the light will bounce off of the reflector and back into the bulb.
It seems like a spherical reflector is recommended by most of the projector builders and parts vendors, but I have my doubts if it's the best, or even a good answer. You want to avoid having the light directed back to the arc tube to keep it from overheating. I've seen metal halide lamps after they've been operating in a poorly designed reflector that focused too much light and heat back at the lamp. In some the arc tube had bent, and in others the arc tube had bubbled before failing.

Quote:
JWFokker adds:
I understand why the current system works with a point light source, but there's got to be a way to use a parabolic reflector to achieve a more even distribution of light. I had something along the lines of a spotlight, which is why I was looking at photographic reflectors.
I think you're on the right track.

killernoodle-I haven't seen a picture of your lamp. Was wondering what the diameter is. That lamp and ballast in a box are going to put out a lot of heat. If you've got a T-15 or ED-18 lamp, google for 'pyrex cooltube'. It's a pyrex bread baking tube about 4" in diameter x 12" long that these lamps will fit into. They're used by indoor gardeners with the same lamps and a similar heat problem.
Get some airflow through the tube, over the lamp, and out of the box and it might help keep some heat off your LCD panel.
__________________
For a good night's sleep there is no pillow so soft as a clear conscience...

Last edited by joesgarage11; 02-15-2005 at 08:28 PM.
joesgarage11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-15-2005, 11:54 PM   #38
killernoodle
Thermophile
 
killernoodle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,014
Default

I'm using an ED-28 lamp that has yet to come in the mail. It is a pulse start too, so it is better than a regular MH. So far, many projectors have been built and none of them have lamp overheating problems. If you look at the first page, you will see that i have already taken care of the cooling situation
__________________
I have a nice computer.
killernoodle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-16-2005, 03:52 PM   #39
killernoodle
Thermophile
 
killernoodle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,014
Default

New parts in today....

All hail the ungodly bright lamp!

The first pic was its first start, about 30 seconds in. The second pic is about 3 mins later. A little green at first, then blindingly bright white.

It makes me happy
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Lamp1.JPG (78.3 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg Lamp2.JPG (75.5 KB, 19 views)
__________________
I have a nice computer.
killernoodle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-16-2005, 04:27 PM   #40
joesgarage11
Cooling Neophyte
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Wisconsin USA
Posts: 36
Default

Gotta love the MH. It will bring you much joy. Lol
__________________
For a good night's sleep there is no pillow so soft as a clear conscience...
joesgarage11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-16-2005, 06:18 PM   #41
joesgarage11
Cooling Neophyte
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Wisconsin USA
Posts: 36
Default

Quote:
killernoodle writes:I'm using an ED-28 lamp that has yet to come in the mail. It is a pulse start too, so it is better than a regular MH. So far, many projectors have been built and none of them have lamp overheating problems. If you look at the first page, you will see that i have already taken care of the cooling situation
So the cooltube is a nogo. Pulse start is good. Better color rendering and faster starting.

I can't tell from the picture-is it an open fixture lamp? How are you coming on the box to mount it in?

I'm looking forward to the rest of your build. I think the cooling will be a challenge if you're going for quiet operation. Youll be moving something like 450 watts of heat out of approximately a 27 liter box, about the size of a mid tower computer case.

The reflector is still bothering me, so it's time for an experiment. I gathered a 150W metal halide lamp and ballast, a parabolic reflector, a sheet of white plastic, and the only spherical reflector I have-a dog bowl. Just need to borrow a light meter from work tomorrow. I'd like to see which reflector generates the most light on a 15" x 15" square.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg mhtest.jpg (36.6 KB, 23 views)
__________________
For a good night's sleep there is no pillow so soft as a clear conscience...
joesgarage11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-16-2005, 06:47 PM   #42
killernoodle
Thermophile
 
killernoodle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,014
Default

That dog bowl will be crappy because of the huge flat spot on the bottom.

And I just bought a CMV/Amptron 520D monitor for $179 shipped (digidal/analog, 16ms, 500:1, great specs for the PJ and no FFC issues). Should be here by monday. I should also have the box done this weekend when I go home. My dad has all the woodworking tools and knowlege.

Dont worry about cooling, people get by with 1 120mm fan. I have a 172mm fan running much slower, pushing more air, and with much higher pressure. Look on the first page for a pic of it. I have got a handle on the cooling issue for sure.

Should be a fun weekend project!
__________________
I have a nice computer.
killernoodle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-16-2005, 07:40 PM   #43
JWFokker
Cooling Savant
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Kingston, NY
Posts: 269
Default

Let me know how the Amptron looks. I was looking at that model or a Samsung SyncMaster 515V. The only difference in specs is that the Samsung CR is 450:1.

But then again, the DIY Audio forums have some pretty cool projectors based on 8" XGA LCD's. I bet you could get more even lighting, easier, using a smaller LCD than with a 15". I do like small form factor approach quite a lot.
JWFokker is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-17-2005, 07:13 AM   #44
joesgarage11
Cooling Neophyte
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Wisconsin USA
Posts: 36
Default

Quote:
That dog bowl will be crappy because of the huge flat spot on the bottom.
Hehe, I guess an experiment should use the proper equipment. Where did you get your cake pan reflector?

I've been thinking about something else. I'm wondering how you could adjust the lens to overcome the parallax error. Ideally, the projector lens would be at the same vertical and horizontal position as the center of the screen. Anything else and the image will be larger on one side than the other. In my room I'd like to mount a projector from the ceiling, but the center of the image would be about 24" below the lens. We have an LCD projector at work, I'll have to see how it's done.

For the adventurous, here's a link to a water cooled HPS lamp.
__________________
For a good night's sleep there is no pillow so soft as a clear conscience...
joesgarage11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-17-2005, 09:49 AM   #45
lolito_fr
Cooling Savant
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: France
Posts: 291
Default

Quote:
I'm wondering how you could adjust the lens to overcome the parallax error
Keystone correction? The lens after the LCD has to be parrallel to the projection surface. Mount it on a pivot, etc
Gravity can make it adjust automatically if it pivots freely and has some weight at the bottom.

Alternatively, have a look at this guys PJ - it has a nice fine tuning keystone adjustment: http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index...pic=2394&st=20

Regarding the spherical mirrors its interesting that the french diy trend is to use a fairly small reflector, such as this one http://www.izzotek.com/reflecteur.htm
Maybe this is just because they also use small bulbs (typically 250w MH)...dunno.

Last edited by lolito_fr; 02-17-2005 at 02:21 PM. Reason: added link
lolito_fr is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-17-2005, 10:15 AM   #46
superart
Cooling Savant
 
superart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: FL
Posts: 787
Default

joesgarage, watercooling a HID bulb takes away about 40% light intensity.

Also, you dont want to use a HPS light for this application. Stick with MH.
__________________
When you do things right,
people won't be sure youv'e done anything at all.

Looking to buy/trade for used Deep Fryer and Vacume Pack Sealer.
superart is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-17-2005, 10:20 AM   #47
superart
Cooling Savant
 
superart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: FL
Posts: 787
Default

Also, look on some of the R2D2 building sites. Theres a few people that are selling domes for an R2D2 "head" It might be a little big, but thts what you needed, right? Also, the guys that make these heads could probably spin a dome according to custom specs if you ask.
__________________
When you do things right,
people won't be sure youv'e done anything at all.

Looking to buy/trade for used Deep Fryer and Vacume Pack Sealer.
superart is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-17-2005, 01:07 PM   #48
killernoodle
Thermophile
 
killernoodle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,014
Default

Parts Parts Parts!!!

Got my lenses and reflectors today. The reflectors are aluminum, not stainless as listed in the auction. I believe aluminum can be polished better though. Well, at least they are perfectly round, have no flat spots, will be easy to cut/polish, and cheap! They also dont weigh a lot.

JWFokker, if you want one let me know. I'll have the monitor in monday or tuesday, I'll see how it all turns out. I'll polish up one of these bulbs when I'm at home too. We can see how it all turns out.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Parts1.JPG (47.5 KB, 23 views)
__________________
I have a nice computer.
killernoodle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-17-2005, 01:17 PM   #49
bigben2k
Responsible for 2%
of all the posts here.
 
bigben2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Texas, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,302
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by killernoodle
...The reflectors are aluminum, not stainless as listed in the auction.....
That really sucks; sorry!

Yes Alu can be polished, but it's hard to tell how long that polish will hold. Is chrome plating an option here?
bigben2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-17-2005, 01:25 PM   #50
killernoodle
Thermophile
 
killernoodle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,014
Default

Not really, that would cost far more than the actual reflectors. I'll just have to live with it. What is a good way to keep them polished and still heat resistant? If I polish it with that brasso for aluminum stuff, will it keep shiny for a while?
__________________
I have a nice computer.
killernoodle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(C) 2005 ProCooling.com
If we in some way offend you, insult you or your people, screw your mom, beat up your dad, or poop on your porch... we're sorry... we were probably really drunk...
Oh and dont steal our content bitches! Don't give us a reason to pee in your open car window this summer...