Mounting Tests. - Page 2

BillA · 03-31-2005, 03:41 PM

xylene
Home Depot

jaydee · 03-31-2005, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unregistered

xylene
Home Depot

We got that in 5gallon cans at work.

Mix it with paint for painting sructual steel. I use an old tooth brush to clean the cpu with paint thinner. xylene might eat the tooth brush. Will give it a shot.

I got 3 probes calibrated. Got 2 in T's with sealant drying and the 3rd under the CPU. Once the sealant dries I can refill the system. Pondering installing the Hydrothruster500 and removing the VIA2600.... Will do a leak test in the Hydrothruster as I got a few cracks in the impeller housing. It is it stops spinning when the water hits 30C, I can only assume the impellor shaft assembly parts expand to much at that temp and bind up.. That's why I havn't used it much.

Right now with the gate valve all the way open I get 1.8GPM with the Project X block. What I think I will do is swap that block out and install my Maze 4 block for a better idea what the VIA2600 is capable of. I know the Maze 4 to not be to restrictive. Just aswell as I have to start all over again anyway (first of many I expect....).

bigben2k · 03-31-2005, 04:43 PM

Wow, you're making some very nice progress, way to go!

I think that this is going to serve you well with your design work.

jaydee · 04-01-2005, 11:54 AM

Things are much better with this revised setup. I got 3 mounts so far.

Mount 1:
14.94C

Mount 2:
14C

Mount 3:
14.69C

I added more pressure on the second mount and then backed it off to what I did on the first mount on the 3rd mount.

Making progress.

I also am taking Inlet and outlet temps and they are pretty steady at .25C difference.

Note this is an XP1700+ T-Bred A Stock
ECS K7S5A mobo.
Running K7Burn for load.

freeloadingbum · 04-01-2005, 02:01 PM

How much spring load did you decide to use and how high did you overload the spring in the second test? Also, is it possible to do a test before you overload the spring, then a test at the overloaded rate, then a retest after you backoff the spring? I'm curious to see how much difference there is between the three.

BillA · 04-01-2005, 03:02 PM

with enough resolution, one can 'walk' the temp up and down by adjusting the clamping force,
so which is 'right' ?

if not per the mfgr's inst, you are off on a pie-in-the-sky venture
- and some mfgrs will object to test results outside of the described conditions of use (the instructions)

where is the baseline ?

jaydee · 04-01-2005, 05:22 PM

The springs I got are rated at 16lbs an inch. They are 1 inch tall. My first mount I had them compresses 1/8" and the second was 1/4" and the third back to 1/8" and that is what I have on the 4th mount.

Mount 4:
14.75C.

At this point load tests might not be to usefull untill I get a solid system down. I am happy with todays results though.

Also I still got no answer to the question about the blocks mass? Seems to me if the block is heaver than the other then the CPU will be under more pressure if you use the same spring height? as the blocks weight will add to it?

freeloadingbum · 04-01-2005, 06:32 PM

Wow. Looking only at the three 8lb load mounts (excluding the overloaded one), there is only .25c total difference. I would have expected more variation using such a light load.

jaydee · 04-01-2005, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeloadingbum

Wow. Looking only at the three 8lb load mounts (excluding the overloaded one), there is only .25c total difference. I would have expected more variation using such a light load.

Sure seems like there is more than 8lbs...

freeloadingbum · 04-01-2005, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaydee116

Sure seems like there is more than 8lbs...

You can make a simple setup to measure the spring load. Using a baseplate from one of your blocks attach 4 632 bolts, then throw on the springs and washers, then use another baseplate on top of the springs. Put something small in the centre of the top plate, taping it on so it doesn't slide around. That becomes the focal point for the weight. Next, put on the nuts so they just touch the top plate. If you have a dumbell and some weights, you can balance that across the focal point. If you're desperate, a 4 litre jug of water weights 8.8 lbs. With the weight on, count how many turns it takes to reach the top plate again. This will also tell you if the weight is properly balanced as they should all be the same.

bigben2k · 04-03-2005, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaydee116

...
Also I still got no answer to the question about the blocks mass? Seems to me if the block is heaver than the other then the CPU will be under more pressure if you use the same spring height? as the blocks weight will add to it?

Seeing that blocks usually weigh less than a pound, I'd call it negligeable, but I'd always mount the blocks the same way.

jaydee · 04-03-2005, 08:35 PM

Well I am done for now. I killed my ECS K7S5A by accedently shorting the bios out on a peice of metal.

No big loss as a new one is pocket change. But I do need a new mobo. So I am going to round up a new mobo for my main system and use my Abit KD7 for the test bench being it is already socket modded and it reads from the diode I belive....... I also want to pick up the Maxim diode reader kit pH uses and give that an attempt.

Back to work tomorrow... Nice 5 days off, went by way to fast...

pHaestus · 04-03-2005, 09:40 PM

Jaydee if you have a separate PC for the diode reading then why not just mod it to use a DIY reader? The maxim setup I use is $100 US...

jaydee · 04-04-2005, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pHaestus

Jaydee if you have a separate PC for the diode reading then why not just mod it to use a DIY reader? The maxim setup I use is $100 US...

I am using my laptop for the CF633 readings. I am not to sure how to use the laptop to read the diode from the test bench comp without some sort of port connection?

ToasterIQ2000 · 04-04-2005, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaydee116

... my Dow sensor for the water temp to has died... Odd. Well back to calibrating probes... Maybe I will get 3 of them together and get water out temp aswell...

I put up some notes on the CrystalFontz website http://www.crystalfontz.com/forum/sh...?threadid=2142

& that is what I know about mounting the DOWs in water. [ and gulp, yeah, shows where I am compared to the pros here ... ]

And if you lack Excell, you could test my x86 LCDproc driver for the 633 http://www.crystalfontz.com/forum/sh...?threadid=3019 to get data into OpenOffice.

If you are working with the Cfontz stock probes, mostly be sure to trim off the little black boot around the probe<>wire junction as it is not water tight on the probe side or wire side. I also buff the part of the probe head I glue to with 1500 emmory & clean it with isopropyl.

I have no active plans to build a test bench, evaluate water blocks, & put up reviews.

I have 9 or 10 1/2" T's with 3X redundant DOW probes, single wire for 3 probes, tested wet for months, sitting in a box unused. 2 more in use, and another 10 or so unmounted DOWs.

If it would in some way lead to a regular source of quality waterblock and radiator reviews, I'd pull the two wet ones, mail you the dozen T's, calibrate cull and test to your satisfaction. Send back the odballs to keep me amused & make an offer on the ones you like?

pHaestus · 04-04-2005, 02:18 PM

That's good stuff Toaster

jaydee · 04-04-2005, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToasterIQ2000

I put up some notes on the CrystalFontz website http://www.crystalfontz.com/forum/sh...?threadid=2142

& that is what I know about mounting the DOWs in water. [ and gulp, yeah, shows where I am compared to the pros here ... ]

And if you lack Excell, you could test my x86 LCDproc driver for the 633 http://www.crystalfontz.com/forum/sh...?threadid=3019 to get data into OpenOffice.

If you are working with the Cfontz stock probes, mostly be sure to trim off the little black boot around the probe<>wire junction as it is not water tight on the probe side or wire side. I also buff the part of the probe head I glue to with 1500 emmory & clean it with isopropyl.

I have no active plans to build a test bench, evaluate water blocks, & put up reviews.

I have 9 or 10 1/2" T's with 3X redundant DOW probes, single wire for 3 probes, tested wet for months, sitting in a box unused. 2 more in use, and another 10 or so unmounted DOWs.

If it would in some way lead to a regular source of quality waterblock and radiator reviews, I'd pull the two wet ones, mail you the dozen T's, calibrate cull and test to your satisfaction. Send back the odballs to keep me amused & make an offer on the ones you like?

The probe that I thought died came back to life. My guess is it dried out. I sealed them with silicone before putting them in the loop but I didn't when I was calibrating them. My guess is some water got in there as I probably sealed it in when I siliconed them. Should have followed pH's article a little closer with the plastic bag.

I got 8 probes total still. I got 2 that read almost identically that I use, one for water in and one for water out. However I am only using the water in temp and GPM temp for results. I am eventually going to use different equipment for recording temps. The CF633 will be put into my main desktop for non testing use.

I am still planning on going with the equipment originally stated in this thread http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=11395 except for the flow meter. I belive I will bit the bullet and find a magnetic one instead.

jaydee · 04-04-2005, 09:32 PM

I just ordered 2 of these http://usa.aopen.com/Products/mb/AK77-600N.htm from neweggs refurb section for $US28.00 each. Sounds like a decent board. Should get them at the end of the week. Monday headed to Chula Vista California for a few weeks.. Hoping these boards will get in Friday so I can get some more data. These boards appear to have some decent overclocking ability so I can try and up the wattage some.

I also have an older XP1600+ that has a much larger die on it that the XP1700+ I am using now. Might try that chip to...

jaydee · 04-06-2005, 07:37 PM

Well looks like a truck load of steel got misplaced and will not be delivered untill Monday to our shop. This means I have Tomorrow and Friday off. 4 day weekend before going on a road trip to CA for a few weeks.

FedEx says 2 mobo's will be here Friday. So I am going to pull my Abit KD7 out of my main desktop and put it in the bench tonight being it has good overclocking options and no one will use that comp untill this weekend. Will put an Aopen board in the desktop when it gets here and the other one will go to a file server. That will keep the people that use the desktop happy this weekend (which is why I can't use it to log temps from the bench).

Any way will report back when things are setup and runing. This board has diode monitoring available aswell so I will cheack that against my probe under the CPU. I am also planning on putting one of the YSI RTD probes in the loop from my cole parmer thermometer. Thats a nice unit and will like to get it in the mix for the hell of it. I am going to calibrate it with the CF633 probes to get an idea whats what.

So I will have a YSI and a CF633 taking water in temps. That will keep me entertained for a while.

jaydee · 04-10-2005, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unregistered

suggest you look at springs already 'sorted out' for the socket/pressure you want
2 or 4 ?
then buy a mounting kit with those springs from your preferred vendor

I cut down a digital mic so I could lock it, and work it around all the other stuff
mount the wb first, then connect the soft silicone hoses
-> after 2 hrs jiggle the posts and wb, then wait another couple of hours
suggest using BillA Goop from AS, settles faster than most other stuff

Do I have to special request this BillA goop from AS? I can't seem to find it anywhere?

bigben2k · 04-10-2005, 08:41 PM

It's not listed; just contact AS, and they should be able to accomodate you.

jaydee · 04-27-2005, 11:30 PM

Last night I ran the Maze 4 with springs and tonight I ran it without springs. The results were interesting to me anyway. The curve is very similar by almost 2C off consistently.

Anyway I am just working on a method to achieve repeatability. I think a lot of my problems are poor probe mounting on the die sim and just not a very good probe. The CF633 is a nice unit but I am going to make a new die sim to fit the YSI RTD on my good thermometer. That way I can get Water in, water out and Die temp all on the same thermometer with .01 resolution.

03-31-2005, 04:43 PM	#28
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Wow, you're making some very nice progress, way to go! I think that this is going to serve you well with your design work. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

04-03-2005, 09:40 PM	#38
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	Jaydee if you have a separate PC for the diode reading then why not just mod it to use a DIY reader? The maxim setup I use is $100 US... __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM

04-04-2005, 02:18 PM	#41
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	That's good stuff Toaster __________________ Getting paid like a biker with the best crank... -MF DOOM

04-10-2005, 08:41 PM	#46
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	It's not listed; just contact AS, and they should be able to accomodate you. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

03-31-2005, 03:41 PM	#26
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	xylene Home Depot

04-01-2005, 11:54 AM	#29
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Things are much better with this revised setup. I got 3 mounts so far. Mount 1: 14.94C Mount 2: 14C Mount 3: 14.69C I added more pressure on the second mount and then backed it off to what I did on the first mount on the 3rd mount. Making progress. I also am taking Inlet and outlet temps and they are pretty steady at .25C difference. Note this is an XP1700+ T-Bred A Stock ECS K7S5A mobo. Running K7Burn for load.

04-01-2005, 02:01 PM	#30
freeloadingbum Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: winnipeg Posts: 129	How much spring load did you decide to use and how high did you overload the spring in the second test? Also, is it possible to do a test before you overload the spring, then a test at the overloaded rate, then a retest after you backoff the spring? I'm curious to see how much difference there is between the three.

04-01-2005, 03:02 PM	#31
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	with enough resolution, one can 'walk' the temp up and down by adjusting the clamping force, so which is 'right' ? if not per the mfgr's inst, you are off on a pie-in-the-sky venture - and some mfgrs will object to test results outside of the described conditions of use (the instructions) where is the baseline ?

04-01-2005, 05:22 PM	#32
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	The springs I got are rated at 16lbs an inch. They are 1 inch tall. My first mount I had them compresses 1/8" and the second was 1/4" and the third back to 1/8" and that is what I have on the 4th mount. Mount 4: 14.75C. At this point load tests might not be to usefull untill I get a solid system down. I am happy with todays results though. Also I still got no answer to the question about the blocks mass? Seems to me if the block is heaver than the other then the CPU will be under more pressure if you use the same spring height? as the blocks weight will add to it?

04-01-2005, 06:32 PM	#33
freeloadingbum Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: winnipeg Posts: 129	Wow. Looking only at the three 8lb load mounts (excluding the overloaded one), there is only .25c total difference. I would have expected more variation using such a light load.

04-03-2005, 08:35 PM	#37
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Well I am done for now. I killed my ECS K7S5A by accedently shorting the bios out on a peice of metal. No big loss as a new one is pocket change. But I do need a new mobo. So I am going to round up a new mobo for my main system and use my Abit KD7 for the test bench being it is already socket modded and it reads from the diode I belive....... I also want to pick up the Maxim diode reader kit pH uses and give that an attempt. Back to work tomorrow... Nice 5 days off, went by way to fast...

04-04-2005, 09:32 PM	#43
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	I just ordered 2 of these http://usa.aopen.com/Products/mb/AK77-600N.htm from neweggs refurb section for $US28.00 each. Sounds like a decent board. Should get them at the end of the week. Monday headed to Chula Vista California for a few weeks.. Hoping these boards will get in Friday so I can get some more data. These boards appear to have some decent overclocking ability so I can try and up the wattage some. I also have an older XP1600+ that has a much larger die on it that the XP1700+ I am using now. Might try that chip to...

04-06-2005, 07:37 PM	#44
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Well looks like a truck load of steel got misplaced and will not be delivered untill Monday to our shop. This means I have Tomorrow and Friday off. 4 day weekend before going on a road trip to CA for a few weeks. FedEx says 2 mobo's will be here Friday. So I am going to pull my Abit KD7 out of my main desktop and put it in the bench tonight being it has good overclocking options and no one will use that comp untill this weekend. Will put an Aopen board in the desktop when it gets here and the other one will go to a file server. That will keep the people that use the desktop happy this weekend (which is why I can't use it to log temps from the bench). Any way will report back when things are setup and runing. This board has diode monitoring available aswell so I will cheack that against my probe under the CPU. I am also planning on putting one of the YSI RTD probes in the loop from my cole parmer thermometer. Thats a nice unit and will like to get it in the mix for the hell of it. I am going to calibrate it with the CF633 probes to get an idea whats what. So I will have a YSI and a CF633 taking water in temps. That will keep me entertained for a while.

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