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General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums.

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Unread 01-17-2002, 02:02 PM   #26
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Here are the results for the XP1600+ at 1.85Vcore at 1400MHZ.

This is the CPU temp from external probe that is touching the side of the core.

____________________________________________

This is the room temp.

____________________________________________

This is what the onboard thermistor reads.

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This is what it lookes like installed from the outside.
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Unread 01-17-2002, 02:05 PM   #27
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What do you get using toast?
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Unread 01-17-2002, 02:08 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by webmedic
What do you get using toast?
1.5C warmer.
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Unread 01-19-2002, 01:34 PM   #29
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see I knew that aluminum can compete with copper in simalure designs. I cant wait to see what Joe does with my copper spiral and aluminum spiral, I want to see if there is any change what so ever, maybe we can break this copper is better beacuse BS
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Unread 01-19-2002, 08:33 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by webmedic
What do you get using toast?
What about cpuburn?
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Unread 01-19-2002, 08:43 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Butcher


What about cpuburn?
Using the K7 part it was the same as toast. Maybe a few degrees F difference. I ran both tests several times before and never had any real differnece between toast and the K7 part of CPU Burn.

Nothing I ran could get me over 35.5C. I am currently running the XP1600+@1553mhz 148FSB 2.05Vcore and load temps are 35C with room temp of 27C. Can't measure water temp because that is the probe I used on the bottom of the block.
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Unread 01-19-2002, 09:05 PM   #32
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Your room is 27C woah you must sweat a gallon. It's comfortably warm in here and it's only 22C.
Still that's a nice setup, a water temp probe would be nice though, maybe you could hook up the xp thermal diode and put your probe back in the water
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Unread 01-19-2002, 09:40 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Butcher
Your room is 27C woah you must sweat a gallon. It's comfortably warm in here and it's only 22C.
Still that's a nice setup, a water temp probe would be nice though, maybe you could hook up the xp thermal diode and put your probe back in the water
Well it gets real toasty in here with three overclocked comps running SETI, two monitors, and a TV. The room is only 12'x12'. If I open the window it will drop to 19C rather quick being it is only 0C outside right now. Been snowing for 2 days. At least I don't need to turn on the electric heat. 27C isn't so bad actually. In the summer it gets over 30C in here. I am on the top story of an Apt building with the room window pointed west. gets ALL the sun during the day. The AC is down the hall and around a corner so not alot makes it this far. I can usually keep it around 85F if I leave the AC on all the time in the hot part of the summer. In any even I have to set the comps back to stock setting when it gets that hot in here. With a room temp of over 90F it is hard to keep a stable OC'ed system cool.
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Unread 01-20-2002, 04:06 PM   #34
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fix, I think people are going to say that Joe's testing sucks because Al and Cu get the same results.

we know it isn't, but then most people won't listen
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Unread 01-21-2002, 12:27 PM   #35
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c'mon, I know everyone wants one of these:




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Unread 01-21-2002, 01:47 PM   #36
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how do you mount that?
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Unread 01-21-2002, 05:29 PM   #37
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Brad,



I coiuld give a rats ass what other people think about Joes testing. I have done my testing, jay has done his....... and well, I dont like machining copper. Its a pain in the ass. Aluminum is much more suited for this work. I may stop the copper blocks all together. Who knows.

Btw Jay, I am happy to see that some of my advice worked for you, its all about helping each other. Now lets see some pics of your mill setup. Btw, the watercooling your spindle moter, That is a good idea, HEHEHE I have my aircompressor cylender watercooled. Keeps the condensation down in the tank. Great minds............ followed by something else.....


Jood work, Btw is the rubber seal holding up?
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Unread 01-21-2002, 07:23 PM   #38
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yeah I know fix.

I think it has partly to do with Al having a specific heat capacity 3 times as much as Cu, even though it's thermal conductivity is half as much
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Unread 01-21-2002, 07:38 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fixittt
Brad,



I coiuld give a rats ass what other people think about Joes testing. I have done my testing, jay has done his....... and well, I dont like machining copper. Its a pain in the ass. Aluminum is much more suited for this work. I may stop the copper blocks all together. Who knows.

Btw Jay, I am happy to see that some of my advice worked for you, its all about helping each other. Now lets see some pics of your mill setup. Btw, the watercooling your spindle moter, That is a good idea, HEHEHE I have my aircompressor cylender watercooled. Keeps the condensation down in the tank. Great minds............ followed by something else.....


Jood work, Btw is the rubber seal holding up?
I havn't even had a chance to get the rubber yet. What I did was use the industrial Silicone we use at work and it kicks ass!!! Not a drop of water leaking in 4 days now!!! Temps are still good aswell. It will not be my final answer but it sure works good in a pinch.

As for the mill I still have yet to get to it. I am going to wrap the motor with hose and run water through it. I have a Heater core and a 500GPH pump all waiting.

I started work again today(my full time job) and am just out of time. I have been moving around and welding 100's of pounds of steel all day and am just wore out by the time I get home. This weekend I am going to try and mill out what stock I have left and get the water cooler for the mill put together so when I have a free day I can mess with stuff. I have 13pcs. of Copper cut to length I need to do something with. I shutter at the though of milling it though. I think I am going to do a basic double channel on them and get rid of them ASAP.

I need to find a place on-line that sells that rubber as the place I was going to get it localy is closes the same time I get off work and is not open on weekends. Thats the only place in town that sells the stuff to. I am pretty certain it will work well though. I may even coat the rubber with that silicone aswell. That Silicone is dirt cheap being I can get it free from work. One tube will do 100 blocks.

Here is a pic of my mill anyway right from the site I bought it at. Once I get the water cooler on I will post some more pics.

http://www.acumotion.com/mill.htm

I got the 5400 model.

Also note that is the plain mill, I got the CNC conversion for it and it is VERY tight for a conversion!!! Hardly any slop at all.

Last edited by jaydee116; 01-21-2002 at 07:41 PM.
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Unread 01-21-2002, 08:30 PM   #40
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Here is my mill sitting in its new stainless steel encloure I made at work, The small vice was made by paul at work, he made that thing in a few hours with out any prints, just pulled it from his brain. We also made a new stiffer motor mount with dove tail slides to make belt changes easyer and faster.
The box helps contain chips and coolant.


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Unread 01-21-2002, 08:51 PM   #41
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I just about bought that mill but couldn't get answers quick enough from MaxNC. I was going for the 10" though(that looks like the 15"?). The one I got now is a little smaller than yours and a slower Spindle speed. Mine is adjustable from 75-3000rpm. I would have liked to got around 5000rpm or more for the PCB board but what I got looks like it should handle it. 3000 is just about right for Aluminum anyway.

I need to make a box like that. I have been holding off untill I figured out the water cooler setup.
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Unread 01-21-2002, 09:01 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brad
yeah I know fix.

I think it has partly to do with Al having a specific heat capacity 3 times as much as Cu, even though it's thermal conductivity is half as much
But Al has much less density. So for a given volume Cu has more heat capacity than Al.
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Unread 01-21-2002, 09:05 PM   #43
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yeah that is the maxNC15 its the open loop, didnt want to put down another $1000 for the close loop setup. I love the mill, although it does make a hell of a mess in the box. Better in the box, then all over my garage floor.

BTW I am playing in Solid works and drew a block design something like yours, but with 5/8 channels. Its on a 3x2.5x .5 material. I think it would be a good setup for the bigger hose people. Lets see if I can take a screen shot.....

Here we go


Yeah the maxnc 10 I dont think is worth a crap, to small. The 15 does copper pretty dang good, if you do it slow and light. Takes forever though.

Nah Nah NEE BOO BOO! My mill is bigger then yours !!!!! :P
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Unread 01-21-2002, 10:34 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fixittt


Nah Nah NEE BOO BOO! My mill is bigger then yours !!!!! :P
Bahhhh!!!! Hey that drawing looks good. I like the idea of bigger chnnels instead of longer thin channels like the maze2. I think thats it's biggest draw back is the 3/8" channels. Although it still does damn good.

Thats was my main goal when I made mine was large wide channels to let the water do it's thing. I am very happy with my results. Especially at a flow rate of 60GPH!!! I tested that the other day using a 1gallon jug and timming how fast it took to fill it. Just a second over 1minute which comes out to close to 60GPH.
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Unread 01-21-2002, 11:03 PM   #45
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What pump was that with? I get 50 gph thrrough my current super-restrictive system
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Unread 01-22-2002, 09:03 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by Butcher
What pump was that with? I get 50 gph thrrough my current super-restrictive system
"Little Giant" 1-EA-42. The problem with this one is EMI. I need to keep it a foot away from anything. Other than that it a great pump. Has been running in-line 24/7 for 6 months now. Quite to.
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Unread 01-22-2002, 11:09 AM   #47
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Fixittt, that mill is so sweet looking, I would love to have something like that to play with.

Personally I think AL is an OK material for waterblocks, I mean if temps are as close as both of you show then there really isn't much of a justification to using CU, especially if the blocks would be cheaper and more plentifull to the end user. Personally I would love to get my hands on a $25 or so AL Spir@l. I do have 2 concerns though and I believe they should be given consideration by both of you.

First is base thickness on AL blocks, obivously the ideal thickness is going to be different than CU. An experiment where you start with a thick base (ie 7 or 8mm) then slowly mill the base like .5mm at a time untill you find the optimal thickness would be in order. This easy experiment would not only improve the performance of your blocks but would deffiniatly shed some light on a major issue in waterblock design that I feel has been greatly ignored...I know it would get you my buisness and respect!!

Second is the whole corrosion issue. As you can see by recent posts there is some questions of Water Wetter's and especially Purple Ice's ability to prevet corrosion, and the tests show it may even cause it! I personally have no oppinion on this as I have not done any testing on mixed metals, and have ALWAYS made it a point to use all CU and Brass in my setups. If I were to go to AL I would like to see some proof that corrosion WILL NOT occure with either water treatment (ie additives) or by annodizing your blocks. Frankly, I believe I would send an AL Block to Faraday and get it annodized anyway, but if you are going to produce all AL blocks then this reassurance through doccumented testing is deffiniatly going to put some potential buyer's minds at ease.

Well sorry for the long post guys, just letting you know what one long time water user's oppinions are on your perspective designs and some questions/comments/concerns I have. I hope you read them and take some of it inot consideration. I am very impressed by both of your work, and am looking to see great things in the future.
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Unread 01-22-2002, 12:03 PM   #48
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You did make some good points decoded........ and true, a thicker base is inorder for aluminum. to five it more heat transfer mass.


As far as the corrosion issue. I ran an aluminum block for about 4 monthos in a mixed metal setup. CU rad, aluminum Res. brass fittings with dist. water and 3 oz of watter wetter per gallon. (no my system did not hold a gallon of water, it was pre mixed in a gallon jug) and I did notice a little grey discoloration in the water channel, but no biuld up, and no deteriaoration (man my spelling sucks, but I dont care) either way I would still recomend running 1 OZ of per gallon of good quality anti-freeze in any mixed metal setup. and yes, being made of aluminum would make them easyer/faster to make. therefore being more plentifull.
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Unread 01-22-2002, 12:29 PM   #49
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I'd say go for it Fixittt, especially if you were to supply an AL and CU block to a 3rd party tester like Joe or pHaestus to show there really isn't much difference. I would be all over less expensive AL blocks as I consider myself a "budget" overclocker.
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Unread 01-22-2002, 03:06 PM   #50
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fix, to compare the results of high flow, instead of making fewer channels that are wide, why not keep the same amount of channels, but increase their height. This would give you the increase in flow you are after, but keep a high amount of surface area.

Lastly, I'd like to see you have a design with one inlet and two outlets, and sell it with a little manifold type thing as well. This way you could have a 5/8" inlet, and 2x 1/2" outlets, or something like that, then have two radiators, then go into the manifold, or have the manifold straight after the block to go into one radiator. That'd be cool.

What do you think of what I just uploaded
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