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General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums.

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Unread 02-17-2002, 08:14 AM   #1
#Rotor
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any Phase changers out here ???

just wondering, as I noticed it is the "liquid or phase change " section.

I'm actually doing both... the liquid and the phase change..... eermm, no actually all tree.... the peltiers as well.... in other words I'm running duel Drift-0.8 LC'ed with a phase change (R134-a) liquid cooler....
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Unread 02-17-2002, 08:48 AM   #2
surlyjoe
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ya man!! I have 3 working units I just yanked out of the cabinets, 1 old ice maker, 1 refer, and 1 coke machine. I'm gettin ready to make a little server cab. outa the coke machine guts, and a water chiller outa the ice macine, I think I also might try to hack the evaporator off the fridge guts and try a beehive type evap "vapochill" style.. right now I'm feelin uncle sam's squeeze , but as soon as I get some coin, I'll be back at it
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Unread 02-17-2002, 12:52 PM   #3
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I have an old SONIC jucie chiller in my garage that has a phase change system in it, I am sure you have seen it on my site, I will prolly get around to doing something with it.



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Unread 02-17-2002, 12:56 PM   #4
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Rotor, glad to see you here man, the H forum seems to be loosing meaning full content for me.

Hey do me a flavor..... I did some small write ups on making waterblocks over at

www.custom-cooling.com.
I just uploaded the seond write up so JAYDEE will have to post it, but have a look see, and see if there is anything I left out, or if there is anything you would like to add. I know you make some good stuff, and I have always looked up to you in that sence.
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Unread 02-17-2002, 01:07 PM   #5
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Running a fridge powered water chiller. Currently working on direct refrigeration like the Vapochill rig but hoping to come up with a design that most home users can build themselves.
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Unread 02-17-2002, 04:05 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fixittt
Rotor, glad to see you here man, the H forum seems to be loosing meaning full content for me.

Hey do me a flavor..... I did some small write ups on making waterblocks over at

www.custom-cooling.com.
I just uploaded the seond write up so JAYDEE will have to post it, but have a look see, and see if there is anything I left out, or if there is anything you would like to add. I know you make some good stuff, and I have always looked up to you in that sence.
I will get it posted this evening.
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Unread 02-17-2002, 05:35 PM   #7
#Rotor
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Fixitt, it be an honor for me to give it a look. I here you about [H] I think it's because there is too many of the same questions, all over the entire board, there are 3different Questions being asked with slightly differing wording,

what is the best radiator
what is the best block..... and of coarse....
Suck or blow.........


and yes it gets to me too but I found it better that, than nobody even interested in our hobby. all this is telling me, it is starting to become main stream, I can still remember that day in Aug 1997, when I set out to go find me the meanest P2 heatsink on the planet.... ended up having to make my own the rest is history.... damn I think I still have the AutoCAD drawing for the scroud to fit a 120mm fan to that heatsink....
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Unread 02-17-2002, 05:45 PM   #8
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It is posted. http://www.custom-cooling.com/ Links are on the left. The pics load real slow though. My host sucks. If we get more traffic I will get a faster host.
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Unread 02-17-2002, 05:51 PM   #9
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looks good..... the pics load fast for me
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Unread 02-17-2002, 06:00 PM   #10
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Quote:
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looks good..... the pics load fast for me
Well thats good. The host is unreliable. Sometimes it is fast sometimes it is slow and usually it is in the middle.
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Unread 02-17-2002, 07:50 PM   #11
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WEll Rotor what did U think? I was in a nyquil induced state at the time of writing, I couldnt sleep last night for all the hacking and coughing. Did I leave anything out that you would like to add?
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Unread 02-17-2002, 07:56 PM   #12
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It's awesome to see y'all with real vapor-phase cooling! I'm hoping that you will be kind to the overview I sent to Joe. Perhaps it will stimulate more people to join the refrigeration bandwagon if they know how it works and the basics behind rolling their own solution. Even better, start more conversation on how yours works and how you tweaked it to perform at its maximum!

Anyone use R-12 or propane instead of R-134a? How about die-hard CO2 or hard-core nitrogen systems? Anyone using cascaded (dual or triple!) loops? Who made a custom evaporator to directly cool the CPU core? Can it compare to a larger evaporator which uses a larger surface area to cool a liquid such as water or methanol or antifreeze (or mixtures of the above) ? Anyone actually use methanol instead of antifreeze for the improved thermal properties?
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Unread 02-17-2002, 09:20 PM   #13
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I was 'in-between-jobs' from Sept to Dec. last year, and had the time to rip the compressor out of a bar fridge...

I know some folks are gonna say something about bar fridges, but many people (myself included) feel that the compressors are fine, as long as you have enough of a condensor for the heat load.

I have a condensor out of an 87 CRX, and a friend who's dad is in HVAC repair, so I may get him to set me up w/ a nice condensor...

I was thinking about using an old 'copper-cap' waterblock I made up a while back (a-la-SurlyJoe) and cool the die directly, but water chilled-cooling is much easier to implement...I haven't decided yet

I also have 2 ac window units in the basement from my brother-in-law, but again, back to work is keeping me really busy (software engineer)

Rotor: Welcome, and yes, I absolutely agree about the [H] forum going down the sewer. Bradford is very nice, I've played golf at Bradford Highlands a couple of times. Glad to see you will be contributing your input to this board.
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Unread 02-17-2002, 09:38 PM   #14
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Fixitt, I can add nothing to what you have there.... it is very well writen, enough info to give the somewhat knowlagable reader something to think about, but not too much to scare the new guy into sticking with his heatsink and fan....

thanks for the welcome, it be a privilege to share what I know with you guys, but I'm sure I will be the one that is going to do some learning myself too..... old dogs CAN learn new tricks, just have to be kicked a bit harder... I'm joking....

now, on the subject of evaporator size.... I have never had a system with a small evap, but If you go by first principles, it does not matter how you look at it.... more surface area will always be better...... I guess the compromise come in with the physical size that increases, hence representing a bigger thermal leak..... thus insulation becomes a much more critical part of the performance equation....
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Unread 02-18-2002, 12:29 AM   #15
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I know a guy who lives near me, he has a 1/6hp compressor, cooling a body of water which is pumped around with a 4000 litre per hour pump, it can go down to -10C water temp with an AXP pushing 1900mhz, very cool system

what are the specs of your system rotor?
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Unread 02-18-2002, 05:59 AM   #16
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here is my old rig
http://3rotor.dns2go.com/images/project_A7V/index.html


here is my new one
http://3rotor.dns2go.com/images/Proj...460/index.html

the chiller.........

http://3rotor.dns2go.com/images/customers/B_P/
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Unread 02-18-2002, 10:48 AM   #17
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I have come across a really interesting refrigerant today and had a very informative discussion with their technical manager today. The key point is that this refrigerant can go straight into old R12 based systems and use the same lubricants and is more efficient than R134A. I have downloaded the thermodynamic profiles for it and it looks really good. Details are available at this site;
http://www.greencool.co.uk
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Unread 02-18-2002, 01:12 PM   #18
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Why use an expensive chemical like R-411B? If you have an R-12 based system, just use propane. The characteristics of propane are nearly identical to R-12, and propane is very easy to find. You might need to use a larger dryer if the propane is contaminated with moisture, but it is a drop-in replacement.

Although, it looks like R-411B is more efficient than propane or R-22 or R-12 or R-134a. Interesting.
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Unread 02-18-2002, 02:10 PM   #19
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The quoted price was +-£100/14Kg. I am going to try and find out what recharge would cost for the 100g I will need. Having looked at the Mollier diagram I am very impressed.
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Unread 03-14-2002, 01:45 PM   #20
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First off, I was wondering where all the "talent" from the [H] had disappeared to, now I know. lol And after spending a couple years around [H], under various names...I never realized #Rotor was Canadian, never mind lived a half hour from me. lol Cheers bro.

Anyway,
I've been toying with the idea of phase change cooling for awhile, and I've decided I'm going to do a water/phase change set-up. The route that seems to be the most cost effective/simple, is a 5cu ft freezer with a heat exchanger plumbed through. I'm not looking for sub-zero temps, I'd just like 15-20C drop under load. (At 28C load, I can break 1.8 ghz...cold night, window open)Space is at a premium, so I could go with the freezer, but I'm trying to find a smaller alternative.

Can anyone point me to a good how-to on modded dehumidifier coolers?...assuming as well that they can be quieted down a lot, and still work. I want to keep my options open, before jumping in to this. (Trust me, that's a new approach )
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Unread 03-14-2002, 02:06 PM   #21
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Well if you took an old junked fridge with the freezer compartment in the top and carefully removed all the vital components and then built a custom insulated res (make it out of styrofoam) which the evaporator can go into you could make a nice little compact unit that would give sub-0. Alternatively do the same thing with a fridge that has the evaporattor at the back. They are designed to hold the contents of a fridge at 0-5C and will probably give you around the 10-12C mark with plain water.
If you want a "how to" go look here at the article I wrote on my own system. Box or chest type freezers are a bit complicated to convert because the evaporator is piped all the way around the box
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Last edited by TigerOats; 03-14-2002 at 02:09 PM.
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Unread 03-14-2002, 02:20 PM   #22
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here is a good site awith some instructions on phase change. http://www.wizard.com/~scfoster/freoncool.html
another cool site with info on temp and refrigeration in general is http://3rotor.dns2go.com/htmls/my_pc/Ref_p.html (I beleave this is #rotor's page.)
hope that helps.
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Unread 03-14-2002, 03:00 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by surlyjoe
ya man!! I have 3 working units I just yanked out of the cabinets, 1 old ice maker, 1 refer, and 1 coke machine. I'm gettin ready to make a little server cab. outa the coke machine guts, and a water chiller outa the ice macine, I think I also might try to hack the evaporator off the fridge guts and try a beehive type evap "vapochill" style.. right now I'm feelin uncle sam's squeeze , but as soon as I get some coin, I'll be back at it

update
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Unread 03-14-2002, 06:49 PM   #24
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SNOW BALL FIGHT!!!!!!

That is COOL slurry! Now, are we going to make a res around that, or are you going to disasemble that setup and pump the regeraint thrue a block on the core?

inquiring minds want to know!
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Unread 03-14-2002, 07:26 PM   #25
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Wow, am I ever having an A.D.D. day. Just realized #Rotor has a fully illustrated dehumidifier build on his site.
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