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General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums.

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Unread 07-14-2002, 04:24 PM   #26
Skulemate
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If I may add something about the Little Giant 3-MD-SC (see Hellion's post, above). It is powerful, yes, but runs fairly hot to the touch, and being air cooled itself, is louder than most pumps around... I'd say it's about as loud as my Sunon 43 cfm case fans, though lower in pitch.
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Unread 07-15-2002, 12:08 AM   #27
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Hehe, good to see a little giant fellow user. I just got my Little Giant 2-MD-SC fixed (bought it from ebay for $20, took the whole thing apart to get the danm bearings loose from rust) Chugs water like MAD. I'm sure the 3-MD-SC is even better Yeah they do run hot and noise it hmm.. I don't know. just more noise (it sounds cool though, kinda like "HAAAAaaaaa" to me)
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Unread 10-01-2002, 11:15 AM   #28
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I picked up a Little Giant 2-MDQ-SC, last Saturday, for a mere $40 at a flea market. I haven't tested it yet, but here's some info:

510 gph @ 1'
465 gph @ 3'
410 gph @ 6'
250 gph @ 12'
shut-off at 14.4' (about 4.4m)

1.6 amps (1/30 hp)
182 Watts
good for fresh and saltwater
in-line only

1/2 NPT (male) outlet
1/2 NPT (female) inlet

This pump, although it sucks up a lot of current, is actually a hybrid of "direct" and "mag" drive. It is also designed for a higher pressure.

(Thanks to Larry Browning over at OC for the chart)Larry Browning's article
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Unread 10-01-2002, 11:54 AM   #29
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Here's the curve for the Eheim series (thanks to nikhsub1)
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Unread 10-01-2002, 02:27 PM   #30
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Any people/manufacturers have data on pump heat output in Watts?
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Unread 10-01-2002, 04:09 PM   #31
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Maxi Jet MJ1000
silent one...
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Unread 10-01-2002, 04:13 PM   #32
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Iwaki makes some of the best pumps ever, although pricey! I am after the MD20rlt, flows 480 GPH @ 14Ft. head. Very powerful.
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Unread 10-01-2002, 06:41 PM   #33
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use an Iwaki MD-70RLZ, among others
quite excessive for WCing (see chart in above post)

nikhsub1
you will be better served with the 20RZT
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Unread 10-01-2002, 06:41 PM   #34
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I suppose I'll add in with one of the pumps I own...

Sicce Idra made in Italy
306gph@7ft
1300lph@2.2m
A Panaflo M1A drowns out any sound from it

It is the smallest pump I own, way way smaller than my Eheim 1250 and has nearly the specs to match. It has a 1/2" NPT exhaust and a 5/8" OD fixed tube for the intake. It's a great pump but very hard to find in the US from what I've seen, and when you do find it be prepaired to pay about equivelent to an Eheim for it.
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Unread 10-12-2002, 09:18 AM   #35
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I do not own one of these, just got asked to quote someone on a custom block for one of these sweeties....

http://www.customsealife.com/NewFiles/velocity.html

now the design I came up with for a block looks like this....

pic01

pic02

pic03

our problem is the aluminum shoes that is to fit around the pump body.... I have no milling equipment and therefor am to depend on a machine shop to rip us off... any of you budding top-notch engineers here might be willing to chirp in...

I designed this setup in such a way that it can be used with different size pumps, just by swapping out the aluminum parts, the actual water-blocks are all copper and bolt onto the shoes.
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Unread 10-13-2002, 07:01 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by nikhsub1
Iwaki makes some of the best pumps ever, although pricey! I am after the MD20rlt, flows 480 GPH @ 14Ft. head. Very powerful.
Actually you are reading the chart wrong.......its 480 at 0 head. at 14ft head its 60gph accoring to the chart you posted.......Unless of course you are refering to the high pressure model but that is the RXT not the RLT.........

I have that exact pump though (the RLT) and its great........very very quiet and plenty of flow and power........
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Unread 10-17-2002, 10:33 PM   #37
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Man oh man! Haha what a laugh, all of these pumps that most of you are proposing are HUGE!!! And would not even be practical for IN-CASE design, let alone the flow rate would be massively overkill. With flow rates that fast, there would hardly be any time for the water to absorb most of the heat that it WOULD if you had a much slower flow-rate... BUT it would beneficial for say if you reduced your Radiator outlet size so that the water would spend MORE time in it, getting cooled longer and with the brute force provided by the pump, the overall flow rate wouldn't suffer nearly as much! Like I said, sounds like an external job, oh yeah, might want to check your next electric bill when you realize that you've been running your ~100watt+ pump all month, nearly 24/7? Haha..... Lets SEE some pics of some rational pumps that aren't THAT industrial looking and surely NOT overpriced (echo echo echo) Ehiem*cough*Danner*cough*Lil`Giant*cough *cough*!
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Unread 10-17-2002, 10:52 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by V12|V12
Man oh man! Haha what a laugh, all of these pumps that most of you are proposing are HUGE!!! And would not even be practical for IN-CASE design, let alone the flow rate would be massively overkill. With flow rates that fast, there would hardly be any time for the water to absorb most of the heat that it WOULD if you had a much slower flow-rate... BUT it would beneficial for say if you reduced your Radiator outlet size so that the water would spend MORE time in it, getting cooled longer and with the brute force provided by the pump, the overall flow rate wouldn't suffer nearly as much! Like I said, sounds like an external job, oh yeah, might want to check your next electric bill when you realize that you've been running your ~100watt+ pump all month, nearly 24/7? Haha..... Lets SEE some pics of some rational pumps that aren't THAT industrial looking and surely NOT overpriced (echo echo echo) Ehiem*cough*Danner*cough*Lil`Giant*cough *cough*!
LOL.......new to water cooling? Not enough time for the water to absorb the heat???? Electric bill??? 100 watt light bulb ring any bells for you?
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Unread 10-17-2002, 10:59 PM   #39
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Someone doesn't know how restrictive the popular heater cores are?

100gph used to be okay for a pump back when people used tube style radiators. But after someone discovered that the heater core out of the heater in a car also works well and has a larger surface area, flow was restricted and had to be increased...

Also Stacked Plate radiators are also part of that.

Oh yeah, brute force usually creates heat or unwanted pressure. Superchargers use brute force compression to force air into your engine...it works...but it creates heat...and pressure(but we want the pressure).
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Unread 10-17-2002, 11:41 PM   #40
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if their is a pump inside your case, generating emi, wouldn't that effect your hard drives after awhile????????
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Unread 10-18-2002, 01:49 AM   #41
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Well, well, the mud has been slung? I'm not going to get into it, but if you so called "educated" persons, took ANY college thermodynamics/physics courses, you'd KNOW by de-facto that colder objects ABSORB HEAT! That's HOW they cool faster moving particles (heat), buy ABSORBING the excess energy they produce! You can have a flow rate of 10000000GPH but it wont mean a DAMN thing, unless the cooling medium has TIME to ABSORB the heat from the producing medium. It's a simple fact of thermodynamics, but I guess, so-called water-cooling wanna-be's out there think that MORE is better, which is totally false in terms of cooling.

And for the FLAWED super charger analogy.... Dude, of COURSE ALL forms of forced induction blowers (turbos, supers) produce excess heat, that's why most of them are cooled with liquid-jackets, hence oil-cooled turbos/water cooled inner-coolers and water cooled super chargers... before you make an example which does NOT at all relate, THINK first, or take a college class before you start spouting off examples that don't apply...

Simple test: You don't think 100W+ (notice the PLUS sign I indicated in the first post) source will add noticeable amounts of $ to your bills? Try leaving on a 100W bulb 20hrs/day for a month and SEE the difference in your bill... obviously you my friend, are NEW to paying your own bills with out mommy and daddy's lending hand? Hmmmm..... Cheers.

No offense, but seriously... read up before slamming folks, you'll learn a lot more from some simple relection of thought...
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Unread 10-18-2002, 02:05 AM   #42
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While I think you have a point with your lightbulb argument (thankfully I pay a flat rate for my power) you'd do well to brush up on some of the thermodynamics you've taken. While I am nowhere near as well versed on these things as some others are, I've learned that the convection that transfers the heat from our metal blocks to the water is highly dependent on the velocity of the fluid, among other things. And since flowrate and velocity are related, I'd say that you're blowing smoke on this one. If you want a better reply than this you can turn to someone like Dave (myv65) or even Bill... though he'll likely send you to Google. In any case, these forums, along with Dave's good articles at AMDMB can help dispell this and other watercooling myths.
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Unread 10-18-2002, 08:43 AM   #43
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Right on Skulemate.

V12|V12: You're WAY off topic here. That aside, you just showed us all that you "don't get it". Start a new thread and we'll be more than happy to clear this up for you, with plenty of references.

Back to topic posts only, PLEASE!!!
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Unread 10-19-2002, 02:54 AM   #44
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Cooltechnica and Dangerden will have Hydor L20 (185 GPH) and L30(320 GPH) in stock soon.

L30 is the size of Eheim 1048, but shows the same performance as the Eheim 1250.

Here's a comparison data for you guys:

Eheim 1048 = Max Flow Rate: 158GPH - Max Head: 1.5mt head -Power:10W

Hydor L20 = Max Flow Rate: 185GPH - Max Head: 1.35mt head - Power:11W

Eheim 1250 = Max Flow Rate: 317GPH - Max Head: 2mt head - Power:28W

Hydor L30 = Max Flow Rate: 320GPH - Max Head: 1.95mt head - Power:23W

They're smaller than comparable Eheims, and also going to be much cheaper (no middle men ). and Hydor pumps come with 2 years manufacturer's warranty too, just like Eheims.

I've been using Hydor pumps in my own rigs quiet for some time now. In my main rig i got 2 x L30 pumps, one before and one after the CPU block (with 226W pelt). and 2 Xtreme radis...

Bruce
www.cooltechnica.com

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Unread 10-20-2002, 12:25 PM   #45
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Hi guys

Here is some data on pumps that I use...

Eheim 1250 - red
ViaAqua 1300 - blue
Danner Supreme 2 - green
Eheim 1048 - pink

I placed each pump in an overflowing tub of water and measured the time it took to fill a 5 gallon graduated bottle. Each test was repeated three times and the resulting times averaged. 1/2" ID silicone tubing was used for all tests. The outlet of each tube into the bottle was maintained at the same height as the water level in the reservoir.

The following curves show the actual flow rate from each pump through various lengths of 1/2" ID tubing.

Pump Flow Rate vs. Tubing Length

Note there are two curves for each pump. The top curve is the flow rate with the inlet fitting of each pump removed (less flow restriction). The lower curve for each pump is with the inlet fitting attached (like it would be in an inline system). Soooo, if you are running a submerged pump, take off the inlet fitting and buy yourself a few more GPH!

This next graph shows the max discharge pressure for each pump.

Pump - Maximum Discharge Pressure

I measured this using a 10' length of tubing running from the pump discharge fitting to the ceiling. Each pump was run in a bucket of water and the water column height measured from buckets surface water level to the highest level in the tube.

Inches water column x 0.03613 = PSI

I hope you find this information usefull...

RoboTech

Images edited by request

Last edited by RoboTech; 10-20-2002 at 04:21 PM.
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Unread 10-20-2002, 01:22 PM   #46
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interesting...uh...graphs?
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Unread 10-20-2002, 01:23 PM   #47
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do you think you could please change to a normal background on those pictures, they take a shitload of time to download on 56k
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Unread 10-20-2002, 03:20 PM   #48
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Do you mind getting rid of those colored lines so I can see the curves!

I know my "discharge pressure" would be much higher than that!
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Unread 10-20-2002, 03:47 PM   #49
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I think you got the 2nd graph wrong, the Via 1300 should be around 1.8psi. Could yah change the graph to reflect that?
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Unread 10-20-2002, 04:27 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brad
do you think you could please change to a normal background on those pictures, they take a shitload of time to download on 56k
OK... done.
I'm on a 56K dial-up myself... Images were already downsized and compressed to 64K each, to optimize load times. Removing the background "curves" only reduces the overall image size from 64K to 55K, so I just changed them to links... sorry.
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