TC-4 Changes Made To The Tubulators

DodgeViper · 09-17-2002, 08:09 PM

I had removed the standard tubulators and have been cooling without. I decided to try this style and see if it will make a difference. The coils are made of copper. I used #12 solid copper used in the electrical field. It will be a week or so before the system is back up and running.

Can O' Beans · 09-18-2002, 01:28 AM

It looks good, but I think that 12ga is a bit too big. It might restrict flow too much. You should only need small wire, just enough to break up any laminar flow. I would try wire in the 20s gauge or a finer spring, etc...

DodgeViper · 09-18-2002, 08:37 AM

What is pictured is only an example. The finished product may be stretched out more and made of #14, #16, #18, or #20 copper. More photos will follow once I make the other coils.

Fixittt · 09-21-2002, 09:34 AM

well the only problem I can see with using round wire instead of a flat peice twisted is that water will just flow right around the wire. All you really did was create more surface area. With the flat tubulator you had solid flat surface chanaling the water.

My simple mind would test this by taking a round peice of water and hold it in a running stram of water, and feel the force that the water applys to the flat surface, then hold a round peice in the same flowing stream and feel the force, the water should just flow right around it with little effort.

Maybe i have just been up to long......... who knows.

DodgeViper · 09-21-2002, 10:00 AM

The only problem with your theory is by holding the wire under the stream of water, you do not have anything containing the water. With the wire in the channel, water is going to flow over and through the wire and it will be spiraling water, this causing turbulence.

bigben2k · 09-21-2002, 10:26 AM

Agreed.

Also, if the spring had good contact with the walls, it would add to the fin effect, improving cooling. I guess it'd have to be brazed into place though.

Given the above, since the channel is (essentially) square, a square spring would be better, but now we're looking at wrapping a copper wire around a square rod.

Side note: this is the type of setup that might create a sweet spot, similar to some rads or heatercores.

Either way, it'll be interesting!

decodeddiesel · 09-21-2002, 12:06 PM

I agree, I am looking forward to seeing the results from this experiment.

DodgeViper · 09-21-2002, 01:36 PM

Hold that thought. With the square channel and the spiral spring you will have openings a long the bottom/top/sides of the channel where water can flow. Then you have the center of the spiral spring where water will flow. Now this water is going to come in contact with the swirling water causing turbulence from the spiral spring. The spiral copper spring is a very tight fit to the channel....

DodgeViper · 09-21-2002, 01:46 PM

Danny at D-Tek and Nikhsub1 are both receiving a few feet of the copper spiral wire to test as both are very interested. I have space out the spiral wire so only four coils are in each channel.

nikhsub1 · 09-25-2002, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DodgeViper
Danny at D-Tek and Nikhsub1 are both receiving a few feet of the copper spiral wire to test as both are very interested. I have space out the spiral wire so only four coils are in each channel.

Got my springs! Thanks Dodge, I will install tonite or tomorrow.

DodgeViper · 10-05-2002, 10:29 AM

This post is for those that may make their own coils and replace the stock turbulators. Be very careful when tightening the machine screws. If over tighten you may crack the Lexan top. Only slight pressure is needed to seal the top.

DodgeViper · 10-09-2002, 10:10 PM

This is the setup I am going with. The rad/shroud should be done soon. An extra output barb has been added to the heater core. This eliminates using a Y inline. Having better flow.

DodgeViper · 10-09-2002, 10:12 PM

The layout. The TC-4 block will be used with the copper coils.

DodgeViper · 10-09-2002, 10:12 PM

One of the shrouds.

MadDogMe · 10-10-2002, 03:58 AM

I like the look of that!, are you gonna put a bigger *inlet(3/4?) in the block though?, other wise an equal Y(5/8inch, 11.5mm inner) would of handled the two outlets...
Aha!, I see the two sizes on the HC now

, did you make that shroud yourself?, nice..., are you gonna solder it direct to the HC?.

DodgeViper · 10-10-2002, 05:57 AM

Here is an article I wrote on making the shroud/heater core. CLICK

MeltMan · 10-10-2002, 01:47 PM

Dont agreee..

I agree with Fixittt.

Why is the water forced to spin with the wire? Its not. With the old solid pieces the water was forced to channel around the block, but with the wire, all you are doing is making your channel smaller. Look down the wire (through the spring). What do you see that is going to make that water spin? Jack, thats what. You are just putting a tube inside of a tube making it smaller.

Good luck with the experiment though...

bigben2k · 10-10-2002, 01:54 PM

the point wasn't to make the water spin, it was to help break up the surface tension, at the channel walls. This "conversion" turns the TC-4 back into a Maze1, with a "twist"...

As it's been demonstrated, it does work.

Blackeagle · 10-25-2002, 09:58 PM

This block seems reversed compared to other 3 barb block designs. Why wouldn't you have a large center inlet with the flow splitting and going out the 2 corner barbs? Wouldn't the coldest water coming into the center above the center of the core at the highest heat point offer a advantage?

The copper coils are a real interesting idea.

gone_fishin · 10-26-2002, 01:19 AM

I see it as good marketing hype but where is the undeniable proof of a gain. So far from what I can gather the claims of any gain are within the limits of a good or bad mounting. Such is the market.

DodgeViper · 10-26-2002, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gone_fishin
I see it as good marketing hype but where is the undeniable proof of a gain. So far from what I can gather the claims of any gain are within the limits of a good or bad mounting. Such is the market.

GF, I have had my say with you once before with your text covered over hyped sales pitched block that you make. You do not own a TC-4, so how can you make this statement. Again you’re shooting from the hip and spreading your B/S again in yet another thread. You would have felt right at home if I had take the photo of the coils installed, and had the viewers guessing whats inside with flashing text spread across the image.

MadDogMe · 10-26-2002, 08:22 AM

I never noticed that!, why have you used the centre barb as an outlet?, I'd have gone with it as inlet myself, for the colder water and as a jetted point for added turbulance/impingment.

PS. I'd try and make the coils kinda 'spiralled' in shape, like two cones/funnels that have the small points meeting in the middle
>< kinda thing, ><><><>< would be eveen better!.
the idea's to prevent water taking an easy route through the middle and improve turbulance even more!.

I'm going to try something like this in my Maze3 only in the middle though, cause the two channels that go into one are just lowering flowrate over the (vital) core area. so I can get away with taking up half the volume with turbulator devices

...(as you can if you dont mind keeping original flow rate, imagine the increased flowspeed/velocity)

gone_fishin · 10-26-2002, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DodgeViper
GF, I have had my say with you once before with your text covered over hyped sales pitched block that you make. You do not own a TC-4, so how can you make this statement. Again you’re shooting from the hip and spreading your B/S again in yet another thread. You would have felt right at home if I had take the photo of the coils installed, and had the viewers guessing whats inside with flashing text spread across the image.

The TC-4 is a basic wide channel maze, obviously in need of help to stay in the running, otherwise why the attempt to modify it? Again I ask where is the real proof of any gain?

I am tempted to buy one but I already have a Spiral and see no need to get the TC-4. Which incidently should be able to benefit from your curly cues if what you claim is true.

Ok, here's some more "hype" for ya since ya mentioned it

The TC-4 would not outperform my block despite the text covered flashy photos you love to hate.

DodgeViper · 10-26-2002, 08:45 PM

Quote:

[i]Ok, here's some more "hype" for ya since ya mentioned it

The TC-4 would not outperform my block despite the text covered flashy photos you love to hate. [/b]

Honestly who really cares about your block.....

Blackeagle · 10-26-2002, 09:45 PM

The flow in this one may be turning "south" with a vengence.

I'm new so I'm just going to go ahead a ask a question here, I hope this doesn't add fuel to the fire however.

Gone Fishin,

What is your block design, and why do you feel it is better than this mod of the TC-4? Not trying to be a wise a$$, just interested in differant ideas. And is your block on the market, or going to be?

09-21-2002, 09:34 AM	#4
Fixittt CNC Beyatch Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tulsa Spell it backwards Posts: 721	well the only problem I can see with using round wire instead of a flat peice twisted is that water will just flow right around the wire. All you really did was create more surface area. With the flat tubulator you had solid flat surface chanaling the water. My simple mind would test this by taking a round peice of water and hold it in a running stram of water, and feel the force that the water applys to the flat surface, then hold a round peice in the same flowing stream and feel the force, the water should just flow right around it with little effort. Maybe i have just been up to long......... who knows. __________________ Creator of the Spir@l Block Longest post ever http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&postid=43808#post43808

09-21-2002, 10:26 AM	#6
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Agreed. Also, if the spring had good contact with the walls, it would add to the fin effect, improving cooling. I guess it'd have to be brazed into place though. Given the above, since the channel is (essentially) square, a square spring would be better, but now we're looking at wrapping a copper wire around a square rod. Side note: this is the type of setup that might create a sweet spot, similar to some rads or heatercores. Either way, it'll be interesting! __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

09-21-2002, 12:06 PM	#7
decodeddiesel Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: classified Posts: 534	I agree, I am looking forward to seeing the results from this experiment. __________________ ...i hurt... do me a favor, disconect me... they can re-work me but i'll never be top of the line again ...i'd rather be nothing...

10-10-2002, 01:47 PM	#17
MeltMan Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: KS Posts: 374	Dont agreee.. I agree with Fixittt. Why is the water forced to spin with the wire? Its not. With the old solid pieces the water was forced to channel around the block, but with the wire, all you are doing is making your channel smaller. Look down the wire (through the spring). What do you see that is going to make that water spin? Jack, thats what. You are just putting a tube inside of a tube making it smaller. Good luck with the experiment though... __________________ MeltMan Lurker Supreme!

09-17-2002, 08:09 PM	#1
DodgeViper Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Tucson, Arizona Posts: 204	TC-4 Changes Made To The Tubulators I had removed the standard tubulators and have been cooling without. I decided to try this style and see if it will make a difference. The coils are made of copper. I used #12 solid copper used in the electrical field. It will be a week or so before the system is back up and running.

09-18-2002, 01:28 AM	#2
Can O' Beans Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Pa - USA Posts: 264	It looks good, but I think that 12ga is a bit too big. It might restrict flow too much. You should only need small wire, just enough to break up any laminar flow. I would try wire in the 20s gauge or a finer spring, etc...

09-18-2002, 08:37 AM	#3
DodgeViper Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Tucson, Arizona Posts: 204	What is pictured is only an example. The finished product may be stretched out more and made of #14, #16, #18, or #20 copper. More photos will follow once I make the other coils.

09-21-2002, 10:00 AM	#5
DodgeViper Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Tucson, Arizona Posts: 204	The only problem with your theory is by holding the wire under the stream of water, you do not have anything containing the water. With the wire in the channel, water is going to flow over and through the wire and it will be spiraling water, this causing turbulence.

09-21-2002, 01:36 PM	#8
DodgeViper Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Tucson, Arizona Posts: 204	Hold that thought. With the square channel and the spiral spring you will have openings a long the bottom/top/sides of the channel where water can flow. Then you have the center of the spiral spring where water will flow. Now this water is going to come in contact with the swirling water causing turbulence from the spiral spring. The spiral copper spring is a very tight fit to the channel....

09-21-2002, 01:46 PM	#9
DodgeViper Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Tucson, Arizona Posts: 204	Danny at D-Tek and Nikhsub1 are both receiving a few feet of the copper spiral wire to test as both are very interested. I have space out the spiral wire so only four coils are in each channel.

10-05-2002, 10:29 AM	#11
DodgeViper Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Tucson, Arizona Posts: 204	This post is for those that may make their own coils and replace the stock turbulators. Be very careful when tightening the machine screws. If over tighten you may crack the Lexan top. Only slight pressure is needed to seal the top.

10-10-2002, 03:58 AM	#15
MadDogMe Thermophile Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just shut up ;) ... Posts: 1,068	I like the look of that!, are you gonna put a bigger *inlet(3/4?) in the block though?, other wise an equal Y(5/8inch, 11.5mm inner) would of handled the two outlets... Aha!, I see the two sizes on the HC now , did you make that shroud yourself?, nice..., are you gonna solder it direct to the HC?.

10-10-2002, 05:57 AM	#16
DodgeViper Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Tucson, Arizona Posts: 204	Here is an article I wrote on making the shroud/heater core. CLICK

10-10-2002, 01:54 PM	#18
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	the point wasn't to make the water spin, it was to help break up the surface tension, at the channel walls. This "conversion" turns the TC-4 back into a Maze1, with a "twist"... As it's been demonstrated, it does work. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

10-25-2002, 09:58 PM	#19
Blackeagle Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: U.S.A = Michigan Posts: 1,243	This block seems reversed compared to other 3 barb block designs. Why wouldn't you have a large center inlet with the flow splitting and going out the 2 corner barbs? Wouldn't the coldest water coming into the center above the center of the core at the highest heat point offer a advantage? The copper coils are a real interesting idea.

10-26-2002, 01:19 AM	#20
gone_fishin Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: Da UP Posts: 517	I see it as good marketing hype but where is the undeniable proof of a gain. So far from what I can gather the claims of any gain are within the limits of a good or bad mounting. Such is the market.

10-26-2002, 08:22 AM	#22
MadDogMe Thermophile Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just shut up ;) ... Posts: 1,068	I never noticed that!, why have you used the centre barb as an outlet?, I'd have gone with it as inlet myself, for the colder water and as a jetted point for added turbulance/impingment. PS. I'd try and make the coils kinda 'spiralled' in shape, like two cones/funnels that have the small points meeting in the middle >< kinda thing, ><><><>< would be eveen better!. the idea's to prevent water taking an easy route through the middle and improve turbulance even more!. I'm going to try something like this in my Maze3 only in the middle though, cause the two channels that go into one are just lowering flowrate over the (vital) core area. so I can get away with taking up half the volume with turbulator devices ...(as you can if you dont mind keeping original flow rate, imagine the increased flowspeed/velocity)

10-26-2002, 09:45 PM	#25
Blackeagle Thermophile Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: U.S.A = Michigan Posts: 1,243	The flow in this one may be turning "south" with a vengence. I'm new so I'm just going to go ahead a ask a question here, I hope this doesn't add fuel to the fire however. Gone Fishin, What is your block design, and why do you feel it is better than this mod of the TC-4? Not trying to be a wise a$$, just interested in differant ideas. And is your block on the market, or going to be?

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