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General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums.

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Unread 10-24-2002, 04:52 AM   #1
MadDogMe
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Default What Rig would you build?...

I know this is a bit of a cheesey question, but it'd be an insight for anyone putting together a new rig....

If you were going to build a rig today with commercialy available parts what would you use?, which block, rad, pump, tube, fittings, fans, ect...

Would you have a closed loop without a res?, airtrap for a fill point?, incase or seperate H2o 'station'?, northbridge and GPU?, harddrive or PSU?, TEC's?. which parts would you splash '£$%' on and which would you scrimp?. it's not just what you'd use but how, and 'why?', your reasoning behind it can be valuable...
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Unread 10-24-2002, 06:05 AM   #2
gmat
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(when choices are available, i'd take the easier on shipping charges / price)
Case: Cube (YY for example) or self made (with alu sheets and profiles)
Pump: Eheim 1250 (i do not know better for this price, in Europe)
Tubing: 1/2" Tygon + rigid PVC for fixed portions
Rad: 2 DTek heatercores, or those neat british rads ('The deep' x2 or its double size counterpart) - run passively and in parallel.
A small airtrap. Maybe the Aquatube, for the great looks - modded to 1/2" of course. Placed vertically, at top, for refilling.
PSU: Deltatronic 360W fanless
CPU block: either DTek TC-4, or Spiral, or Dangerden Maze3, or Paul Vodrazka's block, or AC CuPlex Evo modded to 1/2"
GPU block: Dangerden Z-block or AC Twinplex
NB block: Either Zalmann passive, or AC Twinplex, or DDen Z-block
HDD block: DTek's one, sandwiched between two X15.3, themselves wrapped in thick insulation, the whole 'box' being suspended with rubber o-rings.

Everything would have 1/2" nylon fittings.

No TEC - too much trouble (insulation, specific PSU..). And i do not care about extreme OCing.
Everything would fit into the case so i could take it to LANs. The rads would be exposed and horizontal of course (fittings upward, to avoid trapping bubbles) and exposed on the top side, for optimal convection. Maybe a "naval aircraft wing" like configuration, with hinges to flap em back for transportation.
The pump would be suspended as well, and put at bottom near the purge valve (Eheim ball valve, neat and leak free).

This is a rich man's setup indeed. But zero fan, zero noise.
If i didnt care about fans, i'd take 2 PAPST 4412 N/2GL - one for each rad, keeping the 'flap-wing' and having the fans blowing vertically (upwards...)
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Unread 10-24-2002, 07:12 AM   #3
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Purge valve is an exit at the lowest point yes?, for emptying the system?. something I've never thought about. I wonder what it would fill like from a bottom point?(with highest ponit open for air release). Do they do an 'oversize' one?(14mm, 5/8)...
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Unread 10-24-2002, 07:40 AM   #4
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Yes indeed.
To fill the system:
- close purge valve
- open air trap
- fill the system via the airtrap

To empty the system:
- open air trap
- put a basin under the purge valve
- open it
- wait a few seconds
- done.

All you need is a T and a ball valve at the lowest point:
Code:
-------
--+ +--  <- T
  | |
  |X+-  <- valve
  | |
Eheim valves exist in 10mm (3/8"), 12mm (1/2") and i think in 14mm (5/8") and 16mm (3/4")

PS: i forgot once to close the purge vavle before filling... I was thinking "huhh it needs a lot of water" just before noticeing i had flooded my kitchen..
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Unread 10-24-2002, 08:44 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by gmat
PS: i forgot once to close the purge vavle before filling... I was thinking "huhh it needs a lot of water" just before noticeing i had flooded my kitchen..
LOL!

That's exactly what I did to my pump. The ball valve is rather large though, and the outlet falls under the pump, but it's all good!

I'm sure that there are smaller valves out there.
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Unread 10-24-2002, 12:49 PM   #6
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If I could setup my dream WC system, I would buy a server rack and a stack of 4U cases (since I am pretending I am rich and ultra-competent, I made them all from acrylic and chrome). I'd take all of my machines apart and install them in these cases and stack them in. I would use one NPU2400 to power the four machines in parallel (1" threaded, must be submerged due to extreme power consumption, but pumps 1100 gallons per hour at 12 feet of head). At the bottom of my rack I would use 8U of space and make a custom acrylic box that would contain four BIX2s (the double sized BIXs) and a big water tank/res holding my pump. The pump would pump up through the tubing to the four machines, each containing a Cuplex WB from aqua-computer.de and one of their twinplex chipset blocks (for no reason other than that they look sexy). The backside of the cases (after the block) would dump into a long section of 2" clear PVC pipe that would be mounted onto the side of the server rack. This would expand into a 4" clear holding tank at the bottom and would split off to the four rads from here (doing it this way would eliminate a ton of hosing and would look frickin' cool). To keep things simple, the chipset would be in series (after) the CPUs, and after the initial 1" section of hise coming directly from the pump, it would split off into 4x.5" tubing until it returned to the drain tube. The kicker would be that if I had the money to do this, I would also set up an AC unit that I would duct through the radiators (via 2x120mm Panaflo on each @12V, all on a potentiometer array, and the fans being powered by their own 300W PSU ... 8 Pflos @ 6V or so shouldn't be too loud, hehe ... not when ducted like this, at least), with the warmed air from the radiators in turn ducted through the back of each 4U case. The ducting would be ugly, so I would have to keep it in the back of the server rack. This would help prevent condensation, and since the air is being forcibly exhausted through the system, no fans should be needed in the 4U cases (besides the GPU fans which aren't loud anyway). This whole setup would have a nice dull roar, but would be one intimidating SOB. I would hook extensions to all the peripherals, and if I had the money to do this, I'd also have the money to design a room around it so that all the desks/workstations feeding off it would be facing it in a big square. I'd finish the thing off with a bumper sticker on the front in flaming red naming it the Geeky Tower of Moscow. In the end it would contain about 4-7 gallons of coolant, and would contain enough cathodes to be seen from space.

*pant* *pant*

Oh, and since everything is acrylic, I'd have to shield my house with lead sheets to prevent my humble toy from interfering with NORAD. Did I mention the dancing nudie girls that would be in the cage bolted onto the side ... ?
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Unread 10-24-2002, 06:29 PM   #7
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Psychosis notwithstanding, I am thinking about doing this in anticipation of building my next machine. I've been thinking about getting a stack of cheap 4U cases and setting them up like this, without the AC unit of course (the air ducting would be uglier than hell). By consolidating all of my waterflow through one pump I could save the space inside of the 4U cases, leaving just the blocks and associated tubing. I'd probably go with a stack of Black Edge waterblocks from Becooling (great price, good performance), and leave the chipsets and GPU on their individual fans (as if they're that loud). The tubing, after the pump would split off into 3/8" ID Tygon (or similar) and would run up the sides of the cases (mounted with hose clips similar to how your spark plug wires in your engine are to keep it neat) and would enter through the left side of the 4U cases. After passing through the blocks, it would go straight out the right side and into a PVC tube (I was serious about the clear tube) that would be a half foot taller than the top rackmount and would stretch to 6" from the floor (it would be bolted to the rack itself). At the very bottom of the PVC tube I would have a butterfly valve spigot for draining (this would be the fill point and the airtrap ... the res the pump is in would be flush full with water ... this would lead to extremely easy filling/draining, which would be essential in a full parallel rackmount like this). The vertical tube would allow the coolant from the various systems to mix and temperature normalize a bit before, 1ft from the bottom it would have three or four exit points leading to a parallel radiator array. The four radiators would bleed into the top of the res that contains the pump (in reality either a NPU1800 (800 or so GPH at 12ft at 3/4") or two NPU500s feeding two 3/8" lines each. Either way I'd have plenty of pumping power ... the system would be setup for strict pushing by the pump ... once the water is forced through the blocks, gravity takes over draining the water through the radiator array. The base would be a 19" cube that would contain the radiators all next to each other and the res. I would probably seal around the rads with a homemade rubber gasket and use 6x120mm fans on a pot. array for tuning ... and I would definitely use a power supply for just the fans and the cathode that I'd have to put down there (since the bottom box would have to be homemade, what is the harm in making it out of acrylic, since a cube with a large hole in the front and back won't be too hard). The res that the pump(s) would reside it would be made out of more of the clear PVC (5" if I can find it) or I would modify a five gallon bucket. Whichever way I'd go, I'd have a drain spigot on the bottom of it as well. One other thing to note is that I will only use PVC pipe in the bottom. I will have no hoses down there. Once it assembled, it will be finished and permanent, since I don't want to worry about hosing troubles in the heart of my unit that could hurt all four computers. To further increase the ease of assembly and disassembly, I would include butterfly valves on each side of each case to seal it off in the off-chance (or certainty) that I would have to remove it from the rack for some OC lovin'.

I am actually planning on doing something like this in the future, depending on how my wife's schooling goes, and my new contract database design business works out (on the side on top of my sysadmin hell). I would use one machine (my slowest) for a general network server (FTP, HTTP, fileserver), one for gaming and database work, one for my wife's schooling and eventually her teaching stuff, and the fourth (the top) would be whatever hobby box I'm screwing with at the moment. Since my wife and I have our desks next to each other, I can string a USB hub to each desk for hot-swapping mouse/keybd, I would just hot-swap my monitor for when I need to switch machines (though I'd probably pick up a switch to make it easier). Naturally, the top shelf of the tower would contain all of my networking gear, and one of the faceplates of one of the machines would have to have an LCD screen ... the problem is that I'd want the temp data for all four machines as well as the water to be displayed, and I haven't found an LCD to do that with. All in all I expect this project to swallow about $1000, but once it is done, I will have a framework that I won't have to screw with for a very long time.

I may post a diagram of this idea if you guys want.
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Unread 10-24-2002, 06:37 PM   #8
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If you find some cheap rackmount stuff, let me know!
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Unread 10-24-2002, 07:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by bigben2k
If you find some cheap rackmount stuff, let me know!
Seconded!

In fact, if you can find a good deal on a large lot, I'd be interested in going in!

Bob
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Unread 10-24-2002, 08:45 PM   #10
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Some interesting ideas guys. I havn't built a WC yet and I'm still getting info around to get a grip on what I'd like to do and how best to do it. But lucking at this site has helped a lot.

Here is what little I'm sure of so far in regard to what I'd like to do.

I want to build a good high performing system that is all in case. I intend to get one of the 70's Lain Li full tower cases, just havn't quite decided on which of several fine cases, but all have 6 = 5.25" bays to play with. The system will have to also look resonablly good, side window, top window ect. Pump may be a 1060, but will be over 500 gal. per hr. whatever it may be. This will drive dual rads feeding a CPU, NB and GFX chip blocks.

Details are a bit sparse for now, I'll post a thread when I've figured out what all the components are I like. Then you guys can show me improvements/corrections, or just have a good laugh at the new nut.
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Unread 10-24-2002, 08:51 PM   #11
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I think i'm building it now
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Unread 10-24-2002, 09:12 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by mfpmax
I think i'm building it now
Yeah, but we laugh at you anyway!
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Unread 10-24-2002, 10:06 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by utabintarbo
Yeah, but we laugh at you anyway!
You are! Cause i'm screwing up on it

I just wanted something self contained...and unnoticable...stealth if you will, and I should be able to achieve it...
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Unread 10-25-2002, 04:12 AM   #14
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I toyed with the idea of using a desktop style case, meaning I was going to build my PC into a desk (wooden), abit like those glass topped coffee tables, an 'oblong' out of two squares, one square the PC the other the H2o rig & PSU. only thing is it'd have to be deep enough for the graphics and PCI cards to stand upright, I thought about making a ribbon connector out of an old AGP card and slot(same for two PCI cards I have) so they could be layed down. don't racks use something like that?. Imagine being able to look down into it!, and the row's of switches that could be hidden behind a pannel with flashy lights!!, and a big red remote C~Mos switch(yellow & black striped background included!) with a flip~up glass cover ...

Airspirit!, my GPU fan is the loudest muther in my Rig! . Do BiX come in 2x120mm fan sizes yet?,OCPC do the Abyss which is even better IMO, it'll take up to 16mm(14 inner) barbs.
I like the idea of H2o'ing a rack, I'd like to know more about the rig Rotors making the U1 blocks for...

Blackeagle, I'm sure you can do better than an Ehiem1060, something like an Iwaki 20RXT is ideal. we can't get good pumps in the UK...
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Unread 10-25-2002, 06:19 AM   #15
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MadDog did you mean something like this? http://www.soldam.com/case/prism2/
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Unread 10-25-2002, 06:36 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by MadDogMe
I toyed with the idea of using a desktop style case, meaning I was going to build my PC into a desk (wooden)
Like him ?
http://www.silentpcreview.com/module...rtid=44&page=1

Quote:

Do BiX come in 2x120mm fan sizes yet?,OCPC do the Abyss which is even better IMO, it'll take up to 16mm(14 inner) barbs.
Yes, it's called the BiX2 and costs about 110€. It's already available in Europe. The 'Abyss' looks better though (bigger...) and less expensive.
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Unread 10-25-2002, 12:27 PM   #17
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Ben, they have 4U w/o PSU on pricewatch for around $60-70 each. The rack itself would probably run about $120 for something the height and strength I'm looking for. This is a diagram of the "If I could do it again from scratch" idea. With the butterfly valves I'd keep it completely modular (i.e. if I removed the mobo the block would come with it ... once I got a good seating I would NEVER remove it except to swap the chip). Once done, this would be a work of ubergeeky art, have the sound level of two OEM computers (Papst fans and 2x80mm in each 4U running at 5-7V), and would keep my nightmare networking room clean (except to types that get a hard on from lots of kit, it really is an eyesore).
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Unread 10-25-2002, 04:45 PM   #18
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MadDogMe,

I found a couple differant sites that sell Iwaki pumps. But none match exactly the ID # you gave. Could you have been refering to a WMD-20RLT, 420 US gal/hr. @4' with a max head of 14.1'?

What would the volume be @ 0' head of such a pump?

None of the sites give the size of the beast, which makes me concerned about if it would fit into a Lain-Li 70 series case. They look rather long.
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Unread 10-25-2002, 06:16 PM   #19
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Also found WMD-30RLT @ 510 US gal. per hr. @4' and max head of 17.7'

Note: Both the above pumps have 3/4" NPT fittings.

Best price found so far.

WMD-20 118 USD
WMD-30 139 USD

Just wish I could find the demensions to see how much space they would require.

Would the 510 gal. per hr. pump be to much with such a high pressure behind it? Cause leaks?

Last edited by Blackeagle; 10-25-2002 at 06:35 PM.
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Unread 10-26-2002, 12:51 AM   #20
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IWAKI pump dimensions can befound here:
http://www.aquadirect.com/catalog/pu...iwakispecs.htm
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Unread 10-26-2002, 02:57 AM   #21
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Opps!, I meant the RZT!, It was recomended to someone by BillA in the 'pump roundup' thread, it's flow is 3GPH @8ft with a max head of 23ft!...

I'd jump on that WMD-30RLT @ 510 US gal. per hr. @4' and max head of 17.7' if there was one near me ...

Theres an exellent p~curve chart on page 2 of the pump roundup thread for Iwaki pumps...,(I'll bump it back up)
PS, you could fit the Titanic in a full tower case! ...
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