SGI Indigo Waterblock

dantheman · 11-08-2002, 09:21 AM

I have a SGI Indigo 2 at the house. The problem is that it just pumps out way too much heat when I am just running it as my webcam and webserver. So far, all of the other computers are watercooled, and the coolant goes up into the attic and through a radiator that is attatched to the attic fan. Takes alot of the heat and displaces it outside of the computer room.

That alone made a HUGE difference in the heat of that room. The problem now is that the SGI when running will heat the room up even hotter then it was with just 4 x86 comptuers running.

I am curious if anyone has a simple idea of how to cool this puppy. I might also have to cool down the video card, and that will be a bit more of a trouble. (next problem)

Here is a picture of the CPU and the current HS. Its huge, and I am not sure what its internals are like. I am guessing solid.

Any ideas?

I am thinking just get a new HS, and do a simple cross drilled block. That might make a huge difference in just getting the heat off the CPU and out of the room.

utabintarbo · 11-08-2002, 09:49 AM

Looked on SGI's website, cursory search turned up no dim's for that heatsink. So... if you can come up with some dim's and a pic of the backside of that thing, I'm sure someone can come up with a plan!

Bob

dantheman · 11-08-2002, 09:52 AM

I can do that this weekend. I loaned it out to a friend of mine who is useing it to find mips hacks. (he is not all there)

The mounting is through those four screws. I was thinking that if it is solid, I could just cross drill the original hs.

utabintarbo · 11-08-2002, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dantheman

The mounting is through those four screws. I was thinking that if it is solid, I could just cross drill the original hs.

I have a feeling that the backside is relieved significantly to accomodate the CPU. But if not, going the x-drilled route would be fast/cheap! And very ghetto!

Bob

myv65 · 11-08-2002, 10:50 AM

Is there a fan associated with that heat sink? Even if there is a fan, that heat sink tells me that the amount of heat from the chip is not particularly high. It's aluminum and has very little fin area. Compare it to the fin area of a common PC's heat sink.

I would try to get a better idea of where the heat is being generated as it is not obvious to me that the CPU is responsible for much of it.

There's also the possibility of using a radiator to cool the air exiting the SGI system. If the water returning from your attic is sufficiently cool and you have enough room for a decent sized radiator then it could remove the heat coming out of the SGI case.

dantheman · 11-08-2002, 11:20 AM

The water coming back from the attic is room temp. I have never seen a temp flux. If the temps of the water were to go too high an alarm would sound and I would know about it.

There is a single 120 MM fan that pushes ahella lot of air out the case. The only other thing that would be really there to cool would be the video card. It has 4 processors on it via 2 slots. The air goes past them first, and then into the rest of the box. The thing is though, even with the video card taken out, it still pumps out the heat, and you can't touch that hs as it is super hot.

The air comeign out the back is beyond warm, it is more along the lines of just plain hot. heh

You can tell this was made for company's who could afford to do the cooling alongside that is needed. (HUGE ac systems)

bigben2k · 11-08-2002, 12:08 PM

It sounds to me like you're headed for either a custom waterblock and/or a bunch of little GPU blocks (standard).

I was going to say something about attaching a waterblock to that CPU block, but I wouldn't expect too much from it, as the heat would be transfered from the CPU, to the Alu, them on to the copper.

You might be able to put a Spiral block on top of that, but the mounting holes probably won't match. Drilling a Spiral shouldn't be too hard. The big question is, what's it like under that Alu heatsink?

If height is a restriction, then you'd have to go with one of #Rotor's 1U block.

dantheman · 11-08-2002, 12:49 PM

Ummm. . . . I was never going to strap a block on top of that one. It would never fit!

Here are some pics of one that is simular to mine. I found this one online, and there are ALOT of pics here.

The cpu:

The HS from another angle:

Bottom of the HS

Video Card:

That might show you guys a bit more of what I am looking at.

bigben2k · 11-08-2002, 01:03 PM

Dang!

Do you have any clearance at all, above the CPU heatsink?

You might be able to squeeze a HDD liquid cooler, a la Bladerunner.

As for the GPU, it looks pretty hopeless. You'd be headed towards an ultra thin, custom made block, stuck in there with AS epoxy.

Can I assume that any waterblock would have to be copper?

dantheman · 11-08-2002, 02:03 PM

bigben2k: I am actually thinking about just takeing that huge ass HS and cross drilling it. Easy and it will work. The video card will just have to wait. I am not going for looks here, I will be happy to have the hose go straight out the back of the case, or even run it without a top on it.

bigben2k · 11-08-2002, 02:32 PM

Hum... but it looks (from the pic) like that CPU Alu heatsink isn't solid, it's hollow (like a cap). What good would cross-drilling it be?

This is such an unusual situation: you're trying to watercool it, to get the heat away from the room. You're not trying to improve the cooling (but it would be a small bonus), or overclock anything.

Looks are usually the last of my concerns too. Functionality is always a priority, so I would point you towards a way to keep the case closed.

I have to admire the heatsink design, for the 6 bolt mount, which keeps an even pressure. I do however have to point out that the hollow space will only hold hot air. Thermal tape isn't ideal, but I suppose it worked, at the time. The whole system seems to suffer from lack of airflow.

dantheman · 11-08-2002, 02:44 PM

Why do you think that? It is heavy, and I don't think sgi would do something silly like makeing it hollow. Hey, if it is though, I prob can just force a huge amount of water through it and be fine.

myv65 · 11-08-2002, 03:04 PM

I think Ben is getting at the fact that the heat sink really isn't very thick. Do you have a caliper set or micrometer? The shot of yours showing the underside of the heat sink indicates that the chip sits up in a cavity and despite the "thickness" visible in your very first shot, the actual heat sink isn't thick at all.

Cross drilling may be an option, but probably would not have as good a result as placing a "cap" on top of the heat sink that was sealed to the existing heat sink. If indeed the heat sink really isn't that thick, cross drilling would hinder the already limited spreading abilities of the heat sink. Only those holes right over the CPU would do much, and even they wouldn't be very effective.

I guess one analogy is that you heat sink is like the cap off a jar of peanut butter. It may be tall, but that doesn't mean it is thick.

In the end I still believe the CPUs represent only a portion of the total heat. Sure, you can address it with water cooling, but don't be surprised if there's still a lot of hot air leaving the box.

bigben2k · 11-08-2002, 03:15 PM

Here's what led me to say what I said:

Red: structural reinforcement
Green: post or mounting screw

bigben2k · 11-08-2002, 03:30 PM

If you have no clearance above the CPU heatsink, I'd solder a small copper tube to the inside, like this:
(CPU added for reference)

Edit: use Arctic Silver epoxy, because soldering Alu is very difficult.

dantheman · 11-08-2002, 06:46 PM

Now that is a very interesting idea. I am going to pick it back up tomm. I will mesure the silly thing and see what is up with it. I am not positive if there is even enough room under the hs, as there are a million chips and other things under there that take up that space.

MadDogMe · 11-09-2002, 04:51 AM

That is cast alloy{monkey metal!

} is'nt it?. bet it's got a piss~poor conductivity, looks too thin as well for lateral spread

. make a custom Cu plate with Cu tube soldered to it, top and bottom, micro pipe(in parallel) would be idea if space is limited...

jamicon · 11-09-2002, 06:05 AM

i feel that the fins would be high enough to create a multi channel block from it. And then just cap it with a bit of perspex. Seal the end with a bit of plumbers goop (or whatever is availiable where you live) and then you will be fine.

It should be enough cooling, as it is good enough as a stock cooler, and water can only make something better.

here is what i mean:

whatcha think? another alternative would be to make it a U or M shaped channel, and then you could fit barbs inline by making a little attachment thingy

dantheman · 11-09-2002, 06:12 AM

That is a pretty good idea. I am starting to wonder with all of your coments if that is even where I should be thinking first to cool. Its the only thing i know of that has a HS on it. I ned to pull out my tire temp gauge and see if it will work in this situation.

/me wonders how the hell he would drill all those holes

jamicon · 11-09-2002, 06:35 AM

the way I find hot parts of my computer is to use my finger and poke around inside it, works well except for the occasional burnt finger, cut finger, or broken fan (normally the last two go together)

from what I can tell from the pictures you posted, I think it would be possible to fit some sort of modded barb (maybe make an adaptor) that would come out parallel to the heat sink, so that you don’t have to cut up all the stuff above it. This would then mean you could have pipes/barbs coming out of the front of the case (as in the side that is at the bottom of the pics)

Can O' Beans · 11-09-2002, 11:48 PM

One of #Rotor's newer 1U waterblock designs should be able to work with that.

Might want to get a hold of him & see what he could suggest.

Ecradda · 11-10-2002, 01:37 AM

i dont think watercooling is realy nessasary, i would just get some new seprate hs's on the cpu, the cache (on cpu), and then on the videocard(s)

pilsn3r · 11-10-2002, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by myv65
(cut) There's also the possibility of using a radiator to cool the air exiting the SGI system. If the water returning from your attic is sufficiently cool and you have enough room for a decent sized radiator then it could remove the heat coming out of the SGI case.

imo this is the best way... and then your friend can borrow it again without problem... just remove the rad it is "unmodded" again. maybe just change/add fans to improve cooling...
on the other hand... this is a boring way to do it...

dantheman · 11-10-2002, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ecradda
i dont think watercooling is realy nessasary, i would just get some new seprate hs's on the cpu, the cache (on cpu), and then on the videocard(s)

Why in the world would I do that? I don't want the heat in the room is the problem.

Ya, its cool, and that is a good idea. BUT, it is the easy way to get around it, and not NEAR as much fun as drilling holes into the only HS i have for it.

redleader · 11-10-2002, 09:04 PM

Just mill away the ridges to make a flat spot on top and stick an oldfashioned DD GPU block on. It won't cool quite as well as typical watercooling, but its still way better then air and I doubt you're overclocking

11-08-2002, 09:21 AM	#1
dantheman Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 152	SGI Indigo Waterblock I have a SGI Indigo 2 at the house. The problem is that it just pumps out way too much heat when I am just running it as my webcam and webserver. So far, all of the other computers are watercooled, and the coolant goes up into the attic and through a radiator that is attatched to the attic fan. Takes alot of the heat and displaces it outside of the computer room. That alone made a HUGE difference in the heat of that room. The problem now is that the SGI when running will heat the room up even hotter then it was with just 4 x86 comptuers running. I am curious if anyone has a simple idea of how to cool this puppy. I might also have to cool down the video card, and that will be a bit more of a trouble. (next problem) Here is a picture of the CPU and the current HS. Its huge, and I am not sure what its internals are like. I am guessing solid. Any ideas? I am thinking just get a new HS, and do a simple cross drilled block. That might make a huge difference in just getting the heat off the CPU and out of the room.

11-08-2002, 09:49 AM	#2
utabintarbo Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sterling Hts., MI Posts: 496	Looked on SGI's website, cursory search turned up no dim's for that heatsink. So... if you can come up with some dim's and a pic of the backside of that thing, I'm sure someone can come up with a plan! Bob __________________ Sarcasm is yet another of the free services we offer!

11-08-2002, 12:08 PM	#7
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	It sounds to me like you're headed for either a custom waterblock and/or a bunch of little GPU blocks (standard). I was going to say something about attaching a waterblock to that CPU block, but I wouldn't expect too much from it, as the heat would be transfered from the CPU, to the Alu, them on to the copper. You might be able to put a Spiral block on top of that, but the mounting holes probably won't match. Drilling a Spiral shouldn't be too hard. The big question is, what's it like under that Alu heatsink? If height is a restriction, then you'd have to go with one of #Rotor's 1U block. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

11-08-2002, 01:03 PM	#9
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Dang! Do you have any clearance at all, above the CPU heatsink? You might be able to squeeze a HDD liquid cooler, a la Bladerunner. As for the GPU, it looks pretty hopeless. You'd be headed towards an ultra thin, custom made block, stuck in there with AS epoxy. Can I assume that any waterblock would have to be copper? __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

11-08-2002, 02:32 PM	#11
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Hum... but it looks (from the pic) like that CPU Alu heatsink isn't solid, it's hollow (like a cap). What good would cross-drilling it be? This is such an unusual situation: you're trying to watercool it, to get the heat away from the room. You're not trying to improve the cooling (but it would be a small bonus), or overclock anything. Looks are usually the last of my concerns too. Functionality is always a priority, so I would point you towards a way to keep the case closed. I have to admire the heatsink design, for the 6 bolt mount, which keeps an even pressure. I do however have to point out that the hollow space will only hold hot air. Thermal tape isn't ideal, but I suppose it worked, at the time. The whole system seems to suffer from lack of airflow. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

11-08-2002, 09:52 AM	#3
dantheman Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 152	I can do that this weekend. I loaned it out to a friend of mine who is useing it to find mips hacks. (he is not all there) The mounting is through those four screws. I was thinking that if it is solid, I could just cross drill the original hs.

11-08-2002, 10:50 AM	#5
myv65 Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: home Posts: 365	Is there a fan associated with that heat sink? Even if there is a fan, that heat sink tells me that the amount of heat from the chip is not particularly high. It's aluminum and has very little fin area. Compare it to the fin area of a common PC's heat sink. I would try to get a better idea of where the heat is being generated as it is not obvious to me that the CPU is responsible for much of it. There's also the possibility of using a radiator to cool the air exiting the SGI system. If the water returning from your attic is sufficiently cool and you have enough room for a decent sized radiator then it could remove the heat coming out of the SGI case.

11-08-2002, 11:20 AM	#6
dantheman Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 152	The water coming back from the attic is room temp. I have never seen a temp flux. If the temps of the water were to go too high an alarm would sound and I would know about it. There is a single 120 MM fan that pushes ahella lot of air out the case. The only other thing that would be really there to cool would be the video card. It has 4 processors on it via 2 slots. The air goes past them first, and then into the rest of the box. The thing is though, even with the video card taken out, it still pumps out the heat, and you can't touch that hs as it is super hot. The air comeign out the back is beyond warm, it is more along the lines of just plain hot. heh You can tell this was made for company's who could afford to do the cooling alongside that is needed. (HUGE ac systems)

11-08-2002, 12:49 PM	#8
dantheman Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 152	Ummm. . . . I was never going to strap a block on top of that one. It would never fit! Here are some pics of one that is simular to mine. I found this one online, and there are ALOT of pics here. The cpu: The HS from another angle: Bottom of the HS Video Card: That might show you guys a bit more of what I am looking at.

11-08-2002, 02:03 PM	#10
dantheman Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 152	bigben2k: I am actually thinking about just takeing that huge ass HS and cross drilling it. Easy and it will work. The video card will just have to wait. I am not going for looks here, I will be happy to have the hose go straight out the back of the case, or even run it without a top on it.

11-08-2002, 02:44 PM	#12
dantheman Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 152	Why do you think that? It is heavy, and I don't think sgi would do something silly like makeing it hollow. Hey, if it is though, I prob can just force a huge amount of water through it and be fine.

11-08-2002, 03:04 PM	#13
myv65 Cooling Savant Join Date: May 2002 Location: home Posts: 365	I think Ben is getting at the fact that the heat sink really isn't very thick. Do you have a caliper set or micrometer? The shot of yours showing the underside of the heat sink indicates that the chip sits up in a cavity and despite the "thickness" visible in your very first shot, the actual heat sink isn't thick at all. Cross drilling may be an option, but probably would not have as good a result as placing a "cap" on top of the heat sink that was sealed to the existing heat sink. If indeed the heat sink really isn't that thick, cross drilling would hinder the already limited spreading abilities of the heat sink. Only those holes right over the CPU would do much, and even they wouldn't be very effective. I guess one analogy is that you heat sink is like the cap off a jar of peanut butter. It may be tall, but that doesn't mean it is thick. In the end I still believe the CPUs represent only a portion of the total heat. Sure, you can address it with water cooling, but don't be surprised if there's still a lot of hot air leaving the box.

11-08-2002, 06:46 PM	#16
dantheman Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 152	Now that is a very interesting idea. I am going to pick it back up tomm. I will mesure the silly thing and see what is up with it. I am not positive if there is even enough room under the hs, as there are a million chips and other things under there that take up that space.

11-09-2002, 04:51 AM	#17
MadDogMe Thermophile Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just shut up ;) ... Posts: 1,068	That is cast alloy{monkey metal!} is'nt it?. bet it's got a piss~poor conductivity, looks too thin as well for lateral spread . make a custom Cu plate with Cu tube soldered to it, top and bottom, micro pipe(in parallel) would be idea if space is limited...

11-09-2002, 06:05 AM	#18
jamicon Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 44	i feel that the fins would be high enough to create a multi channel block from it. And then just cap it with a bit of perspex. Seal the end with a bit of plumbers goop (or whatever is availiable where you live) and then you will be fine. It should be enough cooling, as it is good enough as a stock cooler, and water can only make something better. here is what i mean: whatcha think? another alternative would be to make it a U or M shaped channel, and then you could fit barbs inline by making a little attachment thingy

11-09-2002, 06:12 AM	#19
dantheman Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 152	That is a pretty good idea. I am starting to wonder with all of your coments if that is even where I should be thinking first to cool. Its the only thing i know of that has a HS on it. I ned to pull out my tire temp gauge and see if it will work in this situation. /me wonders how the hell he would drill all those holes

11-09-2002, 06:35 AM	#20
jamicon Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 44	the way I find hot parts of my computer is to use my finger and poke around inside it, works well except for the occasional burnt finger, cut finger, or broken fan (normally the last two go together) from what I can tell from the pictures you posted, I think it would be possible to fit some sort of modded barb (maybe make an adaptor) that would come out parallel to the heat sink, so that you don’t have to cut up all the stuff above it. This would then mean you could have pipes/barbs coming out of the front of the case (as in the side that is at the bottom of the pics)

11-09-2002, 11:48 PM	#21
Can O' Beans Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Pa - USA Posts: 264	One of #Rotor's newer 1U waterblock designs should be able to work with that. Might want to get a hold of him & see what he could suggest.

11-10-2002, 01:37 AM	#22
Ecradda Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: omaha, NE Posts: 6	i dont think watercooling is realy nessasary, i would just get some new seprate hs's on the cpu, the cache (on cpu), and then on the videocard(s)

11-10-2002, 09:04 PM	#25
redleader Thermophile Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The deserts of Tucson, Az Posts: 1,264	Just mill away the ridges to make a flat spot on top and stick an oldfashioned DD GPU block on. It won't cool quite as well as typical watercooling, but its still way better then air and I doubt you're overclocking

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