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Water Block Design / Construction Building your own block? Need info on designing one? Heres where to do it

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Unread 11-13-2002, 09:14 AM   #276
Albigger
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might be nice to model both the Pent 4 and AMD socket and surrounding clearance area, to see how well designs adapt to one another, if anyone is even interested in that....
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Unread 11-13-2002, 09:20 AM   #277
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Quote:
Originally posted by Albigger
might be nice to model both the Pent 4 and AMD socket and surrounding clearance area, to see how well designs adapt to one another, if anyone is even interested in that....
Well, I have the whole AMD socket area modeled in SW. PM if interested.

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Unread 11-13-2002, 09:23 AM   #278
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... your PM box is fulll....
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Unread 11-13-2002, 10:04 AM   #279
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Quote:
Originally posted by Albigger
Holy Sh**!! If you really are pushing 250 gph through a 3/16" diameter hole, your water velocity is about 15 m/s coming out of that nozzle (by my calculations - read: could contain errors)

doing a rough calculation of my block, i would have roughly 3 m/s coming through my inlet

so how much of an improvement does higher water velocity yeild in terms of ability to remove heat??
That would be correct.

The pressure drop through a 3/16 opening, at 4 gpm (240 gph) is 11.7 feet (!) per inch of length. Flow speed is 46.5 fps (14.2 m/s).

There will be a nozzle in the middle, which nicely tapers down from 3/4 inch to 3/16, over a length of about 1/2 inch, so the total restriction of that little area should be minimal.

The cooling effect is enhanced, simply because it throws the coolant into highly turbulent flow, which is absolutely amazing for cooling. It can be calculated using the Reynolds equation.
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Unread 11-13-2002, 10:20 AM   #280
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Quote:
Originally posted by bigben2k
There will be a nozzle in the middle, which nicely tapers down from 3/4 inch to 3/16, over a length of about 1/2 inch, so the total restriction of that little area should be minimal.

Where can one find specs for the shape of this taper?

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Unread 11-13-2002, 10:22 AM   #281
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Well, that's a problem. ASME has such standards, but I haven't access. I'll keep looking for it today.
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Unread 11-13-2002, 10:55 AM   #282
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I found some references, but no nice equations.

http://www.delta-tcompany.com/nozzles/equations.php

http://63.174.18.220/literature/docs/ssor002.pdf

http://www.daniel.com/products/gas/N...37%20457KB.pdf

That last one gave me this:

I don't believe that the straight section would be of any benefit, so if we exclude it, the nozzle length would be 3/8 (assuming a 3/4 inlet).
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Unread 11-13-2002, 10:57 AM   #283
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Kryotherm is giving me problems. I was hoping to break down the fin pattern into multiple rings, to calculate sectional thermal properties, but KryoTherm won't let me specify a value for L that is less than 3.0 mm.
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Unread 11-13-2002, 11:00 AM   #284
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Quote:
Originally posted by bigben2k
The pressure drop through a 3/16 opening, at 4 gpm (240 gph) is 11.7 feet (!) per inch of length. Flow speed is 46.5 fps (14.2 m/s).
Ben,

Pressure loss through a straight pipe is not the same as pressure drop through a point restriction, orifice, or nozzle. You could be close or off by a mile on your estimate. Unless you've got a chart from a reputable source showing P/Q for your planned nozzle then you're shooting blind.

You need to realize that in a straight pipe, you have as established flow pattern. In a nozzle or orifice, you have changes in the velocity profile that chew up energy. For sharp-edged, round orifice plates you can easily find equations and coefficients to predict P/Q. Once you deviate from that which has already been tested, you're kind of on your own, and simply approximating as a straight pipe can be quite misleading.
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Unread 11-13-2002, 11:20 AM   #285
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I understand that.

I found a good link (after closer inspection):
http://www.delta-tcompany.com/nozzles/sizes.php

Of course I'll have to convert SCFM to gpm/gph! I'm still not fond of the straight section in that nozzle, so it's gonna have to go.

I just got a call back from a rep from TechRep. He's going to fax me some numbers. He says that the calculation of a restriction of a nozzle is similar to that of an orifice plate, but with a factor added.

We'll see!

[edit] the link above has a chart for air, not water [/edit]

Last edited by bigben2k; 11-13-2002 at 11:39 AM.
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Unread 11-13-2002, 11:26 AM   #286
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Bill Adams shows some real world data for flow through nozzles :-
http://forums.overclockers.com.au/sh...threadid=58005
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Unread 11-13-2002, 11:49 AM   #287
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'nother link:
http://www.flow-dyne.com/nozzle.htm

Bob
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Unread 11-13-2002, 12:05 PM   #288
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Nice, but that's for gas too.

I've got it (Thanks to M. Arvanetakis, from TechRep). I'll update with a link later.

(Reference: ninth edition of principles and practice of flow metering engineering, LK Spink)
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Last edited by bigben2k; 11-13-2002 at 12:11 PM.
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Unread 11-13-2002, 12:11 PM   #289
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Quote:
Originally posted by bigben2k
Nice, but that's for gas too.

Picky, picky!

Isn't water just a cold gas anyway?

Bob
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Unread 11-15-2002, 02:43 PM   #290
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actually, from a thremodinamics point, a gas is considered a very thin vluid....

but ya.... 6 of the one 1/2-dozen of the other.
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Unread 11-15-2002, 04:38 PM   #291
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Wow!, I thought optimal would be more tapered...
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Unread 11-15-2002, 06:41 PM   #292
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Quote:
Originally posted by #Rotor
actually, from a thremodinamics point, a gas is considered a very thin vluid....

but ya.... 6 of the one 1/2-dozen of the other.
...except for one major detail: a gas is compressible, a liquid is (mostly) not. I've seen too many nozzles with a widening exit, only to find out that they're for gas.
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Unread 11-17-2002, 08:12 PM   #293
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Some minor progress:

Since the 3/16 nozzle has been questioned, I capped my pump after I drilled a 3/16 hole in the cap.

Expecting about 45 fps, I estimated that it would shoot straight up about 22 feet (gravity being 9.8 m/s^2).

It came to 11 feet. Wondering, I remembered that I used 3 feet of 1/2 inch tubing for the test, which at that kind of flow rate, is awfully restrictive. I'll have to re-run this test with 3/4.

Airtrap works well, with 3/4 barbs. There's still an air leak in the system (from the pump area), and I think it's from the ball valve, attached to the inlet with a tee. I'll have to re-run the test without the valve.

I'm testing with distilled water (58 cents/gallon at Wall-Mart), because I got tired of the white residue over everything. Why does distilled water stink?

[edit]
No progress on the nozzle. Sticking to a copper top was much simpler. Trying to stay optimistic, as I enter the "20" phase in the 80/20 aspect of the project (80% of the work in 20% of the time, and 20% of work taking up 80% of the time).

Fixittt: I need to know if you're equipped to tap a hole/thread to NPT specs, 3/4, and of course if you could put a similar thread on a polycarbonate cylinder, 1/2 inch high, 1/2 or 3/4 inch diameter.

Last edited by bigben2k; 11-17-2002 at 08:29 PM.
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Unread 11-20-2002, 10:14 AM   #294
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Since I brought it up in another thread, and that there seems to be an interest...

Here's the GPU version of Radius:
(Not to scale)

The outlet is to the side, at the bottom. The off-center circle is a copper wall, shaped to distribute the flow evenly. Inlet is on top, as a 90 degree barb.
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Unread 12-03-2002, 12:24 PM   #295
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Some progress.

Thanks to Gone_Fishin, I picked up an adhesive for the polycarbonate top. A polycarbonate tube will be glued on top.

The seperating res will be made from a 1 1/2 (1.5) sanitary 4 way tee. The top opening will be turned into an observation window. (pic later)

I'll be ordering some parts very soon, from McMaster and UsPlastics.

I am still however stuck with the problem of the center inlet. So far, I have 2 possible candidates:

Opinions?
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Unread 12-09-2002, 07:06 PM   #296
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No opinions?


Ok. Note to self: try the copper top as well. linky!

Some progress:
Construction of the seperating res has begun (pics this week). The sanitary 4 way tee is working out nicely, but it is large.

See the pic (below)

The top (in the pic) is where the observation window will be. It will be visible from/through the side of the case (window). The bent outlets is where the coolant comes in and out. The bottom is where it connects to the block.

This weekend, I took a polypropylene 1 1/2 barb, cut off the barbed part, and took some measurements, to see if this could mount nicely.

In short the tee is 4 inches tall. Adding a socket-to-thread adapter, then screwing in the barb added 2 5/8 to the above measurement. The barb portion that is left is 7/8 long (but will be cut shorter) because I am planning on having a visible area about 1 inch long, right above the block's top (a polycarbonate tube, glued to a polycarbonate top).


The o-ring will have to be 1 5/8 ID (1 3/4 OD), 1/16th size (standard size, AS568A dash # 030). I picked silicone (for compatibility) but I may yet switch to EPDM ($12.22, 100 pk). McMaster p/n 9396K109 ($8.47 per pack of 25). It is rated shore A at 70, which should be more than plenty in order to handle the pressure that it will be facing. (Utabintarbo, does that agree with the drawing?)


I'll be going over clamps shortly, then placing my order.

McMaster:
-Ring flange (for mounting the airtrap)
p/n 4881K235

-PVC adapter, threaded, 1 1/2 to 3/4
p/n 4880K355

-Polycarbonate sample sheet, 6" x 6", 1/4 thick
p/n 8574K11 (cheaper than USPlastics, because McM sells it in samples)

-Polycarbonate Hollow Rod 1-3/4" OD, 1-1/2" ID
p/n 8585K17 (cheaper than USPlastics, because McM sells it in 1 foot lenghts)

-Polycarbonate Hollow Rod 3/4" OD, 5/8" ID, 4' Length
8585K135 (cheaper than USPlastics, because McM sells it in 4 foot lenghts)

-need to add hose clamps


USPlastics:
-Nylon 1 1/2 to 3/4 barbed adapter (I'm trying it out)
p/n 62215

-Flange (instead of above)
p/n 28095 (because they sell it with a neoprene gasket, which I may want)

-long elbow, clear
p/n 25356 (for that bend in the seperating res, clear for visibility)


(ref 9885)
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Unread 12-10-2002, 09:01 AM   #297
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Quote:
Originally posted by bigben2k
...


The o-ring will have to be 1 5/8 ID (1 3/4 OD), 1/16th size (standard size, AS568A dash # 030). I picked silicone (for compatibility) but I may yet switch to EPDM ($12.22, 100 pk). McMaster p/n 9396K109 ($8.47 per pack of 25). It is rated shore A at 70, which should be more than plenty in order to handle the pressure that it will be facing. (Utabintarbo, does that agree with the drawing?)


...
It will!
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Unread 12-10-2002, 09:13 AM   #298
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is this block ready!!!!
must cost a fortune to machine.
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Unread 12-10-2002, 01:41 PM   #299
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Order has been placed.


In the mean time, I found an interesting bit of info on polycarbonate: there are tiny fissures in cuts made in polycarbonate. They can be fixed, by...

read it yourself!

Methylene chloride MSDS

aka dichloromethane


Maybe some of our favorite block makers should try that! It might have avoided the whole Maze3 clear top fiasco!
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Unread 12-11-2002, 10:58 AM   #300
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Here's a pic of the infamous 4-way sanitary tee I've been talking about:

Note that the ends are socketed, so a threaded adapter is necessary.
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