Jet-Dry. The additive we've been looking for?

bigben2k · 12-09-2002, 02:12 PM

Jet-Dry info here!

I just had to check it out. I picked up a bottle of the blue stuff (liquid) at a dollar store.

Last weekend, I was running another flow test with my airtrap. I found the source of the tiny bubbles: it was from a vortex forming because I didn't put enough water in the airtrap.

I thought the Jet-Dry would help clear it up (don't ask!). I also wanted to get around the white deposit on my tubes (and using Lysol wasn't a favorite of mine).

So I added two drops of Jet-Dry in a gallon jug, which I filled with water, and poured in my test rig. I had a tiny bit of foam (in the jug).

When I turned the pump on, everything cleared up. Upon closer examination, the tiny air bubbles became very small air bubbles (had to hold a flashlight through the clear part). They're still there, but they don't make that noise at the pump anymore.

Here's a pic of the test rig (a preview from the article!):
(Note: that was the test from a few weeks ago, which had leaks!)

nicozeg · 12-09-2002, 08:06 PM

I don't understand too much the difference between this and common dishwashing detergent

bigben2k · 12-09-2002, 09:02 PM

They both (appear to) be surfactants (soap), without making an outrageous amount of bubbles. They are a benefit because they help reduce the boundary layer, the area of flow closest to the inner walls of a tube (or a waterblock), which in turn may improve cooling a bit.

The Jet-Dry is already liquid, so there is no worry about having solids running through a loop which could damage the pump. (although liquid dish detergent is also available).

Also, the soap should help prevent the growth of algae.

Hey, for $1.00, it was worth a shot. I just wanted something to keep my tubes clear.

nicozeg · 12-09-2002, 09:28 PM

I'm not an expert in fluids, but I think that boundary layer is more related to viscosity than surface tension

One time I run my system for several hours with some powder dishwashing detergent dissolved in the water, trying to clean the hoses. It did a great job, but never thought of leaving it there.

Maybe it's worth a try , I like the algae prevention part.

myv65 · 12-10-2002, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nicozeg
I'm not an expert in fluids, but I think that boundary layer is more related to viscosity than surface tension

Score one for nicozeg. As a general rule, soaps actually increase viscosity albeit very slightly.

airspirit · 12-10-2002, 12:43 PM

You have me intrigued. How is it coming so far? I may have to do this, though I'd hate to murder a $140 pump on a rumor .... Also, wouldn't this stuff eventually corrode the metal in your system? Does it have any effect on your PVC glue (very important to me!)?

bigben2k · 12-10-2002, 01:04 PM

I can run some more tests, if that interests you.

I only had 2 drops of the stuff in about half a gallon jug of tap water.

I can try to slap a couple of pieces of PVC together, and immerse them in a container with various solutions of Jet-Dry and tap and/or distilled water (a la DigitalChaos ).

In my airtrap, there's a silicone (goop!) seal, so the coolant never reached the PVC cement.

Let me know.

airspirit · 12-10-2002, 01:32 PM

That would rule, if you could. I'll also look around for scrap parts from the project to run my own tests on, if I can find any. I still have air noise on my pump (it runs about 35 dB between that and vibration ... even when padded in 1" of neoprene and sitting on a folded towel), and would LOVE to get rid of it, though in the scheme of things might only save me a dB in total noise output.

bigben2k · 12-10-2002, 01:51 PM

Ok.

I'll try:
-distilled water 100%
-distilled water with 2 drops of Jet-Dry
-distilled with Jet-Dry (4 oz additive to 1 gal water ratio)

-tap water 100%
-tap water with 2 drops of Jet-Dry
-tap with Jet-Dry (4 oz additive to 1 gal water ratio)

I'm also going to try it with windshield wiper fluid, with the above solutions (because I need to

) .

[edit]
oh, and just for kicks, I'll try 100% Jet-Dry!)
[/edit]

Jars will be glass, sealed with Cling-wrap and a rubber band. I'll keep them out of the sunlight.

For the PVC parts, I'll get the cheapest smallest parts, probably 1/2 street elbows, schedule 40, glued together with the clear primer (schedule 40) and cement, applied as per manufacturer instructions.

Would that be objectionable to anyone?

airspirit · 12-10-2002, 03:15 PM

Sounds good, though 100% jet dry would be a waste, I think. It would be like using 100% water wetter ... the water itself is the cooling medium while the wetter just tweaks its properties.

Knowing which % of jet dry would be nice, though.

natopotato · 12-10-2002, 04:06 PM

jet dry is the old-school additive. Before watter wetter and purple ice became popular with overclockers, jet dry was the weapon of choice for many a water cooler. I don't think is the best choice these days but it'll work in a pinch.

edit: jet dry was used to control growth of algae and such more than prevent corrosion. there are better alternates to be found for either purposes.

airspirit · 12-10-2002, 06:26 PM

It is the shrunken bubble effect I am looking at, not anything else. Screw algae, anyway, I have Isopropanol in my unit's veins for that.

I am trying to stay away from WW or Hyperlube because of my Clearflex tubes ... I think they would stank somethin' fierce with that stuff slowly bleeding through.

bigben2k · 12-11-2002, 10:23 AM

Thanks for the interesting bit of info!

Here's the stuff:

bigben2k · 12-30-2002, 10:29 AM

It has begun!

December 29th, 9h25 AM (central).

2 jars:

#1: 1 part Jet-Dry, 4 parts water.

#2: windshield wiper fluid

Jars are sealed.

I used 1/2 inch elbows, and glued them together using clear primer and PVC cement. I turned the parts into each other, and then pulled them back out about 1/8 inch, to make sure that there was a significant amount of glue exposed.

Pics later.

Mikey Boo · 12-30-2002, 10:39 AM

okay a couple of questions here for me...

#1 windshield washer fluid, why?

#2 does anyone still use Water Wetter?

#3 wouldnt the water wetter be just as good as the jeydry for the anti bubble concept?

bigben2k · 12-30-2002, 10:47 AM

Good questions, from a fellow Canadian!

#1: because it will be my cooling solution, in phase 3 (chiller), and because it is rumored that methanol may interact slightly with PVC.

#2: Plenty of people use it. What's important is that it's good for rigs with different metals, which is what I'll be avoiding, as much as possible.

#3: That's unknown, but probably.

bigben2k · 01-16-2003, 02:06 PM

This experiment's about to end!

I'll remove the parts from the fluids this weekend.

I'll scratch the surface of the PVC, to see if any of it has softened. I'll twist the elbows (by hand), to see if the glue still holds.

Note: I forgot to mention that I let the parts dry for two days, before starting this.

ref1050

gmat · 01-16-2003, 04:22 PM

WHy letting the parts dry ? 'In situ' the parts are wet...
BTW i'm now making my own additive, a mix of 90% 'rincing liquid' (for dish washers) and 10% anti-bacterial dish washing liquid. Works like a charm, has a nice odor and is totally transparent...

bigben2k · 01-16-2003, 05:13 PM

I meant that I let the glue dry for 2 days, before dunking them.

I think that there's a clear Jet-Dry... Oh yes, there it is:
JET-DRY® Rinse Agent with Baking Soda (?)
JET-DRY® Rinse Agent with Citrus Vinegar (clear)
JET-DRY® Rinse Agent Lemon Scent (yellow)

That's a good idea gmat, but isn't the anti-bacterial in that soap kinda weak? On the other hand, soap is soap...

gmat · 01-17-2003, 10:45 AM

This is the kind of dish washing liquid that you put in very small quantities - usually a few drops in a 10 liters sink is enough to act on a pile of plates... So i get it's quite strong (and its anti-bacterial properties are touted in big & red on the bottle...).
About the rinsing liquid: what i got is pure rinsing liquid, no color, no odor, no additive. It contains only "rinse agent" (=tensio-active agent).

bigben2k · 01-27-2003, 07:27 PM

I haven't terminated this experiment yet...

Here's a pic of the jars:
(left, Jet-Dry. right: windshield wiper fluid)

bigben2k · 03-24-2003, 10:27 AM

Finally!

March 23, I removed the parts from their jars.

Total time exposed: 85 days.

#1: glue integrity
I'm happy to report that the glue held. It was rock solid. I tried twisting the pieces apart, with all my strength, and it wouldn't budge.

#2: PVC
The PVC did not show any effect from exposure.

I used a razor blade to score the PVC, first with a dry part, for reference, then with the exposed parts. There was no apparent softening of the PVC.

#3: chemical reaction
The Jet Dry solution was as clear as day one.

The Windshield Wiper fluid solution however, developped a slime (pic below).

I picked some of it out of the water, and it has a texture similar to paper, and that's where I expect it actually came from: the sticky/labels.

utabintarbo · 03-24-2003, 10:48 AM

I like the jars!

bigben2k · 03-24-2003, 11:00 AM

He he, I found them at a dollar store. They have a plastic double seal, and are marked (outside) with something about the Olympics. They're glass, that's all I cared about!

12-10-2002, 12:43 PM	#6
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	You have me intrigued. How is it coming so far? I may have to do this, though I'd hate to murder a $140 pump on a rumor .... Also, wouldn't this stuff eventually corrode the metal in your system? Does it have any effect on your PVC glue (very important to me!)? __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

12-10-2002, 01:04 PM	#7
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	I can run some more tests, if that interests you. I only had 2 drops of the stuff in about half a gallon jug of tap water. I can try to slap a couple of pieces of PVC together, and immerse them in a container with various solutions of Jet-Dry and tap and/or distilled water (a la DigitalChaos ). In my airtrap, there's a silicone (goop!) seal, so the coolant never reached the PVC cement. Let me know. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

12-10-2002, 01:32 PM	#8
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	That would rule, if you could. I'll also look around for scrap parts from the project to run my own tests on, if I can find any. I still have air noise on my pump (it runs about 35 dB between that and vibration ... even when padded in 1" of neoprene and sitting on a folded towel), and would LOVE to get rid of it, though in the scheme of things might only save me a dB in total noise output. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

12-10-2002, 01:51 PM	#9
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Ok. I'll try: -distilled water 100% -distilled water with 2 drops of Jet-Dry -distilled with Jet-Dry (4 oz additive to 1 gal water ratio) -tap water 100% -tap water with 2 drops of Jet-Dry -tap with Jet-Dry (4 oz additive to 1 gal water ratio) I'm also going to try it with windshield wiper fluid, with the above solutions (because I need to) . [edit] oh, and just for kicks, I'll try 100% Jet-Dry!) [/edit] Jars will be glass, sealed with Cling-wrap and a rubber band. I'll keep them out of the sunlight. For the PVC parts, I'll get the cheapest smallest parts, probably 1/2 street elbows, schedule 40, glued together with the clear primer (schedule 40) and cement, applied as per manufacturer instructions. Would that be objectionable to anyone? __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

12-10-2002, 03:15 PM	#10
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	Sounds good, though 100% jet dry would be a waste, I think. It would be like using 100% water wetter ... the water itself is the cooling medium while the wetter just tweaks its properties. Knowing which % of jet dry would be nice, though. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

12-09-2002, 08:06 PM	#2
nicozeg Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 403	I don't understand too much the difference between this and common dishwashing detergent

12-09-2002, 09:02 PM	#3
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	They both (appear to) be surfactants (soap), without making an outrageous amount of bubbles. They are a benefit because they help reduce the boundary layer, the area of flow closest to the inner walls of a tube (or a waterblock), which in turn may improve cooling a bit. The Jet-Dry is already liquid, so there is no worry about having solids running through a loop which could damage the pump. (although liquid dish detergent is also available). Also, the soap should help prevent the growth of algae. Hey, for $1.00, it was worth a shot. I just wanted something to keep my tubes clear. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

12-09-2002, 09:28 PM	#4
nicozeg Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 403	I'm not an expert in fluids, but I think that boundary layer is more related to viscosity than surface tension One time I run my system for several hours with some powder dishwashing detergent dissolved in the water, trying to clean the hoses. It did a great job, but never thought of leaving it there. Maybe it's worth a try , I like the algae prevention part.

12-10-2002, 04:06 PM	#11
natopotato Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 15	jet dry is the old-school additive. Before watter wetter and purple ice became popular with overclockers, jet dry was the weapon of choice for many a water cooler. I don't think is the best choice these days but it'll work in a pinch. edit: jet dry was used to control growth of algae and such more than prevent corrosion. there are better alternates to be found for either purposes.

12-10-2002, 06:26 PM	#12
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	It is the shrunken bubble effect I am looking at, not anything else. Screw algae, anyway, I have Isopropanol in my unit's veins for that. I am trying to stay away from WW or Hyperlube because of my Clearflex tubes ... I think they would stank somethin' fierce with that stuff slowly bleeding through. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

12-30-2002, 10:29 AM	#14
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	It has begun! December 29th, 9h25 AM (central). 2 jars: #1: 1 part Jet-Dry, 4 parts water. #2: windshield wiper fluid Jars are sealed. I used 1/2 inch elbows, and glued them together using clear primer and PVC cement. I turned the parts into each other, and then pulled them back out about 1/8 inch, to make sure that there was a significant amount of glue exposed. Pics later. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

12-30-2002, 10:39 AM	#15
Mikey Boo Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 78	okay a couple of questions here for me... #1 windshield washer fluid, why? #2 does anyone still use Water Wetter? #3 wouldnt the water wetter be just as good as the jeydry for the anti bubble concept? __________________ Watercoolin + a leak = a wet floor

12-30-2002, 10:47 AM	#16
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Good questions, from a fellow Canadian! #1: because it will be my cooling solution, in phase 3 (chiller), and because it is rumored that methanol may interact slightly with PVC. #2: Plenty of people use it. What's important is that it's good for rigs with different metals, which is what I'll be avoiding, as much as possible. #3: That's unknown, but probably. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

01-16-2003, 02:06 PM	#17
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	This experiment's about to end! I'll remove the parts from the fluids this weekend. I'll scratch the surface of the PVC, to see if any of it has softened. I'll twist the elbows (by hand), to see if the glue still holds. Note: I forgot to mention that I let the parts dry for two days, before starting this. ref1050 __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

01-16-2003, 04:22 PM	#18
gmat Thermophile Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,221	WHy letting the parts dry ? 'In situ' the parts are wet... BTW i'm now making my own additive, a mix of 90% 'rincing liquid' (for dish washers) and 10% anti-bacterial dish washing liquid. Works like a charm, has a nice odor and is totally transparent...

01-16-2003, 05:13 PM	#19
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	I meant that I let the glue dry for 2 days, before dunking them. I think that there's a clear Jet-Dry... Oh yes, there it is: JET-DRY® Rinse Agent with Baking Soda (?) JET-DRY® Rinse Agent with Citrus Vinegar (clear) JET-DRY® Rinse Agent Lemon Scent (yellow) That's a good idea gmat, but isn't the anti-bacterial in that soap kinda weak? On the other hand, soap is soap... __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

01-17-2003, 10:45 AM	#20
gmat Thermophile Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,221	This is the kind of dish washing liquid that you put in very small quantities - usually a few drops in a 10 liters sink is enough to act on a pile of plates... So i get it's quite strong (and its anti-bacterial properties are touted in big & red on the bottle...). About the rinsing liquid: what i got is pure rinsing liquid, no color, no odor, no additive. It contains only "rinse agent" (=tensio-active agent).

03-24-2003, 10:48 AM	#23
utabintarbo Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sterling Hts., MI Posts: 496	I like the jars! __________________ Sarcasm is yet another of the free services we offer!

03-24-2003, 11:00 AM	#24
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	He he, I found them at a dollar store. They have a plastic double seal, and are marked (outside) with something about the Olympics. They're glass, that's all I cared about! __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

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