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General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums.

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Unread 03-12-2003, 11:52 AM   #26
dr.chaos
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Maybe this link http://www.geocities.com/ufoengines/diskpump.html
could be helpful to you.

BTW I read that CDROMs are not good for building a tesla pump, becouse they are too flexible (they are sufficient for building a tesla fan)
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Unread 03-12-2003, 11:57 AM   #27
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Ok, ill chime in on this one. Why on earth would you want to put the pump assembly on the little motor? You would have very little preassure. But its a great idea. Why not take a look at a cheap RC car. Look at the small ass motor they put on those things, Yet they can go pretty fast with good amounts of torque. Look at making a small gearbox. To get faster RPMS and added torqe and will also make your motor last longer.



my 2 cents.

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Unread 03-12-2003, 12:38 PM   #28
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a gearbox cannot give BOTH more RPM and more Torque. It can give one or the other.
For a tesla style pump, it seems to me that RPM would be the determining factor in performance.
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Unread 03-12-2003, 01:23 PM   #29
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LOL Fixittt, did you see the size of that motor? I think it couldn't even power a gearbox!
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Unread 03-15-2003, 02:17 PM   #30
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I've made the lower side of the pump housing and the base disk for the impeller.

Of course in lathed epoxy; Did I say that epoxy is one of the best inventions of 20th century?
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Unread 03-15-2003, 02:18 PM   #31
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Now I'm working on the rest of the housing.
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Unread 03-15-2003, 06:49 PM   #32
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oh that's nice, I like that
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Unread 03-15-2003, 07:21 PM   #33
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Hope this turns out well.

And if low pressure is an issue you can always run a bunch of these in parellel .
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Unread 03-15-2003, 07:48 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gulp35
Hope this turns out well.

And if low pressure is an issue you can always run a bunch of these in parellel .
parallel is for more flow volume, series is for higher pressure.
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Unread 03-15-2003, 09:37 PM   #35
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What about using a motor from a hard drive??? Preferably from a 7200 RPM drive. I would assume a HD motor would have a lot more power (torque - whatever) than a fan motor.

Hell...it even has the disks for the impeller
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Unread 03-16-2003, 03:37 AM   #36
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Nico!, how does it work?, the epox will go all around the outside of the wooden mold?...

It's amazing stuff all right, I never knew it could be used like you've shown us, opened up a whole new area...

I'd like to see your 'swirl' baseplate machined as well...

Kudos...

PS, I've just noticed the channel widens out towards the exitpoint, good thinking!, wonder if it'll work?...
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Unread 03-16-2003, 10:25 AM   #37
nicozeg
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cptn. Foo Foo
What about using a motor from a hard drive??? Preferably from a 7200 RPM drive. I would assume a HD motor would have a lot more power (torque - whatever) than a fan motor.

Hell...it even has the disks for the impeller
... and it's perfectly balanced

I've thought that; I have an old hard drive dismantled from where I take out the magnet of the head assembly. Unfortunately the motor electronics are located on the drive pcb, and it only spins for 5 seconds without the head.

Quote:
Nico!, how does it work?, the epox will go all around the outside of the wooden mold?...

It's amazing stuff all right, I never knew it could be used like you've shown us, opened up a whole new area...
nevermind, that was a work in progress pic, it lacks the outer shape.

I'm using slow curing epoxi, the one used for fibers impregnation for reinforced plastics. It's a lot more fluid than adhessive tipe, allows a good work time, it's absolutely waterproof, and I buy it by the Kg.

For the mold I'm using soft cardboard, painted with errr unmoldant? "desmoldante" in spanish.
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Unread 03-16-2003, 11:51 AM   #38
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You could use an old cd-rom motor. I know some RC guys who use those...

Seems like an interesting project. If it works we'll all have a new toy to get
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Unread 03-17-2003, 03:55 AM   #39
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Is that cardboard you've used to mold the impellor housing?, looks like wood strips!...

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I'd imagine HD & CD motors would be too wimpy, try the windscreen wiper motor of a car nico, they're 12V and you'd have some serious head!...

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Thinking about it, it HAS to be a fan motor, the magnets have to be outside the sealed coils, with motors the coils are usualy on the shaft that spins. Anything that uses brushes or a simular principal would be useless...

'Normal' motors are back to front/topsy~turvy if you know what I mean :shrug: ...

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These would make excellent pumps for NB & GPU only loops, coupled with a micro~radiator...
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Unread 03-17-2003, 08:00 AM   #40
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As I remember it, CD and HD motors are steppers, but the power rating would still be fairly weak. It should be more powerful than a fan motor though.
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Unread 03-17-2003, 09:32 PM   #41
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Get a bigger fan. You can probably find surplus 120mm+ fans with very high powered motors if you look hard enough. I know I've seen PDFs for 20w DC fans before.
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Unread 03-17-2003, 09:42 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by redleader
Get a bigger fan. You can probably find surplus 120mm+ fans with very high powered motors if you look hard enough. I know I've seen PDFs for 20w DC fans before.
True, but they're "low-torque" motors. Pressing it in water will cause it to run much slower, and with less force/torque.

The stepper is starting to look good to me, but would require a controller. It could be tweaked for maximum rpm/torque...
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Unread 03-18-2003, 11:46 AM   #43
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Quote:
Is that cardboard you've used to mold the impellor housing?, looks like wood strips!...
Well, this one is commonly called "Wood cardboard" It's 1mm thick but very soft to cut. I used a continuous strip with several half depht cuts to curve it.

Quote:
Get a bigger fan. You can probably find surplus 120mm+ fans with very high powered motors if you look hard enough. I know I've seen PDFs for 20w DC fans before.
I've seen 2 amps 12v 120mm fans, but are expensive to buy new to tear it apart, not very cost effective.:shrug:

Maybe it's possible to buy the brushless DC motor alone...
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Unread 03-19-2003, 03:50 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by nicozeg



I've seen 2 amps 12v 120mm fans, but are expensive to buy new to tear it apart, not very cost effective.:shrug:

Hmm...

i got one of those (170mm) its a BEAST! 300cfm

i might rip it apart if this works good enough, only paid $15CAD
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Unread 03-20-2003, 04:00 PM   #45
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the project is very interesting considering the material of choise,

Pass or fail, I think it has broaden the insites of some of the DIYers as to the mediums we can use.

Now what I would like to see, is a HOW TO article writen up on just how you made the parts. From start to finish, to get an idea as to what other uses it may have (Jet knozzels comes to mind) and how hard or easy it is to work with.


PLEASE.... I asked nicley
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Unread 03-21-2003, 10:45 AM   #46
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Quote:
the project is very interesting considering the material of choise,

Pass or fail, I think it has broaden the insites of some of the DIYers as to the mediums we can use.

Now what I would like to see, is a HOW TO article writen up on just how you made the parts. From start to finish, to get an idea as to what other uses it may have (Jet knozzels comes to mind) and how hard or easy it is to work with.


PLEASE.... I asked nicley
Thanks, you flatter me

I don’t consider myself an expert in plastics; just have some DIY experience that can be helpful for the novice. Unfortunately can’t make a step by step guide as I don’t have many pictures of the process. Now I have the pump almost done but my brother is using the digicam for some days so there’s no pics to show.

The most commonly available resin for diy work is polyester, it’s very cheap and hard, but brittle. It requires precise dosification of components at hard to measure 50/1 relationships. That’s why I prefer epoxy, It’s more expensive but easier to mix, and very tough. It’s clear and can be polished for a crystal finish but you need to be very careful at mixing, as it likes to trap tiny bubbles. Ideally you should put the fresh mix in a vacuum chamber to extract all bubbles, but that’s not common equipment for DIYers. Another thing important with epoxy is curing; it could take weeks to reach at ambient temps the hardness you get with some hours of heat. In summer just can be left under the sun (if your sun is good enough ), or leave it close to a hot lamp.

Hope this helps, feel free to ask anything you want.
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Unread 03-21-2003, 06:50 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by nicozeg
Thanks, you flatter me

I don’t consider myself an expert in plastics; just have some DIY experience that can be helpful for the novice. Unfortunately can’t make a step by step guide as I don’t have many pictures of the process. Now I have the pump almost done but my brother is using the digicam for some days so there’s no pics to show.

The most commonly available resin for diy work is polyester, it’s very cheap and hard, but brittle. It requires precise dosification of components at hard to measure 50/1 relationships. That’s why I prefer epoxy, It’s more expensive but easier to mix, and very tough. It’s clear and can be polished for a crystal finish but you need to be very careful at mixing, as it likes to trap tiny bubbles. Ideally you should put the fresh mix in a vacuum chamber to extract all bubbles, but that’s not common equipment for DIYers. Another thing important with epoxy is curing; it could take weeks to reach at ambient temps the hardness you get with some hours of heat. In summer just can be left under the sun (if your sun is good enough ), or leave it close to a hot lamp.

Hope this helps, feel free to ask anything you want.
Ok, so can you just place the piece in the oven at say, 200 degrees? (F)? or is that too hot? To cure it, i mean.
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Unread 03-21-2003, 08:09 PM   #48
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That little fan does in my honest opinion will not have enough tourque to give you more than a mear trickle.

I have made alot of rc boats and i am very familiar with the dynamics of water. The overall drag surface of a pump impellar is extremely large and requires alot of torque something that little motor will not give. This is just my two cents, and in this case i would love to be proven wrong, as I like how the structure of the pump is coming along.
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Unread 03-21-2003, 09:02 PM   #49
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He stated before that it is a test, and the real pump will be made by the "largest fan he can find".

Interesting enough, i have an old blow drier electrical motor wich is rated for 12v->24v . It has a substancial amout of torq. I'm not really interested in making a 12v pump but it is a good place to look for more "powerful" dc engines.
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Unread 03-21-2003, 10:39 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by Althornin
Ok, so can you just place the piece in the oven at say, 200 degrees? (F)? or is that too hot? To cure it, i mean.
A temp controlled oven is ideal, just don't use the same you use for food cause everything will taste like plastic... I don't know the exact temp, just know it by touch. Is something that you can grab without burning, but not hold very much. sorry, no more precise data. With more heat it hardens faster, but it becomes yellowish.

About motors, the key factor is "brushless", to be able to seal it completely. Common DC motors will require a seal in the rotating shaft that is going to fail over time.
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