Cyclone: Final Prod. Plans, pls input

[airspirit]

Okay, there's been a little bit of a rework of the idea now that I have a godly CNC machine available to me. My brother is going to help me crank a batch of these out, and I want/need input on any aspect of this that can be enhance.

PLEASE SHARE YOUR COMMENTS! If you think it won't work for any reason, I'm begging you to let me know why. Jaydee, Ben, Bill, all y'all: I need your expert advice.

The plan will be to run a batch of six of these some time in late summer/early fall. I will be using polished copper 110 for the bottom at a thickness of 5/16". The center pinset will be thinner at 3/16". The pins will be as small as possible, and I'm shooting for 1/16" pins with 1/16" gaps, or possibly 3/32" pins if that is not feasable. With the aid of the CNC, I've been able to consolidate the top chamber, nozzle, and barb thread pieces into one chunk of lexan. It will measure 2"x2"x1.5". It will be that thick in order to ensure that the lexan will not crack. Between the lexan and the copper will be an O-ring. The two components will be held together by four bolts and four nuts (no threads to damage the lexan piece) with the bolt tops inset into the copper. The block will be retained by the four socket holes. In common orientation, the exhaust barbs will be exiting above and below the socket so as not to interfere with the retention mechanism (my #1 pet peeve with 90% of the blocks out there). This may interfere with installation on some boards due to PSU clearance, but can be remedied using 90 degree polyethelene hose barbs in almost all cases (except the ABIT NF7 series boards, to my knowledge).

The injected flow will be reduced through a true nozzle (my brother is working on this ratio ... he's kind of scary in his mechanical knowledge from auto design) to pound the pinset and will exhaust through offset vents to cause a swirling in the central chamber to ensure no hot spots. Since the exhausts are raised from the baseplate, it will force (due to the coolant input from the nozzle) the heated water away from the die area of the block and ensure proper coolant and heat flow in the block. I can think of no errors in this design (my last one had retention flaws that would have caused leaking ... my bro caught that problem: this one, however, is absolutely leakproof), but I am sure there are ways to improve it.

As for materials, he found a supplier for lexan blocks at a decent price and will be machining it on the CNC to keep the measurements exact. I am planning to make a production run of six of these in one shot, so I want to ensure that the design is as close to perfect (insofar as my design concept can be called perfect) as possible to avoid wasting time and materials. I am planning on keeping three of them for personal use and testing, sending one to BillA if he wants to play with it and see how it stacks up (shiz, he could probably keep it when done in compensation for the trouble), and the other two will probably be sold and shipped for around $20-25 USD (to cover part of the costs of production ... and this is assuming the concept works AT LEAST as well as the Jagged Edge blocks at Becooling ... I will not sell a piece of crap block to ANYONE).

What I need now is a supplier for the long and thin retention bolts used on the board, the thin springs used in these retention clips (I've never been able to find them), and a place I can get a few dozen of those thumbnuts (that sounds funny, hehe). If you have any ideas, please let me know.

Anyway, here is the "final" sketch. The yellow areas are the O-ring groove and the blue areas will be threaded for the PE hose barbs (1/2" ID). The top drawing is the base plate, and the bottom is the lexan top. To the side is a mockup of how the pinset will look on the bottom (it is there to do nothing but increase surface area and allow water closer to the die, thickness-wise).

Please Please PLEASE comment, as I want to allow him to start working on the CNC programming as soon as possible in order for it to be more convenient for him. I imagine that this will be a biznatch to do.

(And Getty, your input would be excellent as well!).

[Rayman2k2]

hmm....seems like it would be a good preformer. alot of surface area, but im not sure if it would be restrictive or not...

[airspirit]

Oh, and if this works well, I may eventually port this design to the hammer platform (scaled up in size for the larger die size and using the two mounting holes).

[airspirit]

I'm shooting for lower restriction, though the nozzle will definitely add some to the mix. Does anyone have a supplier for O-rings or an alternative method of sealing?

[airspirit]

PROBLEM #1: At what thickness will a plate of copper not be able to support the force from the clamping mechanism? I am assuming 20 lbs of force distributed between the four corner holes. I would like to keep the baseplate as thin as possible, so any help would be greatly appreciated.

[bigben2k]

I really can't help you with the bp thickness: I've asked my cousin, who's a mechanical engineer, and I have a sample engineering program I ordered, and I still can't figure it out.:shrug: So if anyone has any ideas, I'd like to hear it too!

As for the design, I think you've got something that's ready to go into production, but I think you'll find that you'll have to slip in different nozzling plates, to find the best performance point which, by the way, depends on the pump you'll be using (or in your case, the pressure and flow you are going to have available).

As for the springs, bolts, and o-ring, I found them all at McMasters, but buying the bolts/nuts/washers was cheaper from a local hardware store.

As a tip, I can tell you to look for 9 lb springs; I got 6 lbs springs, and that means I'll be maxing them out where 9lb springs would have given me a little bit more flexibility. McMaster's website is tricky, when it comes to selecting springs, and you're better off printing their catalog pages. Just pick a 9 lb spring, with an inner diameter as close to the 6-32 screws OD as is possible: figure out the bolt length later.

In this particular design, I'd have to recomend a bp thickness in the order of 2 to 3 mm, unless you plan to run that Gen-X4 pump on this block alone!

[airspirit]

I don't understand the pump comment, though I do agree on the nozzling effect. My brother does mechanical engineering and deals with nozzles for injection in vehicle engines ... I am trusting him to find the best place to start with since this is one area in which I am utterly clueless. I am trying to keep the top part in one piece to minimize complexity and manufacturing time (using a CNC mill will make this a cakewalk). Keeping the nozzle integrated also removes one more joint through which potential leakage can occur (that's the primary reasoning behind it ... plus, it's r33t methinks).

Please educate me on your baseplate comment. This is the one area of the block that I am leery of, since I haven't the faintest clue what thickness will hold the retention torque without bending and simultaneously allow for good die cooling.

I'm wondering how hard it would be to etch cool shiz into the top of the acrylic block using the mill ... just for eye candy. Something like "CYCLONE ... THE COOLINATOR" (hehe). That doesn't matter, though, in the scheme of things. The mechanics of it comes first.

Thanks for the McMasters tip ... I'll check there tonight.

[bigben2k]

Ok. consider White Water for a sec: the bp there is "less than 1.0 mm", it uses a jet to the max potential of a pump, and it's got continous fins.

In your design, you have some throttling, but not anything near what WW does, with a small slit.

You have some throttling, but it's nowhere near the jet action of WW, and I don't think you could state that the flow is directed at the baseplate. In fact, the pins are probably gonna make sure that the flow has a much harder time hitting the baseplate.

The pins really can't compensate for the continuous fins.

You have to compensate for all that with a thicker baseplate, otherwise the heat will be too concentrated, and you'll get a higher CPU temp. A thicker bp allows the heat to spread laterally, and get into the coolant well enough.

[Cathar]

I just want to point out that on a marketing aspect that there is already a commercial waterblock product that uses the "Cyclone" name by Silverprop. Unless you want to create confusion, and perhaps attract some unwanted attention, a name change would probably be in order.

[airspirit]

Thanks for the clarification, Ben. That makes absoute sense. I am also considering cutting the pins into a pyramid shape (didn't you mention that before?) to help this issue, but what you said confirmed some of my supicions. I will probably be leaving the base under the pins at 3/16-1/4" thick.

Cathar: I wasn't aware someone else was using that name ... hmm ... gotta think up something new. I wasn't planning on marketing this block under ANY name (unless someone ever wanted to license it from me for some whacked reason), but rather have just been using that name as a personal reference to the design (I have about two dozen of them kicking around, and I don't like any of them as much as this one). I'll think up something else ... thanks for the heads up.

How about: VorteX? Sounds ghey ... args, I hate creative crap.

[Blackeagle]

Use tornado, cyclone is a slang term for a tornado anyway. Both call up a picture in the mind of a funnel cloud spinning at great speed.

Just as you want the water to act in your block.

[LiquidRulez]

You should call it what ever you want....but naming it is a little ahead of the game I think. You dont even know what it'll do yet.

Yeah. Theories and ideas look so great on paper (or in CAD), but sometimes just dont work as great when they're made and tested in the physical world.

Go for it though...You'll never know until you make one!

[airspirit]

That's exactly right, LR. I'm just feeling around for glaring errors in my design, and polishing it up for production. I may be doing this in June, depending on whether or not the CNC lab at western is going to be available and my brother has time. The results will definitely be interesting ... however they turn out. I do, however, want to have the best conceptual design possible before I start cutting.

[LiquidRulez]

Originally posted by airspirit
I do, however, want to have the best conceptual design possible before I start cutting.

Thats a tall order to fill.....BUT
Thats understandable.
The appearance is ,initially, the most important thing anyway.
Some will say that they care not what it looks like, as long as its a performer.....I think theyre full of it, personally.
I dont know of anyone who wants a butt ugly WB sitting inside of there >$2000 PC's..Even if it beats a WW!...........................


The concept is just the beginning .

Even the best of the best, will go through many iterations before a final prototype is achieved.

Its all really just trial and error. Deriving the concept is the easy part........actually making it function as the concept is a different thing entirely.
It is, however , easier for some to do.

regards

LR

[airspirit]

That's one of the goals, LR: a pretty block that functions at least good, and at best VERY good. I don't expect WW type performance, and I'm not shooting for that. I'm shooting for a cheaply manufactured block that would be at home in someone's pimp rig and will cool it more than acceptably.

As far as my etching comment earlier goes, it is something that can and will be done. I'm planning on etching cool shiz all over the outsides of the lexan block, and I'll probably add two dimples in case someone wants to add LEDs to it for that azn look.

Ideas on stuff to etch would be nice as well, though definitely not of any kind of priority.

[airspirit]

My bro is working on some 3d studio max pix that will demo the concept better ... I hope to have those for you soon.

[MadDogMe]

Was'nt there a bit of a scuffle about whether this design would create a 'swirl' effect in the water quite a while back?, judging by the name you think it will?...

Could'nt you use a slitting saw to cut the pins?, just cut lines up>down then left>right instead of CNC milling it?....

[Fixittt]

here is one suggestion for you before you go into max production.

make 1 or 2 first...... test, retest, change, redesign, test, retest, change, redesing....... final...... production. Cut your finger, bleed, curse, polish.


that about covers how it will go

[airspirit]

I will probably end up doing that. I'll be making two initially, testing them both, and then cranking out the final four with any last minute adjustments I feel are necessary. The initial two will be my keepers while the other four will be split between my brother, the two lucky buyers (if it works good), and Bill if he wants to screw with one.

The nice thing is that manufacturing will be a snap ... the mill he will be using allows for easy programming and it basically does everything for him.

[ChrioN]

Originally posted by Fixittt
here is one suggestion for you before you go into max production.

make 1 or 2 first...... test, retest, change, redesign, test, retest, change, redesing....... final...... production. Cut your finger, bleed, curse, polish.


that about covers how it will go

´


couldn't agree more. and fixittt is a safe source, because he has written the longest post ever (!)

[Fixittt]

You SIG reader you!!!!!!!!!!


And you have no idea how hard it was to get that damn g-code right.

[airspirit]

The coding isn't my concern ... that's my brother's problem. With that said, it comes very easily to him, so I don't anticipate there being a problem here. You would be ... "amused" ... if you heard some of the antics he gets up to in his CNC classes. I think he is taking the class just to show the others in the class how r33t he is or something ... it's not like he's going to learn anything there, though I guess the real reason is if he takes the course then he'll be able to have full access to the mill for his own projects, and he has a Porsche that is probably going to be riced up in the near future ....

[Fixittt]

Ohhhhhh that gives me an idea. I wonder if I can turn out a turbo for my widdle geo storm.

[airspirit]

Don't waste your time. A turboed Storm probably has as much juice as a riding lawnmower ... I mean, you'd be almost up to 8HP, right?

If you do it, don't forget to paint "TYPE R" in big red splash lettering on the fenders and cover your windows in japanese characters.

[Fixittt]

yeah your right..... a turbo storm is prolly not the way to go.

Can I bottle it? huh HUH huh Cann I?