sans res?

Talik · 04-29-2003, 02:41 PM

I've noticed some people don't use a resevoir. Is there a problem with running a water system without one other than release of air bubbles? It seems like a much smaller air trap would be just as effective as a large, heavy, resevoir at removing the air from the system. Unless the resevoir does something to balance the pressure before and after the pump?

bigben2k · 04-29-2003, 02:52 PM

Other than release of air bubbles, no.

Most people who use a res do so because there's a pump in it.

Some people use a res, and prey that it adds to the cooling, or is super effective at removing bubbles.

Some people state that they have a res when really, it's an airtrap, and isn't as large as the name implies.

A lot of people report using the Tee as an airtrap.

Here's mine (below). I've rebuilt it since then, with 3/4 fittings, instead of "1 1/2".

Talik · 04-29-2003, 03:13 PM

Why did you decide to go with such a big air trap? Is all that size really necessary? Do the smaller tees that people report using as an airtrap work as well?

bigben2k · 04-29-2003, 03:28 PM

The original size was to reduce the flow restriction. I wrote an article about it, but it didn't get published.:shrug:

The idea was to have an effective airtrap. The 1/2" tee that most people use is surprisingly restrictive, so I've rebuilt it using 3/4" parts.

With the old 1 1/2 parts, it cleared all the air within 10 seconds.

I'll be testing the new one this weekend, maybe.

The nice thing about it is that the end caps are screwed in, so you can replace the barbs to match whatever size hose you use.

Talik · 04-30-2003, 01:05 PM

Thanks bb, I think I'll ditch the res idea and run the water through a 1-2" wide, maybe 1-2' long, vertical tube that goes outside my case with an airtrap at top. Or is that just an elongated resevoir?

Since starting my water project, I've split my computer in two and my workstation has been downsized to a full tower, so I'm a little more crunched for space. But I no longer have to worry about weird overclock crashes from my raid and scsi controllers.

Does this seem like an effective air trap?

Cyco-Dude · 04-30-2003, 01:22 PM

looks kinda awkward to me. if possible try to mount the pump low, and have the res / airtrap (whatever you want to call it its all good) lead to the pumps untake. that way the airtrap will prime the pump which will make filling / bleeding a lot easier.

bigben2k · 04-30-2003, 01:27 PM

You can mount the pump lower, or raise the airtrap.

How did you put that picture together?

Talik · 04-30-2003, 01:33 PM

hmm... I was thinking about putting the pump next to the radiator on the bottom of the case, but It doesn't quite fit. My large geforce 4 card gets in the way. The only way to make it work would be to move the radiator somewhere else or mount the pump outside the case directly under the res. I don't think I can fit the heatercore anywhere else in my case unless I layed it horizontally blowing out(or in) the top of the case. That screams "spill in me" quite loudly to me. As for the other option, mounting the pump outside the case, I think that that would break off easily when moving and block all of my cables which need to plug into my computer down there.

Talik · 04-30-2003, 01:38 PM

I might be able to raise the airtrap a little, but I'd rather not have it sticking out above the case. I'm at work right now, so I don't have exact sizes of my case or pump, but I think I could probably get the water level in the airtrap to sit just above the pump's highest point.

I threw together the line art in Illustrator 10, and colored it and added the water line in Photoshop 7.

ps. drawing stuff on a computer is what I do: http://talik.deviantart.com

Talik · 04-30-2003, 01:42 PM

Another possibility I just thought of that would require a bit of case modding would be to raise the power supply to the very top of the case and put the pump directly under the psu.\

[EDIT] Or stand the psu upright and put the pump next to it. [/EDIT]

Cyco-Dude · 04-30-2003, 01:55 PM

aww, and i made this pretty picture for nothing

would it be possible to mount the rad where the res is, and get a different res (like an electrical junction box or something)?? or if you havent bought the rad yet just get a shorter one so the pump can fit under it?? if mounting the pump high like that is the only feasable option, just be sure the intake / pump housing will be primed by the res.

bigben2k · 04-30-2003, 02:10 PM

Yep.

Here's my expected layout (incomplete):

saton472 · 04-30-2003, 02:45 PM

You want the outtake of the res at the bottom of the res and the intake at top. that way you have bubbel free water going through water blockes. YOu want the res before the pump because if its after then the res will be pressurized giving the chance of it rupturing or exploding

Talik · 04-30-2003, 02:50 PM

CD: The res is outside the case, in the back, and the only reason it works there, is because I'll use a clear plastic tube that'll sit to the right of my pci slots, so I wouldn't be able to fit a rad there. I might be able to fit the pump next to the rad as in your picture, but then there wouldn't be room for a fan on the sucking side of the rad. And if I just went with blown air, wouldn't the pump hinder airflow in the part it covers? I have already bought the heater core, and it ended up being bigger than I thought it would be, the grill is 9 x 6something but the total size is about 11" long by 7" wide. I already had to remove my floppy/hd bays that sit under my 5.25's.

BB: Great copy pasting work on that image.

I'm glad that's not complete, or you'd have some serious problems getting water from your res to your pump. Really, though. Curious to see how you connect the rad, psu, and hdd. Is that a dual proc? or mb cooling? if dual, why did you decide to run in series rather than parallel?

bigben2k · 04-30-2003, 03:08 PM

It's an NB. If I ran it in parallel, I'd have to add a valve, to divert the flow to the CPU block, otherwise most of the flow would end up going through the DD Z-chip block.

The HDD will probably be in series too, along with the PSU array, but I'm thinking about paralleling them (3 PSUs).

I don't have exact dimensions yet, so I don't know how the rad is going to fit. The pump is actually much larger (longer).

I'm just glad I picked up the big Chieftec server case, but now I wish I had a cube:shrug:

Yeah, you can see I need help with the drawing

Puzzdre · 04-30-2003, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Talik
Thanks bb, I think I'll ditch the res idea and run the water through a 1-2" wide, maybe 1-2' long, vertical tube that goes outside my case with an airtrap at top. Or is that just an elongated resevoir?

Since starting my water project, I've split my computer in two and my workstation has been downsized to a full tower, so I'm a little more crunched for space. But I no longer have to worry about weird overclock crashes from my raid and scsi controllers.

Does this seem like an effective air trap?

Just make sure that you reverse the flow (in opposite like in the pic you posted), you want pump outlet to go to the block(s) or rad first, not in any case in the top of the res.

Talik · 04-30-2003, 03:30 PM

damn... if only there was a way to make my pump fit down there.. Maybe if I cut a hole in my case so the pump would partially sit outside it. I'm seriously thinking of buying a new case. Anyone know of a good case that has 3 5.25 object, no 3.5 objects, is about mid tower in height, but wide enough to fit a 4" wide pump in front of my video card, and will fit my radiator? probably only has to be a couple of inches wider than a regular case. If it's extra wide, I could install my radiator into the wall sucking in from the side.

Cyco-Dude · 04-30-2003, 03:33 PM

how many 5 1/4 bays do you have, 5? do you need them all? could you stuff the pump in the 2 lower spots? lol, im sure some-1 will finger this out

bigben2k · 04-30-2003, 03:40 PM

What model pump is it? How large?

I managed to cram mine in one of the (two) HDD bays. Admittedly, it sticks out by a good 6 inches, but it fits

. My PSU array uses 5 * 5 1/4 bays, as well as the two 3 1/2 bays

leaving me room for one CD-RW drive.

Talik · 04-30-2003, 04:27 PM

I have 5 5.25 bays, and I'm using three of them. I'm not sure the pump would fit in two slots unless I sat it on it's side, but then I'm not sure how the hoses would come out.

I still have that Rio 3100 that you might remember me wishing I hadn't bought a while ago. I figure I'll eventually upgrade to a Eheim 1250, but I want to set up with this so I can compare the two temps give some better feedback to the forum on the flow vs pumpheat issue. I don't think the Eheim is much smaller than my rio.

I found another case that I might buy, as it's only $56.
http://servercase.com/cgi-bin/miva.c...egory_Code=ELS

I think I can install the radiator into the left side door and the pump under the drive bays. Unless I can remove the floppy and hdd bays and fit the radiator under the 5.25 like I was planning with my current setup. Does anyone have this case that would like to give me a measurment of the space from just below the 5.25 bays to the bottom?

bigben2k · 04-30-2003, 04:51 PM

You might have a bit of clearance, above the top 5 1/4 bay, not that it's going to help any...

Do you know which model case you have now? A pic would help.

Talik · 04-30-2003, 05:10 PM

I can't find my case on newegg, and I don't even remember what model it is, I bought it 7 years ago. I'll take some pictures when I get home. Too bad I had to split my computer. The water cooling would have fit very nicely into my server case with plenty of room to spare.

PS. If you want any assistance drawing up your plan, bb, I'd be happy to help. pm me, email me, or aim me.

Arcturius · 04-30-2003, 06:24 PM

This might be a better choice for a cheap, wide case.

I personally don't like working with them, though. Then again, I think I would like the KA580, even less. :-/

What about adding casters or feet to your current case, and mounting the rad to the bottom, with fans on the inside? Then you could mount 25mm thick fans on the inside, and have them blowing at your bottom PCI card.

Talik · 04-30-2003, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Arcturius
This might be a better choice for a cheap, wide case.

I personally don't like working with them, though. Then again, I think I would like the KA580, even less. :-/

What about adding casters or feet to your current case, and mounting the rad to the bottom, with fans on the inside? Then you could mount 25mm thick fans on the inside, and have them blowing at your bottom PCI card.

At 8.7" wide, that case isn't much wider than a normal case. I don't think it would fit my radiator and pump. mounting the radiator under the case isn't a bad idea, but it's a 2" wide radiator. So to have enough space to have the radiator and room for air to flow I would have to have 3" feet onmy case. Plus I would have to build an enclosement for the heater core as they can get banged up very easily. It might be easier to adapt your idea and mount the pump partially sticking out the bottom of the case. My case has pretty big (probably about 1" tall) feet, with an extra inch, I might be able to fit the pump under the geforce 4. I'll look more closely when I get home.

Talik · 04-30-2003, 08:09 PM

Sorry for the crappy image quality.. Still using that crappy camera. The pump will barely fit under the video card, but the tube coming off of the pump would go right through the card. I'm thinking that my best bet is to either buy that extra wide case, or put my psu on it's side and put the pump right next to it

04-29-2003, 02:41 PM	#1
Talik Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Portland Or Posts: 95	sans res? I've noticed some people don't use a resevoir. Is there a problem with running a water system without one other than release of air bubbles? It seems like a much smaller air trap would be just as effective as a large, heavy, resevoir at removing the air from the system. Unless the resevoir does something to balance the pressure before and after the pump? __________________ Reality is nothing more than the delusions of the masses.

04-29-2003, 03:13 PM	#3
Talik Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Portland Or Posts: 95	Why did you decide to go with such a big air trap? Is all that size really necessary? Do the smaller tees that people report using as an airtrap work as well? __________________ Reality is nothing more than the delusions of the masses.

04-29-2003, 03:28 PM	#4
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	The original size was to reduce the flow restriction. I wrote an article about it, but it didn't get published.:shrug: The idea was to have an effective airtrap. The 1/2" tee that most people use is surprisingly restrictive, so I've rebuilt it using 3/4" parts. With the old 1 1/2 parts, it cleared all the air within 10 seconds. I'll be testing the new one this weekend, maybe. The nice thing about it is that the end caps are screwed in, so you can replace the barbs to match whatever size hose you use. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

04-30-2003, 01:27 PM	#7
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	You can mount the pump lower, or raise the airtrap. How did you put that picture together? __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

04-30-2003, 01:33 PM	#8
Talik Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Portland Or Posts: 95	hmm... I was thinking about putting the pump next to the radiator on the bottom of the case, but It doesn't quite fit. My large geforce 4 card gets in the way. The only way to make it work would be to move the radiator somewhere else or mount the pump outside the case directly under the res. I don't think I can fit the heatercore anywhere else in my case unless I layed it horizontally blowing out(or in) the top of the case. That screams "spill in me" quite loudly to me. As for the other option, mounting the pump outside the case, I think that that would break off easily when moving and block all of my cables which need to plug into my computer down there. __________________ Reality is nothing more than the delusions of the masses.

04-30-2003, 01:22 PM	#6
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	looks kinda awkward to me. if possible try to mount the pump low, and have the res / airtrap (whatever you want to call it its all good) lead to the pumps untake. that way the airtrap will prime the pump which will make filling / bleeding a lot easier.

04-30-2003, 01:38 PM	#9
Talik Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Portland Or Posts: 95	I might be able to raise the airtrap a little, but I'd rather not have it sticking out above the case. I'm at work right now, so I don't have exact sizes of my case or pump, but I think I could probably get the water level in the airtrap to sit just above the pump's highest point. I threw together the line art in Illustrator 10, and colored it and added the water line in Photoshop 7. ps. drawing stuff on a computer is what I do: http://talik.deviantart.com __________________ Reality is nothing more than the delusions of the masses. Last edited by Talik; 04-30-2003 at 01:44 PM.

04-30-2003, 01:42 PM	#10
Talik Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Portland Or Posts: 95	Another possibility I just thought of that would require a bit of case modding would be to raise the power supply to the very top of the case and put the pump directly under the psu.\ [EDIT] Or stand the psu upright and put the pump next to it. [/EDIT] __________________ Reality is nothing more than the delusions of the masses.

04-30-2003, 01:55 PM	#11
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	aww, and i made this pretty picture for nothing would it be possible to mount the rad where the res is, and get a different res (like an electrical junction box or something)?? or if you havent bought the rad yet just get a shorter one so the pump can fit under it?? if mounting the pump high like that is the only feasable option, just be sure the intake / pump housing will be primed by the res.

04-30-2003, 02:45 PM	#13
saton472 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 57	You want the outtake of the res at the bottom of the res and the intake at top. that way you have bubbel free water going through water blockes. YOu want the res before the pump because if its after then the res will be pressurized giving the chance of it rupturing or exploding __________________ Live and learn. Then get a Dremel.

04-30-2003, 02:50 PM	#14
Talik Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Portland Or Posts: 95	CD: The res is outside the case, in the back, and the only reason it works there, is because I'll use a clear plastic tube that'll sit to the right of my pci slots, so I wouldn't be able to fit a rad there. I might be able to fit the pump next to the rad as in your picture, but then there wouldn't be room for a fan on the sucking side of the rad. And if I just went with blown air, wouldn't the pump hinder airflow in the part it covers? I have already bought the heater core, and it ended up being bigger than I thought it would be, the grill is 9 x 6something but the total size is about 11" long by 7" wide. I already had to remove my floppy/hd bays that sit under my 5.25's. BB: Great copy pasting work on that image. I'm glad that's not complete, or you'd have some serious problems getting water from your res to your pump. Really, though. Curious to see how you connect the rad, psu, and hdd. Is that a dual proc? or mb cooling? if dual, why did you decide to run in series rather than parallel? __________________ Reality is nothing more than the delusions of the masses.

04-30-2003, 03:08 PM	#15
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	It's an NB. If I ran it in parallel, I'd have to add a valve, to divert the flow to the CPU block, otherwise most of the flow would end up going through the DD Z-chip block. The HDD will probably be in series too, along with the PSU array, but I'm thinking about paralleling them (3 PSUs). I don't have exact dimensions yet, so I don't know how the rad is going to fit. The pump is actually much larger (longer). I'm just glad I picked up the big Chieftec server case, but now I wish I had a cube:shrug: Yeah, you can see I need help with the drawing __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

04-30-2003, 03:30 PM	#17
Talik Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Portland Or Posts: 95	damn... if only there was a way to make my pump fit down there.. Maybe if I cut a hole in my case so the pump would partially sit outside it. I'm seriously thinking of buying a new case. Anyone know of a good case that has 3 5.25 object, no 3.5 objects, is about mid tower in height, but wide enough to fit a 4" wide pump in front of my video card, and will fit my radiator? probably only has to be a couple of inches wider than a regular case. If it's extra wide, I could install my radiator into the wall sucking in from the side. __________________ Reality is nothing more than the delusions of the masses.

04-30-2003, 03:33 PM	#18
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	how many 5 1/4 bays do you have, 5? do you need them all? could you stuff the pump in the 2 lower spots? lol, im sure some-1 will finger this out

04-30-2003, 03:40 PM	#19
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	What model pump is it? How large? I managed to cram mine in one of the (two) HDD bays. Admittedly, it sticks out by a good 6 inches, but it fits . My PSU array uses 5 * 5 1/4 bays, as well as the two 3 1/2 bays leaving me room for one CD-RW drive. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

04-30-2003, 04:27 PM	#20
Talik Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Portland Or Posts: 95	I have 5 5.25 bays, and I'm using three of them. I'm not sure the pump would fit in two slots unless I sat it on it's side, but then I'm not sure how the hoses would come out. I still have that Rio 3100 that you might remember me wishing I hadn't bought a while ago. I figure I'll eventually upgrade to a Eheim 1250, but I want to set up with this so I can compare the two temps give some better feedback to the forum on the flow vs pumpheat issue. I don't think the Eheim is much smaller than my rio. I found another case that I might buy, as it's only $56. http://servercase.com/cgi-bin/miva.c...egory_Code=ELS I think I can install the radiator into the left side door and the pump under the drive bays. Unless I can remove the floppy and hdd bays and fit the radiator under the 5.25 like I was planning with my current setup. Does anyone have this case that would like to give me a measurment of the space from just below the 5.25 bays to the bottom? __________________ Reality is nothing more than the delusions of the masses.

04-30-2003, 04:51 PM	#21
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	You might have a bit of clearance, above the top 5 1/4 bay, not that it's going to help any... Do you know which model case you have now? A pic would help. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

04-30-2003, 05:10 PM	#22
Talik Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Portland Or Posts: 95	I can't find my case on newegg, and I don't even remember what model it is, I bought it 7 years ago. I'll take some pictures when I get home. Too bad I had to split my computer. The water cooling would have fit very nicely into my server case with plenty of room to spare. PS. If you want any assistance drawing up your plan, bb, I'd be happy to help. pm me, email me, or aim me. __________________ Reality is nothing more than the delusions of the masses.

04-30-2003, 06:24 PM	#23
Arcturius Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin Posts: 294	This might be a better choice for a cheap, wide case. I personally don't like working with them, though. Then again, I think I would like the KA580, even less. :-/ What about adding casters or feet to your current case, and mounting the rad to the bottom, with fans on the inside? Then you could mount 25mm thick fans on the inside, and have them blowing at your bottom PCI card.

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