sans res? - Page 2

Talik · 04-30-2003, 08:26 PM

Well, you guys are right, and I'm wrong. Damn I hate having to say that.

But upon closer examination, and tweaking the hose coming off of my pump, I think I can put it where it is in that picture, put the rad right behind it... basically, go with the picture that Cyco-Dude drew up at the beginning of the thread. It'll be a tight squeeze as the hose will be putting pressure on the video card(pushing into the slot) but it should work.

Cyco-Dude · 04-30-2003, 09:20 PM

can you rotate the housing on your pump? are you planning to shroud the rad? what thickness fans will you be using? to make more room you could mount the rad to the chassis and stuff some 25mm fans between the front of the chassis and the bezel. maybe stand the rad off 1/2" or so and shroud it (so air wont just blow out of the gap). the fans should fit there; check to make sure though. obviously some bezel modding will be required so get that dremel ready

your chassis looks, as far as i can tell, exactly like my AOpen HX08. i dont know the model # of your case though.

Arcturius · 05-01-2003, 10:00 AM

Do my eyes deceive me, or do you have _at_least_ 1.5" of space right at the top of your case, completely unused? Could you mount your heatercore up there, and have a top exhaust? Or is there not enough room between the top two support bars (even with a little cutting) to place the HC between them?

Edit:

OR: hang it from those top rails, and mount fans in that gap above.

bigben2k · 05-01-2003, 10:22 AM

Let me take a guess here: you removed the HDD tray?

That top 5 1/4 thing you have looks like an HDD adapter for a 5 1/4 bay. Couldn't you put the HDD tray back?

If you don't have one, I've got a spare one from my Chieftec case, in which you can even slap an 80 mm fan.

mad mikee · 05-01-2003, 01:04 PM

My wife does often.
But I have run my airtrap/res at the bottom of my loop for all my 'experiments' and have always gotten rid of the bubbles within minutes? (Vs inline of hrs):shrug:

I have my A/R attached to the inlet of my pump to maximize flow aka phaestus. May have to give the case a jiggle after the system is full to dislodge any stubborn pockets in the rad but?

Does this have to do w/ having a loop that is less than 1.25 meters?

When I get to the CPU subsystem 'proof of concept' testing this weekend I hope, I'll post some pics in the concoction thread and hope it will help.

JSimmons · 05-01-2003, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mad mikee
But I have run my airtrap/res at the bottom of my loop for all my 'experiments' and have always gotten rid of the bubbles within minutes.

How is that possible? I always thought the airtrap needed to be the highest point in the system.

Cyco-Dude · 05-01-2003, 01:25 PM

nope

look @ this article if you arent convinced.

Talik · 05-02-2003, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cyco-Dude
can you rotate the housing on your pump? are you planning to shroud the rad? what thickness fans will you be using? to make more room you could mount the rad to the chassis and stuff some 25mm fans between the front of the chassis and the bezel. maybe stand the rad off 1/2" or so and shroud it (so air wont just blow out of the gap). the fans should fit there; check to make sure though. obviously some bezel modding will be required so get that dremel ready

your chassis looks, as far as i can tell, exactly like my AOpen HX08. i dont know the model # of your case though.

I am planning to shroud the rad. Not sure about the fan thickness as I havn't bought them yet. I was thinking of the delta double fans. They are a little thick, though. I think that mounting the fans between the front of the chassis is a good idea, though, with that shroud. I've got a high speed compressed air powered dremel, so I should be all set, there.

And yes, I think that I have the same chassis as your case. Different look, though, but everything's in the same place.

Quote:

Originally posted by Arcturius
Do my eyes deceive me, or do you have _at_least_ 1.5" of space right at the top of your case, completely unused? Could you mount your heatercore up there, and have a top exhaust? Or is there not enough room between the top two support bars (even with a little cutting) to place the HC between them?

Edit:

OR: hang it from those top rails, and mount fans in that gap above.

Yup, that's about 1.5" of space up there. Kind of annoying for a water cooling system, there's not much I can use that space for. I origionally had the same idea, but my heatercore is exactly 2" thick, and I want to shroud it, so I can't use that space for that. I also just know that if I had an oppening on top of my case, not only would It get covered up with various papers, and stuff, but I'm sure to spill something in there at some point.

Quote:

Originally posted by bigben2k
Let me take a guess here: you removed the HDD tray?

That top 5 1/4 thing you have looks like an HDD adapter for a 5 1/4 bay. Couldn't you put the HDD tray back?

If you don't have one, I've got a spare one from my Chieftec case, in which you can even slap an 80 mm fan.

Yup, no more hdd tray. I could put the hdd tray back, but whywould I want to? I have my hard drive in one of those hard drive cooler/temp monitors. I only need one hard drive in this system, so it seemed that the rack was just taking up unneeded space where I needed a heatercore to go. The case also used to have a hdd rack right above the psu, but that one has long since been lost.

Quote:

Originally posted by mad mikee
Does this have to do w/ having a loop that is less than 1.25 meters?

When I get to the CPU subsystem 'proof of concept' testing this weekend I hope, I'll post some pics in the concoction thread and hope it will help.

I'm not sure what the loop being less than 1.25 meters has to do with it, but it should be somewhere about there. I look forward to your upcoming pics.

I think I have decided on a way to go, though. My pump just barely fits under my video card if I turn it around so the exhaust tube fits to the front of the card and it inputs toward the front of the case. I'll run the input tube under the radiator(there's about an inch to spare), and use that elongated res/airtrap idea that I was thinking of putting in the back of my case. Just have it in the front. I was origionaly planning on having two 120mm fans pushing into the rad, and two in back pulling from the rad. But if I forgo the two pulling, and just mount them in my case somewhere, so my case has a negative pressure, wouldn't that cause the same effect without cramping my space near the rad and pump? I'd love to throw you guys together a sketch of myplan, but I'm at a internet cafe in Philly on business for the next week, so I can't even work on my concoction.

Talik · 05-07-2003, 10:56 PM

well, I'm back in town, and this is what I think I've decided on.

bigben2k · 05-07-2003, 11:02 PM

Nice, but can you straighten up the pump inlet?

Talik · 05-08-2003, 08:33 AM

hmm... not very easily, as you can see, I have to get that tube under the heatercore, there. I'd like, even, to be able to pull the heatercore off away from the wall a little more so I can properly shroud my fans coming in the front. The tube going from the resevoir to the pump is 1", which is a little bit bigger than most of my other tubing, which is 3/4 or 5/8 depending on the section. So I was hoping that that bend wouldn't affect the flow too much.. Do you think that's going to be a big problem?

It doesn't actually kink, or anything, I just have the tube cut and coming off of the pump at an angle. it's a pretty clean angle, not quite as steep as the picture makes it out to be.

I suppose I could get some extra room by removing the mounting pad from the bottom of the pump, that should let the pump sit about 3/4" lower. But that's gonna make mounting the pump a little bit of a pain. I'd probably have to screw directly into the plastic which would kill the resale value if I ever upgrade.

While we're on the subject of killing my pump, since this pump is designed to run submerged, it has no ventilation, would cutting air holes in it's case and venting it increase it's life? or create less heat for the water?

bigben2k · 05-08-2003, 08:46 AM

I think I might just be going a little paranoid on you, because we talked extensively about the pump inlet, a couple of months back.

If your description is accurate, I think you'll be OK.

As for the pump heat (the heat from the coils, not the heat from the pumping action), yes, venting it would help, but it won't affect the water temp in a measurable way. If I could do that mod, I'd probably jump at the chance to do it, but just make sure that you're not going to accidentally cut a coil wounding, otherwise the pump is toast. I would expect the winding to be pressed against the inside of the pump casing, so using a Dremel is definitely out. I'd highly recomend taking it apart first.

Arcturius · 05-08-2003, 09:32 AM

Does anyone know how the Rio is constructed; is it possible to vent?

My Beckett submersible was constructed with the motor coil 'suspended' within a plastic shell by epoxy that was poured in, so there was no way of cooling it--it is a solid, sealed mass.
Would the Rio be similar?

JSimmons · 05-08-2003, 09:38 AM

Probably, and the Via's are the same way.
No venting is possible short of just blowing air over it.

Cyco-Dude · 05-08-2003, 02:08 PM

would it be possible to mount the res internally above the psu? maybe use a 1" copper elbow on the pump intake...

also, could you use velcro to secure the pump? or maybe straps? like cut some slots on the bottom of the chassis and just strap the pump down. ya know?

Talik · 05-08-2003, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cyco-Dude
would it be possible to mount the res internally above the psu? maybe use a 1" copper elbow on the pump intake...

also, could you use velcro to secure the pump? or maybe straps? like cut some slots on the bottom of the chassis and just strap the pump down. ya know?

yea, I could put the pump over the psu, but the water is still going to have to travel a ways down to the pump, I may as well make the distance the water travels be part of the res.

As for the velcro, with my pump in that position it's sitting right over my motherboard, right under an expensive videocard, and right next to a bunch of other pci cards(read: lot of things nearby to break). I occasionally take my computer to lans, and I would be very nervous of it coming undone and crashing around if I velcroed it down. Even straps have a tendency to losen when jiggled around.

I'm thinking of epoxying four screws to the bottom of the pump so they are sticking out and drilling four little holes in the bottom of the case to match. Then I can just get some nuts and tighten the pump down to the case. That'll put about an 1/8" space(thickness of head of screw) in between the pump and the case for air to flow around the pump too.

JSimmons · 05-08-2003, 04:19 PM

Have you considered getting a YY Cube case?

saton472 · 05-09-2003, 10:21 AM

A cuple of posts ago i saw that you had some thin about Negativ Pressure.

Quote:

. But if I forgo the two pulling, and just mount them in my case somewhere, so my case has a negative pressure, wouldn't that cause the same effect without cramping my space near the rad and pump? I'd love to throw you guys together a sketch of myplan, but I'm at a internet cafe in Philly on business for the next week, so I can't even work on my concoction.

You dont want a Vacume (Negative pressure) in your case because it will cause dust to be drawn into the case ann Drives, causing a multitude of problems with dust on the optics of the DVD/ cd drives dust on the Head of floppy drives and your hard drives

Talik · 05-09-2003, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by saton472
You dont want a Vacume (Negative pressure) in your case because it will cause dust to be drawn into the case ann Drives, causing a multitude of problems with dust on the optics of the DVD/ cd drives dust on the Head of floppy drives and your hard drives

Aah, thanks saton, I hadn't thought of that, good thing you got to me. So it looks like the pulling fans have to actually be shrouded right to the radiator.

It seems like everyone and their mothers are getting the yy cube cases these days. If I'm gonna get a new case(which I'd rather save my money for ram or something else.) then I can think of better cases than the yy cube. something a little more compact, I don't really need all the room that the yy has to offer.

Cyco-Dude · 05-09-2003, 03:32 PM

im sure you can find a way to stuff all of your gear into your current case

be creative!

Talik · 05-09-2003, 04:25 PM

If by "be creative" you mean "use extradiamensional space to fit everything"... Then I'm on it.

Tweety · 05-09-2003, 05:14 PM

Looking at the pic of your case... Wouldn't it be possible to move the three drives to the topmost places and use the lower space just over the rad for a square res and air trap?

That would put it at the top of the waterloop and give you enough space for it to actually be a res if you wan't too... It should also make the routing of the tube to the pump inlet a bit easier...

04-30-2003, 08:26 PM	#26
Talik Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Portland Or Posts: 95	Well, you guys are right, and I'm wrong. Damn I hate having to say that. But upon closer examination, and tweaking the hose coming off of my pump, I think I can put it where it is in that picture, put the rad right behind it... basically, go with the picture that Cyco-Dude drew up at the beginning of the thread. It'll be a tight squeeze as the hose will be putting pressure on the video card(pushing into the slot) but it should work. __________________ Reality is nothing more than the delusions of the masses.

05-01-2003, 10:22 AM	#29
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Let me take a guess here: you removed the HDD tray? That top 5 1/4 thing you have looks like an HDD adapter for a 5 1/4 bay. Couldn't you put the HDD tray back? If you don't have one, I've got a spare one from my Chieftec case, in which you can even slap an 80 mm fan. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

05-01-2003, 01:04 PM	#30
mad mikee Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: US of A!!!! Posts: 146	Call me silly My wife does often. But I have run my airtrap/res at the bottom of my loop for all my 'experiments' and have always gotten rid of the bubbles within minutes? (Vs inline of hrs):shrug: I have my A/R attached to the inlet of my pump to maximize flow aka phaestus. May have to give the case a jiggle after the system is full to dislodge any stubborn pockets in the rad but? Does this have to do w/ having a loop that is less than 1.25 meters? When I get to the CPU subsystem 'proof of concept' testing this weekend I hope, I'll post some pics in the concoction thread and hope it will help. __________________ His PCV2000 DFI ULTRA D (SLI Modded just because) 4200 x2 @ ~ 10 x 260 /1.49 Vcore , G5 + PA160 + 150mm Papst@5V + Maze 4 GPU + mcp350. Temp 36-37(load-2 x D20L) 2x1GB Ballistix PC4000, x800xl 256m, 74G rap + 160G Hitachi SATA , 21" mit/nec 1920x1440 Crt + 19 Neovo F-419 1280x1024 LCD, OCZ Powerstream 600 Hers: (my beloved who lets me do all this) LianLi PCV1000, SD3700 @ 9x300, 1GB GBLA, 250+ 120 SATA, X700pro, 19" Neovo F-419 LCD, another OCZ 600

05-07-2003, 11:02 PM	#35
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Nice, but can you straighten up the pump inlet? __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

05-08-2003, 08:33 AM	#36
Talik Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Portland Or Posts: 95	hmm... not very easily, as you can see, I have to get that tube under the heatercore, there. I'd like, even, to be able to pull the heatercore off away from the wall a little more so I can properly shroud my fans coming in the front. The tube going from the resevoir to the pump is 1", which is a little bit bigger than most of my other tubing, which is 3/4 or 5/8 depending on the section. So I was hoping that that bend wouldn't affect the flow too much.. Do you think that's going to be a big problem? It doesn't actually kink, or anything, I just have the tube cut and coming off of the pump at an angle. it's a pretty clean angle, not quite as steep as the picture makes it out to be. I suppose I could get some extra room by removing the mounting pad from the bottom of the pump, that should let the pump sit about 3/4" lower. But that's gonna make mounting the pump a little bit of a pain. I'd probably have to screw directly into the plastic which would kill the resale value if I ever upgrade. While we're on the subject of killing my pump, since this pump is designed to run submerged, it has no ventilation, would cutting air holes in it's case and venting it increase it's life? or create less heat for the water? __________________ Reality is nothing more than the delusions of the masses.

04-30-2003, 09:20 PM	#27
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	can you rotate the housing on your pump? are you planning to shroud the rad? what thickness fans will you be using? to make more room you could mount the rad to the chassis and stuff some 25mm fans between the front of the chassis and the bezel. maybe stand the rad off 1/2" or so and shroud it (so air wont just blow out of the gap). the fans should fit there; check to make sure though. obviously some bezel modding will be required so get that dremel ready your chassis looks, as far as i can tell, exactly like my AOpen HX08. i dont know the model # of your case though.

05-01-2003, 10:00 AM	#28
Arcturius Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin Posts: 294	Do my eyes deceive me, or do you have _at_least_ 1.5" of space right at the top of your case, completely unused? Could you mount your heatercore up there, and have a top exhaust? Or is there not enough room between the top two support bars (even with a little cutting) to place the HC between them? Edit: OR: hang it from those top rails, and mount fans in that gap above.

05-01-2003, 01:25 PM	#32
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	nope look @ this article if you arent convinced.

05-08-2003, 08:46 AM	#37
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	I think I might just be going a little paranoid on you, because we talked extensively about the pump inlet, a couple of months back. If your description is accurate, I think you'll be OK. As for the pump heat (the heat from the coils, not the heat from the pumping action), yes, venting it would help, but it won't affect the water temp in a measurable way. If I could do that mod, I'd probably jump at the chance to do it, but just make sure that you're not going to accidentally cut a coil wounding, otherwise the pump is toast. I would expect the winding to be pressed against the inside of the pump casing, so using a Dremel is definitely out. I'd highly recomend taking it apart first. __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

05-08-2003, 09:32 AM	#38
Arcturius Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin Posts: 294	Does anyone know how the Rio is constructed; is it possible to vent? My Beckett submersible was constructed with the motor coil 'suspended' within a plastic shell by epoxy that was poured in, so there was no way of cooling it--it is a solid, sealed mass. Would the Rio be similar?

05-08-2003, 09:38 AM	#39
JSimmons Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 4-sided room with an exit going east, and an exit going south Posts: 392	Probably, and the Via's are the same way. No venting is possible short of just blowing air over it.

05-08-2003, 02:08 PM	#40
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	would it be possible to mount the res internally above the psu? maybe use a 1" copper elbow on the pump intake... also, could you use velcro to secure the pump? or maybe straps? like cut some slots on the bottom of the chassis and just strap the pump down. ya know?

05-08-2003, 04:19 PM	#42
JSimmons Cooling Savant Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 4-sided room with an exit going east, and an exit going south Posts: 392	Have you considered getting a YY Cube case?

05-09-2003, 03:32 PM	#45
Cyco-Dude Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 836	im sure you can find a way to stuff all of your gear into your current case be creative!

05-09-2003, 04:25 PM	#46
Talik Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Portland Or Posts: 95	If by "be creative" you mean "use extradiamensional space to fit everything"... Then I'm on it. __________________ Reality is nothing more than the delusions of the masses.

05-09-2003, 05:14 PM	#47
Tweety Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sweden Posts: 11	throwing another idea in the mix... Looking at the pic of your case... Wouldn't it be possible to move the three drives to the topmost places and use the lower space just over the rad for a square res and air trap? That would put it at the top of the waterloop and give you enough space for it to actually be a res if you wan't too... It should also make the routing of the tube to the pump inlet a bit easier...

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