My Maze4 Review

airspirit · 07-10-2003, 04:37 PM

I just received one in the mail courtesy of cooltechnica.com and my first impression is "wtf?" The barbs are polypropalene (very good), the top is lexan (not good, but eh ... ), and the bottom is about 3/8" of copper. The channels inside look to be maybe 3/16" deep and pretty wide. From my initial look at the block, it appears that only around 25% of the coolant flow will pass over the die area with the rest flowing around ... and if this is the case, the thin base won't allow the heat to transfer laterally very well. I am a bit apprehensive, but I'm going to swap it in place of my Maze3 tonight and compare the results for you guys. While I can see how the WW works so well, this looks like a flawed imitation of a similar concept, and I'm a bit leery of the design.

Enough rambling ... I'll hopefully have results for you tonight, if I can manage to swap blocks without too many problems.

If it works good, I'll be swapping the Maze3 onto my center PC on the rack and getting rid of the Black edge on it ....

jaydee · 07-10-2003, 05:15 PM

I got a maze 4 today strait from DD. I got chrome barbs on mine but I ordered it that way. The base is actually 1/4", the channels widths look to be 1/8" the best I can tell, the depth look like 1/8" aswell. Also it is sandblasted. The top is 3/8" Lexan or Acrylic laser cut. Very little water flows over the core but that isn't to big a deal being there is a 1/8" of base to spread the heat out. I think it will work pretty good. Not exeptional, but it should be better than the Maze 3.

airspirit · 07-10-2003, 05:42 PM

If you want to post your observations here as well that would be great. My "test bench" revolves around comparisons dealing with diodes, room thermometers, and relative estimates ... in a system such as mine quantitative measurement will be a biznatch. What I can do, however, is watch other machines for lowered temps (translated into higher flow resistance) and higher/lower temps on the affected machine. BillA would roll his eyes in disgust at this, hehe.

winewood · 07-10-2003, 05:55 PM

Are you guys messing with this just to review it?
Did you pay for it, or just send one for comments.

If you did buy it, just wondering why.

jaydee · 07-10-2003, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by winewood
Are you guys messing with this just to review it?
Did you pay for it, or just send one for comments.

If you did buy it, just wondering why.

I paid for mine. I needed a commercial block to use as a guage against my own blocks. The DD Maze 4 is the only one I could get a hold of in 3 days after I ordered it. Props to DD for that!

I will post some comments and pictures and what not here. My testing methods suck to BTW.

I will do the best I can with what I got. Will be hooking it up to my Abit KD7.

Cathar · 07-10-2003, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaydee116
The top is 3/8" Lexan or Acrylic laser cut.

It'd be Lucite (acrylic-based) and laser cut.

Lexan is poly-carbonate and something which is quite difficult to cut with a laser.

jaydee · 07-10-2003, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cathar
It'd be Lucite (acrylic-based) and laser cut.

Lexan is poly-carbonate and something which is quite difficult to cut with a laser.

The laser I have will cut 1/4" lexan for sure as I have done it, but never tried over 1/4". It cuts 3/8" acrylic fairly easily. Probably could do 1/2" acrylic at max settings. It is only a 80watt CO2 laser. They got 500+watt CO2's out now aswell that will cut 3" thick acrylic and am sure it will easily handle 3/8" lexan. Can't cut metal with a CO2 laser though. There is a outfit a few hundred miles from here that has a laser they use to cut 3/8" steel plate with to make after market truck bumbers! Sure would like one of those lasers.... I think it is called a YIB laser. It isn't CO2 based. One powerful bitch. It is like 3,000watts.

Skeptic · 07-10-2003, 10:22 PM

Hi. First time reader, and poster. This is my first dabble at watercooling as well, but I have always overclocked using TEC's and air-cooling. Not a real efficient combo, but it worked for me at the time. Now I need something better.

I bought a maze 4 kit from DD and it arrived this morning. My question is what should I use for coolant? Distilled water +Water Wetter? Distilled plus anti-freeze?

Any ideas?

I will also post my results after I get this thing installed.

jaydee · 07-10-2003, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeptic
Hi. First time reader, and poster. This is my first dabble at watercooling as well, but I have always overclocked using TEC's and air-cooling. Not a real efficient combo, but it worked for me at the time. Now I need something better.

I bought a maze 4 kit from DD and it arrived this morning. My question is what should I use for coolant? Distilled water +Water Wetter? Distilled plus anti-freeze?

Any ideas?

I will also post my results after I get this thing installed.

Distilled water and watter wetter would be my choice of the two. Antifreeze is fine but nasty stuff.

I just hooked mine up to my Abit KD7 and the Thrustmaster 500GPH pump. Got it running D.F.. Water definatly has no problems going through all the channels. Flow is good aswell. I dislike the mounting hardware (got the metal mounting as opposed to the nylon) and one of the barbs has a smaller ID than the other. :shrug: Got pictures of everthing and will get them posted after I run it through its loops...

Were in WA are you at?

nikhsub1 · 07-10-2003, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeptic
Hi. First time reader, and poster. This is my first dabble at watercooling as well, but I have always overclocked using TEC's and air-cooling. Not a real efficient combo, but it worked for me at the time. Now I need something better.

I bought a maze 4 kit from DD and it arrived this morning. My question is what should I use for coolant? Distilled water +Water Wetter? Distilled plus anti-freeze?

Any ideas?

I will also post my results after I get this thing installed.

Provided you are using like metals, ie., not mixing al. and copper, you will be fine with distilled and a bit of water wetter, purple ice, and my favorite, Hy-per Lube. A small amount of anti-freeze is not necessary but not a bad idea, maybe 3-5%.

airspirit · 07-11-2003, 09:50 AM

So far I have no good news. The temps in the two other systems went down 1C, probably due to the added resistance in the third with the M4, and that system went up in idle from 43C (2500+@2650,1.85V) to 45C and peak from 48C to 51C. I am not amused. I resinstalled the block three times and this is the best of the results. I'll give it a day or so for the AS to settle, and I'll probably go back to the Maze3.

It may just be that my system is unique, but this is not like it is a small temp difference from the other block ... this is dramatically worse. I am not impressed so far.

winewood · 07-11-2003, 01:22 PM

I cant fathom why people buy blocks with no reviews or ballpark figures on them. Course if this means getting numbers when there were none.. its good. Please publish these numbers in a review and get the word out.

I guess I wonder all the more since I am broke and cant waste money like I wish I could.

jaydee · 07-11-2003, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by winewood
I cant fathom why people buy blocks with no reviews or ballpark figures on them. Course if this means getting numbers when there were none.. its good. Please publish these numbers in a review and get the word out.

I guess I wonder all the more since I am broke and cant waste money like I wish I could.

I will be testing it next week once I get my Thermocoupler modded into my Abit KD7. Going to test it against my own blocks then probably sell it.

Skeptic · 07-11-2003, 02:58 PM

Jay - Bremerton, Washington.

I read a review posted about the Maze 4/3 comparison here.

The comparison seemed to make a dramatic difference, so for my 1st time out, decided to go with it. Well, it arrived yesterday but i didn't pull it all out of the case until this morning and guess what i see?

A Maze 3 AMD block. Needless to say, I am not impressed. However, I just got off the phone with DD and they are sending me the Maze 4 now. I get to keep both, so I will do my own comparison here and share with you guys.

I am going with Distilled water and a small amount of Hyperlube and Anti-freeze mix with a UV dye added. Will let you know soon as the Maze 4 gets here, but will probably play with the Maze 3 now and post those results.

Thanks guys!

pakman · 07-11-2003, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by airspirit
So far I have no good news. The temps in the two other systems went down 1C, probably due to the added resistance in the third with the M4, and that system went up in idle from 43C (2500+@2650,1.85V) to 45C and peak from 48C to 51C. I am not amused. I resinstalled the block three times and this is the best of the results. I'll give it a day or so for the AS to settle, and I'll probably go back to the Maze3.

It may just be that my system is unique, but this is not like it is a small temp difference from the other block ... this is dramatically worse. I am not impressed so far.

Can you give details on the 3 systems you tested the M4 on, especially the 3rd where temps went up? What other blocks are on the system/rad/pump etc... thanks. I am guessing the M4 should have lower flow resistance than the M3 just by appearance...

winewood · 07-11-2003, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Jay - Bremerton, Washington.

I read a review posted about the Maze 4/3 comparison here.

The comparison seemed to make a dramatic difference, so for my 1st time out, decided to go with it. Well, it arrived yesterday but i didn't pull it all out of the case until this morning and guess what i see?

Ok.. I smell something "off".
I have seen 2-3 average person reviews and they show no benifit or small non-measurable benifit. Why is this guys numbers off so much?

pakman · 07-11-2003, 04:00 PM

in a post over at AMDforums, cathar pointed out that the review that claimed a 4deg. improvement over the maze3 was extremely flawed. The reviewer (according to the photo's in his review) had the maze3 installed with the water flowing in from the side barb and out from the center barb...!!!

pakman · 07-11-2003, 04:10 PM

Here's the link to the amdforums thread

if you look at the pics in that review http://www.elite-tech.org/modules.p...order=0&thold=0
you'll notice that barb orientation on the bottom photo relative to the mobo. then look at the test rig photo and you'll see that the water is flowing from the pump to the rad to the OUTSIDE barb on the maze3.

Nice catch Cathar!

Solarian League · 07-11-2003, 04:33 PM

a question about weight today i just got my maze 4 GPU and it seems little heavy so i'm worried about weight.

jaydee · 07-11-2003, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Solarian League
a question about weight today i just got my maze 4 GPU and it seems little heavy so i'm worried about weight.

Weight is not an issue. It is one of the lightest commercial blocks on the market.

nikhsub1 · 07-11-2003, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Solarian League
a question about weight today i just got my maze 4 GPU and it seems little heavy so i'm worried about weight.

I guess you never felt an ORIGINAL spiral?

Pritorian · 07-11-2003, 07:43 PM

Quote:

opposed to the nylon) and one of the barbs has a smaller ID than the other. :shrug: Got pictures of everthing and will get them posted after I run it through its loops...

Were in WA are you at? [/b]

I would think it´s for "stopping the flow from going straight thru the block, and instead "push" the water too the outer channel inn the block.

Kinda hard too explain for me.. hehe..

Big ID water inn Small ID water out.

Dón´t know if you got any wiser now...

-P-

jaydee · 07-11-2003, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pritorian
I would think it´s for "stopping the flow from going straight thru the block, and instead "push" the water too the outer channel inn the block.

Kinda hard too explain for me.. hehe..

Big ID water inn Small ID water out.

Dón´t know if you got any wiser now...

-P-

I am not giving them that much credit. The barbs are just different brands.

JokerCPoC · 07-12-2003, 12:35 AM

Can't wait to see the pics, But I'm staying away from any metal that isn't copper, Which means polypropylene, pvc, etc. is just fine with Me. No battery effect here. My pump will look like this one, But with Plastic fittings instead of Brass.

Solarian League · 07-12-2003, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nikhsub1
I guess you never felt an ORIGINAL spiral?

hey hey its my first waterblock that i have EVER held in my hand heh

07-10-2003, 04:37 PM	#1
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	My Maze4 Review I just received one in the mail courtesy of cooltechnica.com and my first impression is "wtf?" The barbs are polypropalene (very good), the top is lexan (not good, but eh ... ), and the bottom is about 3/8" of copper. The channels inside look to be maybe 3/16" deep and pretty wide. From my initial look at the block, it appears that only around 25% of the coolant flow will pass over the die area with the rest flowing around ... and if this is the case, the thin base won't allow the heat to transfer laterally very well. I am a bit apprehensive, but I'm going to swap it in place of my Maze3 tonight and compare the results for you guys. While I can see how the WW works so well, this looks like a flawed imitation of a similar concept, and I'm a bit leery of the design. Enough rambling ... I'll hopefully have results for you tonight, if I can manage to swap blocks without too many problems. If it works good, I'll be swapping the Maze3 onto my center PC on the rack and getting rid of the Black edge on it .... __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

07-10-2003, 05:42 PM	#3
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	If you want to post your observations here as well that would be great. My "test bench" revolves around comparisons dealing with diodes, room thermometers, and relative estimates ... in a system such as mine quantitative measurement will be a biznatch. What I can do, however, is watch other machines for lowered temps (translated into higher flow resistance) and higher/lower temps on the affected machine. BillA would roll his eyes in disgust at this, hehe. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

07-10-2003, 05:55 PM	#4
winewood Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: in my chair Posts: 574	Are you guys messing with this just to review it? Did you pay for it, or just send one for comments. If you did buy it, just wondering why. __________________ -winewood-

07-11-2003, 09:50 AM	#11
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	So far I have no good news. The temps in the two other systems went down 1C, probably due to the added resistance in the third with the M4, and that system went up in idle from 43C (2500+@2650,1.85V) to 45C and peak from 48C to 51C. I am not amused. I resinstalled the block three times and this is the best of the results. I'll give it a day or so for the AS to settle, and I'll probably go back to the Maze3. It may just be that my system is unique, but this is not like it is a small temp difference from the other block ... this is dramatically worse. I am not impressed so far. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

07-11-2003, 01:22 PM	#12
winewood Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: in my chair Posts: 574	I cant fathom why people buy blocks with no reviews or ballpark figures on them. Course if this means getting numbers when there were none.. its good. Please publish these numbers in a review and get the word out. I guess I wonder all the more since I am broke and cant waste money like I wish I could. __________________ -winewood-

07-10-2003, 05:15 PM	#2
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	I got a maze 4 today strait from DD. I got chrome barbs on mine but I ordered it that way. The base is actually 1/4", the channels widths look to be 1/8" the best I can tell, the depth look like 1/8" aswell. Also it is sandblasted. The top is 3/8" Lexan or Acrylic laser cut. Very little water flows over the core but that isn't to big a deal being there is a 1/8" of base to spread the heat out. I think it will work pretty good. Not exeptional, but it should be better than the Maze 3.

07-10-2003, 10:22 PM	#8
Skeptic Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Washington Posts: 48	Hi. First time reader, and poster. This is my first dabble at watercooling as well, but I have always overclocked using TEC's and air-cooling. Not a real efficient combo, but it worked for me at the time. Now I need something better. I bought a maze 4 kit from DD and it arrived this morning. My question is what should I use for coolant? Distilled water +Water Wetter? Distilled plus anti-freeze? Any ideas? I will also post my results after I get this thing installed.

07-11-2003, 02:58 PM	#14
Skeptic Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Washington Posts: 48	Jay - Bremerton, Washington. I read a review posted about the Maze 4/3 comparison here. The comparison seemed to make a dramatic difference, so for my 1st time out, decided to go with it. Well, it arrived yesterday but i didn't pull it all out of the case until this morning and guess what i see? A Maze 3 AMD block. Needless to say, I am not impressed. However, I just got off the phone with DD and they are sending me the Maze 4 now. I get to keep both, so I will do my own comparison here and share with you guys. I am going with Distilled water and a small amount of Hyperlube and Anti-freeze mix with a UV dye added. Will let you know soon as the Maze 4 gets here, but will probably play with the Maze 3 now and post those results. Thanks guys!

07-11-2003, 04:00 PM	#17
pakman Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: WA State Posts: 76	in a post over at AMDforums, cathar pointed out that the review that claimed a 4deg. improvement over the maze3 was extremely flawed. The reviewer (according to the photo's in his review) had the maze3 installed with the water flowing in from the side barb and out from the center barb...!!!

07-11-2003, 04:10 PM	#18
pakman Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: WA State Posts: 76	Here's the link to the amdforums thread if you look at the pics in that review http://www.elite-tech.org/modules.p...order=0&thold=0 you'll notice that barb orientation on the bottom photo relative to the mobo. then look at the test rig photo and you'll see that the water is flowing from the pump to the rad to the OUTSIDE barb on the maze3. Nice catch Cathar!

07-11-2003, 04:33 PM	#19
Solarian League Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Solarian League Posts: 66	a question about weight today i just got my maze 4 GPU and it seems little heavy so i'm worried about weight.

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