C-Systems 12 VDC Pump review... - Page 6

Fanatik · 07-31-2004, 01:55 AM

Thanx for the reply hotseat but i cant cancel my order because i have all the components for my watercooling system (which cost me over $200 usd) and this pump is the only one that will fit in my case because i have an sff ecube. Maybe by next week ill receive it.

-EVRE- · 07-31-2004, 03:30 AM

Quote:

As too price, sorry will not jump up, we believe in providing a good product at a good price indepenant of market demand.

Nuts?
Maybe, but I sleep very well at night.

Thanks Dan

Looking forward to getting my pumps, aparently what has been holding up my order with d-tek is my dual floppy bay res. I pre-ordered my pumps (not x2 package) the first day the pumps when on pre-order(The link from this forum i believe) I hope they havent sold my two pumps! and have to wait longer for the new shipment to arrive!

I have a project log over at http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=61449

thebigNil · 07-31-2004, 03:56 AM

I ordered a pump from D-Tek, and got it on the 16th or so. I have since RMA'd it because it died for a reason unknown to me. Luckily I was testing it at the time. With the experience I got with limited run time I will say that it is very quiet compared to my danner pump (duh). I had taken pictures but stupidly erased them from my camera when I did a mass erase, thinking that nothing of interest had been taken.

Anyway I guess that this isn't a organized post but you now know that somebody had received a pump from D-Tek.

BillA · 07-31-2004, 08:58 AM

50,000 mtbf ??
gone ?

thebigNil · 07-31-2004, 07:23 PM

I've had mobo's, vid cards, and hdd's go out on me before, I know that their can be lemons made and sold so I figure as long as they help me by replacing it I wont be upset. Also with the job I work I hear about a lot of electronics going down the drain for no apparent reason. I'll accept it as a fact of life that not everything coming off a assembly line is perfict so if someone is willing to help me replace my broken toys then no harm done.

melpheos · 08-03-2004, 07:43 AM

i have made a grouped command over c-systems directly for 250 pumps (more or less) and have not received anything yet

psychofunk · 08-03-2004, 06:35 PM

This kind of feels like one of AMD's paper releases :shrug:

dima y · 08-05-2004, 03:14 PM

I told Dtek to ship everything but the brakets because they were short on those, REALLY quick shipping, 1 days to me. Anyways I though people might appriciate some pictures:

Alen wrench in there for size comparison.

dariusz · 08-09-2004, 03:36 AM

hello everyone,

i hope this little beauties will be someday avaible in "old" europe , cause the S&H charges from USA to europe almost equals one of them...

melpheos · 08-10-2004, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dariusz

hello everyone,

i hope this little beauties will be someday avaible in "old" europe , cause the S&H charges from USA to europe almost equals one of them...

hi Dariusz, finally you are integrated in the grouped command

saperboy · 08-12-2004, 04:39 AM

has anyone gotten this black beauties from D-Tek since they last shipped the first batch?

me still waiting

BTW, anyone gotten any reply from DTEK recently, coz I've been emailing them for past 3weeks and no word what so ever :shrug:

Hotseat · 08-13-2004, 07:24 AM

Big Nil, sounds like you may have a bad power supply, if components are going that offend.

But our pump motor is fairly tough when it come to voltage change, did you check the fan port itself ?

My best guess, likely you have a bad connector on the pump, only reason it would just "stop".

Anyhow, RMA it, we will get it back and see whats up. So far running well under 1% rma

BTW Guys, C-Systems and AVT has had no phones / internet till this morning.
What a mess, communications company blames phone company, phone company blame communications company.

Two days ago communications changes the new buildings router / switch / and BPX, the whole system to prove there point !

Yesterday Bell finally admits it's there problem, and this morning everything works !

Hotseat · 08-13-2004, 08:45 AM

Bill,
Someone just emailed me your comments here, guess I missed it earlier.

I'm not sure where your going with this, but please lets stop it now.

The fact is, as any engineer knows, anything built by man will have the potential to fail.

The issue is not that a company will have product that fails, the issue is what a company does about it.

There are currently three basic methods of handling defects.

1. Put a product on the market knowing it will fail, and count on the fact a small number of customers will return said unit if the price is low enough. Without offense, this is often used by oversea's "fly by night" companys.

2. Ignore low returns number (high as 15%) and do buisness factoring in said returns.

3. Do an analysis on return product, change manufacturing methods, suppliers, or design to reduce your returns to a low percentage.

We have and always will use the third method, as long as I am in charge

So far we have had VERY few returns, and to date the issues have all been assembly defects, with the exception of some "rusty" bolts from a bad supplier.

To resolve that issue, we changed to stainless steel months ago.

I hope this answers some of your concerns

Dan
C-Systems

Tempus · 08-13-2004, 08:48 AM

Great! No just get a few more over to D-tek so I can buy one and try it for myself.

BillA · 08-13-2004, 09:32 AM

Dan
there was/is no intent to denigrate your product, I too am awaiting delivery - no ?
(I understand moving, we will have to do so shortly as well.)

rather I was using the (few that I'm aware of) reported problems to illustrate the difficulties of actually achieving a 50,000 hr MTBF

yes, I'm aware of the various approaches to 'dealing' with defectives, but a simple fact remains; a 50,000 hr component cannot incur many failures w/o jeopardizing that value

some actual #s ?
- with the MCP300 we had ~90% failure rate (9yr old stock shipped from mfgr !) for the first shipment - we are still replacing those pumps
later this 'improved' to ~5%, absolutely unacceptable
- in response to these problems I sourced the MCP600 with which we got snake-bit again, a unanticipated condition of use caused ~20% failures (now abated); the re-design eliminated the pump head problems and we see ~0.5% near term failures (electrical); acceptable from a commercial perspective, but not if in pursuit of a 50,000 hr MTBF
- with the Laing pumps it is a bit early in the cycle but we've seen 0 problems to date, given the pump's history, construction, and the mfgr I do not expect problems of any nature, time will tell

now it is the natural tendency to 'explain away' individual component problems as 'being caused by X', but the failure did still occur and must be considered in the overall time-to-failure considerations

for sure nothing made is perfect, but a 50,000 hr MTBF component cannot bear even a few near term failures

Hotseat · 08-13-2004, 10:09 AM

Sounds good Bill, I think the person that emailed me had alot of negative feelings, which rubbed off on me.

You should note, that often MBTF is based on "as designed" units, ie test units that where examined for basic defects. Is this fair, not sure, because it leads to various claims. Also MBTF is not effected by install errors.

Personally, as is your practice, we analysis everything ourselves

Man 90%, do I feel for you....BEEN THERE myself with new suppliers, makes everyone look bad

Tempus...... thanks to comments on this board WE NO LONGER MAKE THE CSP-750 !!!!

We now make the CSP-750 Mark II
www.c-systems.ca

threeputt · 08-13-2004, 10:35 AM

WHAT? You don't make these any more??? Oh wait...Mark II... Very funny... So, what are the details of the improvement? I see the new case, but how did you improve frequency generation and improve flow? Thanks.

Oh, and when will Dtek get the new version?

Tempus · 08-13-2004, 12:01 PM

That was good Dan. Had me worried for a second.

Just let me know when I can finally get one (ie. start posting when a shipment goes to D-tek so I know to bug them.)

Curious, who did your independent testing to verify the 50k hr MTBF?

Hotseat · 08-13-2004, 12:06 PM

Frequency generation means you can monitor the pump, just as you would a systems fan, via your BIOS software.

Flow is increased via a wider impeller and some small seal / motor changes.

New case offers improved internal temps, un-noticeable from outside.

Motor compartment is now not a permit seal, uses a gasket or o-ring which allows you to change the direction of the logo if you want.

Also in the future we will offer a "re-build" kit if needed, which the new case allows us to produce / offer to you cheaply (less then 12$ USD)

Also a couple of others details, I don't want to openly discuss right now

** The 50,000 MTBF is for motor only Tempus, and clearly states so on our pages.
The claim comes from our motor sub-contractor, and it has been our experience that there claim is valid.

psychofunk · 08-13-2004, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotseat

Frequency generation means you can monitor the pump, just as you would a systems fan, via your BIOS software.

Flow is increased via a wider impeller and some small seal / motor changes.

New case offers improved internal temps, un-noticeable from outside.

Motor compartment is now not a permit seal, uses a gasket or o-ring which allows you to change the direction of the logo if you want.

Also in the future we will offer a "re-build" kit if needed, which the new case allows us to produce / offer to you cheaply (less then 12$ USD)

Also a couple of others details, I don't want to openly discuss right now

** The 50,000 MTBF is for motor only Tempus, and clearly states so on our pages.
The claim comes from our motor sub-contractor, and it has been our experience that there claim is valid.

Yeah but when will we get them? AHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I've been waiting months now, and I ready to jump ship. And I am sure I am not alone.

Hotseat · 08-13-2004, 02:07 PM

^Sorry I don't personally know when. We don't handle what pumps go where, only OEM orders now.

I know there was some large orders that went out monday and tuesday, and several large OEM orders going out in a week or two as well.

You will likely find our pumps somewhere soon, just don't be surprized if it doesn't say "c-systems" on it

Like I said, move didn't help, and the move did not go well.
I hope Bill and Swiftech has a better go of it.

Stang_Man · 08-13-2004, 05:42 PM

Dan, i bought a CSP-X2 from Bigfoot computers, and am currently awaiting shipment.

Do you know their stock on them and what i'll be getting?

Will they have the D-Tek logo on them, or C-Systems?

Hotseat · 08-14-2004, 06:58 AM

^Just looked, Bigfoot did not request custom engraving, so has "C-systems" on them.

Sorry, I can not openly discuss when or any other details of there order.

Please understand that is up to the vendor to disclose....not our place to do so.

Stang_Man · 08-15-2004, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotseat

^Just looked, Bigfoot did not request custom engraving, so has "C-systems" on them.

Sorry, I can not openly discuss when or any other details of there order.

Please understand that is up to the vendor to disclose....not our place to do so.

thanks for your reply. i just got an email today saying they're out of stock

i'm gonna wait for Dtek to get the new revisions in stock. so pissed now because my college computer to be ready to be shipped from CT to AZ won't be finished by August 25th

Hotseat · 08-17-2004, 03:48 PM

^ Big foots order is the Mark II units, think he will update his pages soon if he hasn't already.

08-09-2004, 03:36 AM	#134
dariusz Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: france Posts: 7	hello everyone, i hope this little beauties will be someday avaible in "old" europe , cause the S&H charges from USA to europe almost equals one of them... Last edited by dariusz; 08-10-2004 at 01:41 AM.

08-13-2004, 08:48 AM	#139
Tempus Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 456	Great! No just get a few more over to D-tek so I can buy one and try it for myself. __________________ Thou art God.

08-13-2004, 10:09 AM	#141
Hotseat Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 62	Sounds good Bill, I think the person that emailed me had alot of negative feelings, which rubbed off on me. You should note, that often MBTF is based on "as designed" units, ie test units that where examined for basic defects. Is this fair, not sure, because it leads to various claims. Also MBTF is not effected by install errors. Personally, as is your practice, we analysis everything ourselves Man 90%, do I feel for you....BEEN THERE myself with new suppliers, makes everyone look bad Tempus...... thanks to comments on this board WE NO LONGER MAKE THE CSP-750 !!!! We now make the CSP-750 Mark II www.c-systems.ca Last edited by Hotseat; 08-13-2004 at 10:16 AM.

08-13-2004, 10:35 AM	#142
threeputt Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA Posts: 78	WHAT? You don't make these any more??? Oh wait...Mark II... Very funny... So, what are the details of the improvement? I see the new case, but how did you improve frequency generation and improve flow? Thanks. Oh, and when will Dtek get the new version? __________________ "If you can't spot the sucker in your first half-hour at the table, you ARE the sucker."

08-13-2004, 12:01 PM	#143
Tempus Cooling Savant Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 456	That was good Dan. Had me worried for a second. Just let me know when I can finally get one (ie. start posting when a shipment goes to D-tek so I know to bug them.) Curious, who did your independent testing to verify the 50k hr MTBF? __________________ Thou art God.

07-31-2004, 01:55 AM	#126
Fanatik Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: austin Posts: 4	Thanx for the reply hotseat but i cant cancel my order because i have all the components for my watercooling system (which cost me over $200 usd) and this pump is the only one that will fit in my case because i have an sff ecube. Maybe by next week ill receive it.

07-31-2004, 03:56 AM	#128
thebigNil Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: here Posts: 26	I ordered a pump from D-Tek, and got it on the 16th or so. I have since RMA'd it because it died for a reason unknown to me. Luckily I was testing it at the time. With the experience I got with limited run time I will say that it is very quiet compared to my danner pump (duh). I had taken pictures but stupidly erased them from my camera when I did a mass erase, thinking that nothing of interest had been taken. Anyway I guess that this isn't a organized post but you now know that somebody had received a pump from D-Tek.

07-31-2004, 08:58 AM	#129
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	50,000 mtbf ?? gone ?

07-31-2004, 07:23 PM	#130
thebigNil Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: here Posts: 26	I've had mobo's, vid cards, and hdd's go out on me before, I know that their can be lemons made and sold so I figure as long as they help me by replacing it I wont be upset. Also with the job I work I hear about a lot of electronics going down the drain for no apparent reason. I'll accept it as a fact of life that not everything coming off a assembly line is perfict so if someone is willing to help me replace my broken toys then no harm done.

08-03-2004, 07:43 AM	#131
melpheos Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: france Posts: 16	i have made a grouped command over c-systems directly for 250 pumps (more or less) and have not received anything yet

08-03-2004, 06:35 PM	#132
psychofunk Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 365	This kind of feels like one of AMD's paper releases :shrug:

08-05-2004, 03:14 PM	#133
dima y Cooling Savant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: palo alto, CA Posts: 164	I told Dtek to ship everything but the brakets because they were short on those, REALLY quick shipping, 1 days to me. Anyways I though people might appriciate some pictures: Alen wrench in there for size comparison.

08-12-2004, 04:39 AM	#136
saperboy Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 29	has anyone gotten this black beauties from D-Tek since they last shipped the first batch? me still waiting BTW, anyone gotten any reply from DTEK recently, coz I've been emailing them for past 3weeks and no word what so ever :shrug:

08-13-2004, 07:24 AM	#137
Hotseat Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 62	Big Nil, sounds like you may have a bad power supply, if components are going that offend. But our pump motor is fairly tough when it come to voltage change, did you check the fan port itself ? My best guess, likely you have a bad connector on the pump, only reason it would just "stop". Anyhow, RMA it, we will get it back and see whats up. So far running well under 1% rma BTW Guys, C-Systems and AVT has had no phones / internet till this morning. What a mess, communications company blames phone company, phone company blame communications company. Two days ago communications changes the new buildings router / switch / and BPX, the whole system to prove there point ! Yesterday Bell finally admits it's there problem, and this morning everything works !

08-13-2004, 08:45 AM	#138
Hotseat Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 62	Bill, Someone just emailed me your comments here, guess I missed it earlier. I'm not sure where your going with this, but please lets stop it now. The fact is, as any engineer knows, anything built by man will have the potential to fail. The issue is not that a company will have product that fails, the issue is what a company does about it. There are currently three basic methods of handling defects. 1. Put a product on the market knowing it will fail, and count on the fact a small number of customers will return said unit if the price is low enough. Without offense, this is often used by oversea's "fly by night" companys. 2. Ignore low returns number (high as 15%) and do buisness factoring in said returns. 3. Do an analysis on return product, change manufacturing methods, suppliers, or design to reduce your returns to a low percentage. We have and always will use the third method, as long as I am in charge So far we have had VERY few returns, and to date the issues have all been assembly defects, with the exception of some "rusty" bolts from a bad supplier. To resolve that issue, we changed to stainless steel months ago. I hope this answers some of your concerns Dan C-Systems

08-13-2004, 09:32 AM	#140
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	Dan there was/is no intent to denigrate your product, I too am awaiting delivery - no ? (I understand moving, we will have to do so shortly as well.) rather I was using the (few that I'm aware of) reported problems to illustrate the difficulties of actually achieving a 50,000 hr MTBF yes, I'm aware of the various approaches to 'dealing' with defectives, but a simple fact remains; a 50,000 hr component cannot incur many failures w/o jeopardizing that value some actual #s ? - with the MCP300 we had ~90% failure rate (9yr old stock shipped from mfgr !) for the first shipment - we are still replacing those pumps later this 'improved' to ~5%, absolutely unacceptable - in response to these problems I sourced the MCP600 with which we got snake-bit again, a unanticipated condition of use caused ~20% failures (now abated); the re-design eliminated the pump head problems and we see ~0.5% near term failures (electrical); acceptable from a commercial perspective, but not if in pursuit of a 50,000 hr MTBF - with the Laing pumps it is a bit early in the cycle but we've seen 0 problems to date, given the pump's history, construction, and the mfgr I do not expect problems of any nature, time will tell now it is the natural tendency to 'explain away' individual component problems as 'being caused by X', but the failure did still occur and must be considered in the overall time-to-failure considerations for sure nothing made is perfect, but a 50,000 hr MTBF component cannot bear even a few near term failures

08-13-2004, 12:06 PM	#144
Hotseat Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 62	Frequency generation means you can monitor the pump, just as you would a systems fan, via your BIOS software. Flow is increased via a wider impeller and some small seal / motor changes. New case offers improved internal temps, un-noticeable from outside. Motor compartment is now not a permit seal, uses a gasket or o-ring which allows you to change the direction of the logo if you want. Also in the future we will offer a "re-build" kit if needed, which the new case allows us to produce / offer to you cheaply (less then 12$ USD) Also a couple of others details, I don't want to openly discuss right now ** The 50,000 MTBF is for motor only Tempus, and clearly states so on our pages. The claim comes from our motor sub-contractor, and it has been our experience that there claim is valid. Last edited by Hotseat; 08-13-2004 at 12:12 PM.

08-13-2004, 02:07 PM	#146
Hotseat Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 62	^Sorry I don't personally know when. We don't handle what pumps go where, only OEM orders now. I know there was some large orders that went out monday and tuesday, and several large OEM orders going out in a week or two as well. You will likely find our pumps somewhere soon, just don't be surprized if it doesn't say "c-systems" on it Like I said, move didn't help, and the move did not go well. I hope Bill and Swiftech has a better go of it.

08-13-2004, 05:42 PM	#147
Stang_Man Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Plainville, CT Posts: 79	Dan, i bought a CSP-X2 from Bigfoot computers, and am currently awaiting shipment. Do you know their stock on them and what i'll be getting? Will they have the D-Tek logo on them, or C-Systems?

08-14-2004, 06:58 AM	#148
Hotseat Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 62	^Just looked, Bigfoot did not request custom engraving, so has "C-systems" on them. Sorry, I can not openly discuss when or any other details of there order. Please understand that is up to the vendor to disclose....not our place to do so.

08-17-2004, 03:48 PM	#150
Hotseat Cooling Neophyte Join Date: May 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 62	^ Big foots order is the Mark II units, think he will update his pages soon if he hasn't already.

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