Bill Adams waterblock testing article

[bigdawginva]

Bill, thanks, but I would imagine you have much better things to do than to read my posts and respond.

Obviously, my request does not lend itself to easy or straightforward responses and I suspected as much. Clearly, that's why I see very little recommendations in these forums. Enthusiasts visiting here should understand this is not the place for a lot of "retail" recommendations. This is more a place for the DIY, custom-built, CAD-engineered, flowchart designed solutions by those who are looking for the nth C. Definitely not for the faint-hearted.

But I continue to learn and understand a wealth of information with each visit. Clearly, I will never advance to the level most of you have achieved nor am I interested in doing so. The "science" of WCing, to include flow rates, thermal dynamics, CW, TW, thermal impedance, etc., does not fascinate nor interest me. I'm more interested in reading how different combinations of optimized components behave. However, I'm fortunate many of you are interested in the whys and hows and are kind enough to share your knowledge and findings. I enjoy the whats.

My request was not meant to solicit lectures of "figure it out yourself because someone else's already told you what you need to know". I clearly understood that point from the articles I've read over the months. I'm clearly "outmatched" here and find myself quite apprenhensive to ask for advice or assistance (at least publically) for fear of being ridiculed or lectured. I have read too many threads/posts where that happens quite often. No need for me to add to that. Certainly, this is one place I would NEVER give advice either.

For instance, I need assistance trying to locate fittings to convert my 3/8" GeminiCool Spiral to 1/2" outlet but could not bring myself to ask for that assistance here. I'm afraid of the "why on earth do you want to do that" responses.

[BillA]

bigdawginva

I cannot speak for JoeK's site, but I would suggest that you feel free to ask that which you wish
- there are many 'levels' of discussion occurring one on top of the other
don't be bashful, wade in

(I become difficult with 'bait-and-switch' conversations, ask a technical question and then piss-and-moan at the complexity of the answer)

you identified the crux of the 'problem'
a buying guide is of benefit to the sellers, why don't they provide such ?
- they make the money, no ?
(and we both know the answer to that, they wish one to buy their stuff - even if not the 'best' for a given application)

but you gloss over the contradiction in your position:
this is a 'hobby' of/by enthusiasts, people who are interested in the why and how of the various bits and pieces
- these guys do assemble their own systems, and the better ones can tell you why they selected this bit to go with that other (or at least why they believe so)

if these details are not of interest to you, I suggest you buy a kit
several do better than the assemblage of components based on an 'expert poster's advice'

[Joe]

Its a long standing rule that this forum isnt like others. When people ask simple or noob questions, they get answers. They dont get flack from everyone calling them a noob or anything.

What do you think this is? the [L]imp forums or something? we dont play those games here. and we dont ban you for asking questions either!

[murray13]

Joe said:

...long standing rule that this forum isnt like others.

Thanks Joe!

That's one of the reasons i've stuck around in a forum for once instead of just 'reading and moving on'. After years of finding good discussions with less than pleasant people it is very refreshing to find the Pro/Forums welcome new people with good ideas or good questions. And for the most part willing to answer the same questions over and over because not everyone has been reading the forums for years.

Kudos to the community!!!

Thanks all!

[MadDogMe]

I'm clearly "outmatched" here and find myself quite apprenhensive to ask for advice or assistance (at least publically) for fear of being ridiculed or lectured. I have read too many threads/posts where that happens quite often. No need for me to add to that. Certainly, this is one place I would NEVER give advice either.

I've never seen anyone ridiculed here for asking for advice. the only time I've seen that happen is when people hold to a (wrong) idea and won't back down. then it usualy gets very technical in the effort to explain in very exact terms. if they still don't listen BillA calls them an asshole and they sulk off to other forums with a "I'm never coming back" thrown over their shoulder :shrug: ...

I'm a newby kinda guy here myself, I've been watercooling all of three months or so, does'nt mean you can't give out, as advice, what you've picked up, there's always someone greener than you. there are a few people here whos knowledge of fluid mechanics, engineering, theory and other pertinant knowledge can be very daunting if you let it, but unless you're trying to put yourself up as something you're not what's the problem?. most of the flack that's ever been has been because of this I think...

Back to your question, who can say?, you've seen BillAs testing, it's the best, but it's incomplete, and I'd say he's the only one who'd be qualified(in a position) to answer, and you wanted a qualified answer did'nt you?, not a guesstimate like mine?, or even an educted guesstimate from one of the initiates?. if there was an answer it'd have been exploited on the front page of any pulp [H]ardware site long ago...

So why get antsy because no~one has answered the unanswerable? :shrug: ...

Peace ...

[BillA]

must take a bit of exception to a couple of your words there MDM

I am NOT "the only one who'd be qualified" by any means,
and we should without any great strain be able to identify some of those individuals on this forum, and on several other forums as well

and you would be amazed at the huge depth of knowledge and experience that exists with 'lurkers' who choose not to post
(I know this as I have e-mail contact with many such)

I am not too sure just how to do this;
but if a way could be found to entice more of these very experienced individuals to post,
then the forums could be an even better resource

but again, many are here also just 'for fun'
different strokes . . . .

[Joe]

Different people have different interpretations of "Fun".

My take on it is that we are all in it for fun, or we wouldn’t be doing it. Being serious about something doesn’t mean you aren’t in it for fun also. The only way I could see you NOT be in it for fun or some side pleasure is if you have a monetary interest in your involvement in cooling. Once you get to the level you need to pay your bills based on a hobby such as this, then I can see it stop being fun rather fast and start being a stressful burden.

The opinion that people who have vast knowledge on this topic don’t post due to most of the people here just are in it for fun is a bit misguided I think.

While some do confuse being serious about the technology for not finding it fun, I think it’s the opposite. People who are serious and driven in this hobby have the most fun of all as they get all the rewards and pleasure from its growth. People who are just here to find which one is the best, don’t find cooling that fun at all, but see it as a burden that they need to get past to move onto other things.

As much as I loathe doing reviews and testing of cooling devices, when I do testing and reviews, seeing the data evolve into a result is very satisfying and fun. Also reading about new designs and technologies is also quite a bit of fun to think through how those new designs and plans would affect cooling results.

[BillA]

Originally posted by Joe
Different people have different interpretations of "Fun".
. . . .
The opinion that people who have vast knowledge on this topic don’t post due to most of the people here just are in it for fun is a bit misguided I think.
. . . .

thats not what I'm saying Joe, or at least thats not what I meant

my 'point' was rather that it can be difficult to converse when the same words have different meanings to different audiences

by virtue of training, engineers for example develop a vocabulary in their particular specialty of words with VERY specific meanings;
these meanings often are not quite the same as 'common usage'
- so discourse can quickly bog down in what many will then decry as 'semantics' and reject - without ever having understood what the real issue even was about
-- one's thoughts can be no more precise than the ability to describe them (for we all think with ‘words’)

sometimes its just not worth the hassle
not meant so negatively Joe (as you and I see our interest rather similarly),
just observing that there are impediments to posting

indeed bigdawginva made the same observation from the opposite pole

[gmat]

Just to post a rant: Bill, could you *please* use international units ? I see m of h2O first, then psi (WTH is psi anyway), etc..
That was my rant
Keep up the good job. Maybe in a few years you'll get a chair at a university, with a front plate saying "Bill Adams - Doctor in WaterCooling".. hehe...

[BillA]

a chair in a few years ?
hell, I'll be dead in a few years,
probably about the same time I learn SI units

[Joe]

why not use kPa?

[BillA]

this question was asked on several forums, this one as well
the engrs said yea, kPa - that's what's used for calculations
so I posted a couple of graphs in kPa
not popular

the 'problem' is that pump output is uniformly described in mH2O
so I attempted to speak "WCing talk"

one nice aspect of the metric system is the abundance of units

bar, and millibar
pascal, and kilopascal and hectopascal
kilogram per square meter, and centimeter

and of course
meters of water, and centimeter

[Joe]

Ahhh good point. in lots of reaserch I have been doing in forced induction systems for cars, its all done in kPa so I have just gotten used to doing kPa to mmH2O and PSI

Any measurement is good for me hehe I got a calculator

[hmale]

Originally posted by gmat
Just to post a rant: Bill, could you *please* use international units ? I see m of h2O first, then psi (WTH is psi anyway), etc..
That was my rant
Keep up the good job. Maybe in a few years you'll get a chair at a university, with a front plate saying "Bill Adams - Doctor in WaterCooling".. hehe...

Or an LPE with emphasis in W/C...sounds like a money maker.

[gmat]

Oh. mH2O is fine. Psi is not... Trying to find the correlation between a graph in psi and a pump output in mH2O is .... contorted. That was just my point
Pa is more used in industrial apps.
mH2O sounds appropriate when talking about water...

[MadDogMe]

must take a bit of exception to a couple of your words there MDM

OK then!, how about "with the means"? ...

I'm not saying no one else could'nt come up with the same answers, but who could prove them?(you made your bed BillA, don't be bashful about lying in it! )...

[BillA]

much more accurate phraseology, and we like precision

worth remembering is that problems and analyses can be defined and addressed in different manners;
one could say by theory as contrasted by experiment
- of course all theory is ultimately 'proven' by experiment

I am an experimentalist, using theory to assist my understanding;
but several other posters here are quite well grounded in theory,
which will provide answers where data is lacking or ambiguous

[aitor]

The solution is easy:
http://www.joshmadison.com/software/convert/
not more problems of conversions

[Les]

Some musing on the relation between bench and system testing of a wb.
In the unlikely event of true CPU temps have considered two(2) cases for the Cooltech WB75 cooling a 1sq cm Die( ~Duron):
a) Wattage calculator and/or stress program are crap(70%) and no significant secondary heat paths(e.g. thro mb and mb C/W = infinity))
b)Wattage calculator and stress program are 100% correct but there are significant secondary heat paths(e.g. mb C/W=0.5 and 0.7).



Possibly worth noting that heat loss by secondary paths delivers a double whammy to any temp changes.
.