New dangerden block

[Since87]

Was checking out DD's site and saw an example of how they don't let engineering get in the way of marketing.

They are advertising a power inverter for running AC pumps from a PSU. From the specs:

"Modified sinewave output voltage"

Typically this statement means an output like the signal shown below in red.



A modified sinewave like this is fine for a lot of electronic items, but it is likely to make a pump run very hot, and may well result in the premature death of any pump it is used with.

[Player0]

I'm still testing, but this is on an AMD system.

The review should be ready in a few days.

[Player0]

At 2250mhz on an XP2400+ at 1.85v, HE120.3 radiator, Eheim 1060 pump, Im getting about 37c with the Cascade and 36c with the RBX.

Compared to the Maze4 which runs 39-40c, the AquaJoe at 41c, MCW5002 at 42c, SlitEdge at 42c, ThermoChill at 40c, and whatever else I tested.

On different flow settings and overclocks, the Cascade does a little better. The Cascade does a little better with restricted flow than the RBX, but Im using the #4 jet. Im sure I could adjust the RBX with the #2 jet, but it might reduce performance. The blocks are VERY similar though in performance. I beleive the Cascade is just slightly better performing though. I need to remount the block and run some more tests though, these RBX numbers are just prelim.

[winewood]

Im getting about 37c with the Cascade and 36c with the RBX.

I beleive the Cascade is just slightly better performing though. I need to remount the block and run some more tests though, these RBX numbers are just prelim.

please explain. the better performer isnt the lowest temp?

[Cathar]

Originally posted by jaydee116
Any idea if they asked if they could use the design?

They didn't.

[joemac]

Originally posted by Since87
Was checking out DD's site and saw an example of how they don't let engineering get in the way of marketing.

They are advertising a power inverter for running AC pumps from a PSU. From the specs:

"Modified sinewave output voltage"

Typically this statement means an output like the signal shown below in red.



A modified sinewave like this is fine for a lot of electronic items, but it is likely to make a pump run very hot, and may well result in the premature death of any pump it is used with.

While the modify sine wave looks “bad” it really isn’t. That modified sine wave in some cases is better then what comes out of the wall in some parts of the country. I am not defending DD advertising just pointing out some facts.

[Player0]

Originally posted by winewood
please explain. the better performer isnt the lowest temp?

I'm not 100% which one is better yet. I havent posted all the performance variables. It will all be in the review. But basically, the RBX with the #4 jet is VERY restrictive. When I cut the flow back, both the Cascade and the RBX go to 38c.

If I was to use the #2 jet, Im sure that the flow would be pretty similar, and the Cascade would pull just slightly ahead. The temperatures are so close tho, its near the tolerance of error. There might not be a clear winner at this wattage level (about 95w).

At default XP2400+ speeds, the Cascade performs better, 32c versus 33c. Yes, its confusing, im working on it.

[jaydee]

Originally posted by Cathar
They didn't.

That's unfortunate.

This reminds me of Neomoses mini channel block with the adjustable nozzel aswell.

[satanicoo]

Player0: May i suggest that you make a max overclock with both of them?
To see wich one reaches the highest stable overclock?

[Cathar]

With regards to the interchangeable nozzles. Bill, and I'm sure quite a few others, will remember back to the very first White Water prototype that had drop in interchangeable nozzles, albeit in a somewhat more primitive form, but they existed nonetheless, being plastic inserts that sat underneath the central barb.

I had experimented with different nozzles widths, multiple jet points, parallel nozzle slits, etc, etc.

Thing is, it was an experimental tool in order to determine the better "middle ground" across a range of scenarios.

Still, nice to see that something that was done 15 months ago is now someone else's "new and original" idea.

[morephyous]

Looks good.

Well done Dangerden. At the end of the day, all waterblocks will have fine channels, intricate paths. Even Swiftech will have them sooner or later.

[jaydee]

Here is Neomoses. http://www.logiccooling.com/index.htm

The jet in ther middle is adjustable. It is made of 2 peices of metal that slide together or away from each other.

Makes one wonder why bother sharing block idea's.

[Since87]

Originally posted by Cathar
Still, nice to see that something that was done 15 months ago is now someone else's "new and original" idea.

More marketing. Only one of the nozzles comes with the block. You can buy other$$$

What do you want to bet, the stock nozzle plate doesn't perform as well as one of the others in a typical system? More $$$ for DD when people buy the optimal nozzle plate.

[pHaestus]

I think it's unfortunate that DD didn't at least tip the hat to Cathar's design in their description. The design is in public domain already so it wouldn't have cost them anything. It goes back to the idea of properly citing scientific research in my mind. And while now waterpimp acts like the design was all engineering and thinking, this thread:

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...&threadid=7112

suggests that a ww clone was the starting point.

Having said that, the block looks nicely made and I have always had good luck with Dangerden products. I am glad to see a low cost, high performance wb (assuming they stick to their traditional $40 price point).

Also I would guess cloning the whitewater is a reasonable strategy for designers seeking to make a better-performing block. And if that clone performs better than their current production block then why not switch?

[nikhsub1]

Danger Den is gonna do what they are gonna do as always. Things like this really benefit no one in my mind. Take Cathar, he comes up with the WW that pushes water blocks to a new level. The design as far as WB's go was unique, fine channels, nozzle plate, 3 barbs etc. When people blatently copy designs, it does not benefit the WC'ing community one bit. What are we getting with the RBX? A rehashed WW. Let's see something NEW AND DIFFERENT for christ's sake.

[winewood]

LOL.. this dd sounds different from the ww. In fact the numbers make it so. You guys forgot that Cathar was selling these. Its not the watercooling community that is mass making blocks... so don't lump all these guys in a common thread. He has now moved on to a different product which people WILL COPY and improve on over time.
Cathar made his chunk, now other people are improving upon a design and marketing it. Every product has a life cycle before someone else modifies it or changes it for their needs. Behold Captiolism! I dare say this is NEW and different. Just like every heat sink you have on the market out there is NEW and DIFFERENT when they paint it a different color or exchange fans. Or simply adjust the fins one way or another.. same basic everything, no one is crucifiying them for doing what they have for YEARS. Im sure this same conversation went on 3-4 years ago in the heatsink forums.
If people think that watercooling is exempt from basic marketing and selling tactics then I suggest people study a wee bit harder.

The benifit: better performance, lower prices, more distribution. Companies are getting wealthier by meeting customers demands.

[trit187]

but did waterpimp sell the design or get money from DD? because in that case it would be pretty low after admiting "This is basically a White Water clone"

[Roscal]

Have a look here, more pics : http://www.themodfathers.com/reviews/dd_rbx.php

[BillA]

Originally posted by joemac
Very true - I would like to thank the guy who invented fins and pins LOL

yet another fatuous remark from the guys w/o ethics



but you never have done so, have you

[winewood]

Didnt they have pins on the bluecooling stuff on hardocp? Basically, Bill you are telling us that swiftech was the 1st to use pins?? Wow.. I had no idea! I thought hoot also had them out before swiftech. Then that.. makes.. swiftech immoral?

Yup, I bet now that Bill is in swiftech we will never see another block that uses an already seen style. Thats going to be a fun one to see.

[BillA]

from that review:
"Through testing it has been found that your base can never be too thin."

the proclamation of ignorance, lol
this is true only under some circumstances, and not so for others

"The idea for nozzelling was first floated on the net in an article by BillA. He indicated that if you could find a nozzle pattern and velocity to best suit your individual setup and block furniture then you would be able to gain improved cooling."

huh ? (credit given where none was due ??)
guess I've now written so much I'm forgetting it
anyone got a link to that old article ?

not really a bad 'product review', as such things go
(but I prefer comprehensive testing instead)

and certainly agree that most designs are evolutionary,
but still would have liked to see a 'tip of the hat' to Cathar

winewood
try to think before writing
go read the thread on Hoot's wb
did he make the bp that he used ?

[winewood]

winewood
try to think before writing
go read the thread on Hoot's wb
did he make the bp that he used ?

The real question that goes back to your former comment.. did swiftech come up with fins? Who did? Who was the first to use the pins.. thats the real question. Does swiftech 'who is beyond reproof from bill' give "credit" to anyone for any steps gained from outside its walls? When was the model from that picture taken bill?.. or should I say "o ethical moral compass".
I think that the following is a fair statement. Expect attacks from bill if you block may perform better than swiftech. Is there any reason why you make war on anything non-swiftech? I certainly don't see any company on any moral high road. And this doesn't exclude swiftech because you have elevated them with your presence o mighty attack dog.

[jaydee]

Originally posted by jaydee116
I don't see how they could sell one for $40ish and make money on them. Thats a hell of a lot of milling on that not to mention the tops. I would bet, if they make it to market, they will be around $55-$60.

I was close... Looks like it will be $52.95. That is a very impressive price....

[winewood]

Thats awsome considering the ww was selling around $100 US at one time.. (wasnt it? :shrug: ) I love DDen, those guys have great service and are very competitive. This just shows they are not going anywhere but up.

[BillA]

winewood
go ahead and use quotes where I have attacked another mfgrs wb

when you make (repeated) assertions that are not true you devalue all else that you say as well

what I do criticize is dishonesty and half truths (on this forum and OCers only)
and if you wish to disagree with that, fine

now, what was that you said about Hoot's wb ?
"I thought hoot also had them out before swiftech."
true ?
no
"Then that.. makes.. swiftech immoral?"
no, just displays your agenda
you state untruths to try to make your 'point';
a false statement is a lie,
ergo, you are a liar

NOW go and read the thread on Hoot's wb
THEN be honest enough to admit your assertion was false
OR just keep stirring the sh*t
grow up