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General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums.

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Unread 08-21-2003, 09:19 PM   #1
Khledar
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Johnson Pump Leak

I picked up a couple Johnson pumps (http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...5&pagenumber=1) and am having a bit of a leaking problem.

I think the impeller shaft is leaking - but I'm not sure, I'll describe the problem a bit more and if anyone has any advice or experience please help me


I had the first pump running for about 6 weeks, noticed a bit of a drip coming from the general impeller housing area - so I took it apart inspected the impeller housing seal, it looked in quite good condition but I siliconed it up anyway - I swapped the second pump in the system and left the leaking(now siliconed) one in a box. After a couple months the second one has begun leaking - in generally the same area, so I decided to swap in the siliconed one - it is also still leaking! Upon further inpection of the second pump the water appears to be trickling out the ventilation holes around the impeller shaft (if you have one you know where I'm talking about)

It's a slow leak and seems to leak coniderably less(if at all) when the computer is off.

I took one of the pumps fully apart when I first got them - had a hell of a time getting the brushes in place (go thread ) - but didn't see much int he way of access to any seals on the impeller shaft. Just curious if there is a way to seal this at all - or do I have two paper weights?

I have a little bucket under the pump now - guess I might have to stick my Danner back in - was getting awfully used to jut turning the comp. on though

Thanks for any ino you can give me
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Unread 08-21-2003, 10:00 PM   #2
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I'm glad I didn't buy one, I thought They sounded too good. Yeah I'd say paper weights.
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Unread 08-21-2003, 11:20 PM   #3
Solarian League
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i bought one and i am now buying two more as backups and i'm also buying a lots of goop, i'm out of time so i have to go with these pump for atleast untill next summer then i can rip em out for something better. such as iwaks
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Unread 08-21-2003, 11:30 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Solarian League
i bought one and i am now buying two more as backups and i'm also buying a lots of goop, i'm out of time so i have to go with these pump for atleast untill next summer then i can rip em out for something better. such as iwaks
I'd skip the goop. The likely place for the pump to leak is where the motor shaft enters the impeller housing. You can't goop that spot up and expect the pump to work.
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Unread 08-21-2003, 11:55 PM   #5
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Bummer

Could you simply run electrical tape over the vent holes?
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Unread 08-22-2003, 12:03 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by bigben2k
Bummer

Could you simply run electrical tape over the vent holes?
And have the water backup until it is into the motor itself.

Yep, there's a good idea.
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Unread 08-22-2003, 12:12 AM   #7
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Darn.

It's sponge-wrapping time.
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Unread 08-22-2003, 12:14 AM   #8
Khledar
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Re: Since87

Yeah I've been thinking about how to seal it... Some sort of goop i definately out - I'll prolly eventually come up with something but it's a very difficult area to access - like I don't want to break the pump / impeller shaft trying to fix it....



Re: Bigben

I could - but wouldn't that just encourage the water to go into the windings/brushes other electrical stuff?


Ok here's Big Ben's idea....
I think the shaft looks like this:

Code:
Impeller Housing

|____    |    _____|
      |_ | _|
         |
         |
 ________|________
|                  |
Motor Housing
If I was able to seal the shaft between the impeller housing and motor housing - is it likely the water would just go into the motor or could there be a seal there too? Being a pessimist I think it would be bad to encourage water towards other things but... I can't remember what the upper part of the pump is like taken apart.
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Unread 08-22-2003, 12:18 AM   #9
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The back end of the motor has a tiny bearing, to support the motor shaft. I didn't take it apart any further than that.
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Unread 08-22-2003, 01:26 AM   #10
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that sounds nasty, how about geting a bowel and some horse for the water to drip out, but you will have alots of fun keeping it full esp if its an inline loop like mine with the water T at the bottom

anyway i just hope 2 johnson pump and some juctious work esp if they start to leak will get me though the school year, I HAVE to leave my computer running 24/7 for distro folding, and other work such as rendering stuff etc... and probably will also setup a small webserver for me to experment on so heh...

i just pray to god that 2 johnson is enough to get though about 200-300 some day then i will be off for the summer and i can trash the johnson pump and figure out what to do next. probably will end up saving up some cash for a iwak pump and build my own little tank, then build a little box like on top of the case and bolt/rivet it onto the top of the case.
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Unread 08-22-2003, 02:26 AM   #11
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Khledar did you put the pump flat? or motor down and the impeller on top?
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Unread 08-22-2003, 02:27 AM   #12
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Yeah I don't worry too much about the dripping - I just have a little ceramic dish under the leak right now catches everything, and with a resevoir about 4" cubed it needs ~ 100mL every couple days if its running 24/7 - its not fast or anythign it's just a pain - and I gotta keep an eye on it see if it's speeding up or whatnot.

You coule also situate the pump such that it dripped into a res or something - I'm currently thinking about reworking the housing such that the pump is basically semi-submerged - the main problem is time - right now I just want it to work - In a couple months or somethign I might have time for a more permanent solution.

[Edit: typos]
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Last edited by Khledar; 08-22-2003 at 02:43 AM.
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Unread 08-22-2003, 02:38 AM   #13
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It's mounted horizontally with the same orientation as shown in the manual. That is outlet straight up inlet pointing to the back of my comp.

[Edit: Below]

They were both mounted in virtually the same way and both leak from the bottom - but if it's leaking at the shaft, the water is obviously just coming out the bottom, I haven't tried turning it around - as it would be rather difficult in my case and with the tubing attached.
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Unread 08-22-2003, 11:10 AM   #14
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Khledar: would you attribute this leak to your tampering with the pump, or would you say that's it's an actual pump fault?

How far did you go when you took them apart?

I removed the back cover, to solder the caps in there, but I never tried to pull out the rotor. I could tell that the bearing in the plastic back cover held the rotor in the center, because without it, the rotor would be pulled off center by the permanent magnets. Otherwise, I removed the impeller housing cover, to look at the impeller, but that's as far as I ever went, in taking it apart. How about you?
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Unread 08-22-2003, 11:15 AM   #15
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lol
what is it about 2,500 hrs that was not clear ?
look at how the impeller is 'supported'
a mechanical seal will not be fixed with goop, if it is not replaceable . . . .
- and expect it to fail in a shorter period next time
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Unread 08-22-2003, 11:46 AM   #16
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They haven't been using these for 2500 hours yet though have they? Must be a pretty wide bell curve on the MTBF
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Unread 08-22-2003, 12:19 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by pHaestus
They haven't been using these for 2500 hours yet though have they? Must be a pretty wide bell curve on the MTBF
You could set up a poll... "How many hours did your Johnson pump last before leaking?"

Then we could see the distribution.

J/K
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Unread 08-22-2003, 03:49 PM   #18
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or, just perhaps . .
there is a reason these were being sold through a surplus dealer ? ?
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Unread 08-22-2003, 04:10 PM   #19
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Haven't you already been warned once about using that fancy deductive reasoning, Bill??
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Unread 08-22-2003, 04:30 PM   #20
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mea culpa, mea culpa
mea maxima culpa

kowtowing forehead to floor
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Unread 08-23-2003, 03:47 AM   #21
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Re: Bigben
I only removed the brush housing and slid the motor housing down a little - regardless, I only did this to one of the pumps - mainly for curiosity's sake. Both now exhibit a similar problem. I will take this apart further and report back - but it won't likely happen particularly soon - but maybe....


Re: BillA
After both showed similar symptoms my first thought was, now I know why they were "surplus" We'll see though - I'm still only one of many.

Re: pH
Wide bellcurve? If so talk about unlucky to get 2 on the fringes
Regarding the MTBF I'd say I got ~50 days avg 10hours/day so 500hours give or take 100


Also thanks for all your input - If I find any info on a solution I'll let everyone know.
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Unread 08-23-2003, 12:11 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Khledar
Re: Bigben
I only removed the brush housing and slid the motor housing down a little - regardless, I only did this to one of the pumps - mainly for curiosity's sake. Both now exhibit a similar problem. I will take this apart further and report back - but it won't likely happen particularly soon - but maybe....
I wish I had those pictures handy, from when I soldered the caps on mine.

What do you mean, more precisely, by "slid the motor housing down a little"?
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Unread 08-23-2003, 02:40 PM   #23
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why not submerge the impeller shaft on a reservoir?
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Unread 08-23-2003, 05:15 PM   #24
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Re: Bigben

I have some pics on my old HD I'll try to dig them up - but the metal housing that surrounds the windings and magnets - I slid that part down such that I could see the top of it - I did not take it off - I knew I would have to reassemble it sometime
But like I said one of the pumps has neevr even had the impeller housing taken off - and that's the one I saw the leak coming from the shaft on.


Re: satanicoo

If you put the impeller shaft leading into a resevoir you would still have to seal the hole through which the shaft enters. Sealing a hole with a rotating metal rod in it is one of the more difficult things to do - especially when the parts are so small. (The shaft is 1-2mm in diameter.)
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Unread 08-24-2003, 02:41 AM   #25
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But the leak trought the hole where the shafth enter should be small enouf to be ignored?
The leak would automatically drop into the reservoir!
OR is that leak that important?
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