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General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums. |
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08-21-2003, 09:19 PM | #1 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: North Vancouver BC
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Johnson Pump Leak
I picked up a couple Johnson pumps (http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...5&pagenumber=1) and am having a bit of a leaking problem.
I think the impeller shaft is leaking - but I'm not sure, I'll describe the problem a bit more and if anyone has any advice or experience please help me I had the first pump running for about 6 weeks, noticed a bit of a drip coming from the general impeller housing area - so I took it apart inspected the impeller housing seal, it looked in quite good condition but I siliconed it up anyway - I swapped the second pump in the system and left the leaking(now siliconed) one in a box. After a couple months the second one has begun leaking - in generally the same area, so I decided to swap in the siliconed one - it is also still leaking! Upon further inpection of the second pump the water appears to be trickling out the ventilation holes around the impeller shaft (if you have one you know where I'm talking about) It's a slow leak and seems to leak coniderably less(if at all) when the computer is off. I took one of the pumps fully apart when I first got them - had a hell of a time getting the brushes in place (go thread ) - but didn't see much int he way of access to any seals on the impeller shaft. Just curious if there is a way to seal this at all - or do I have two paper weights? I have a little bucket under the pump now - guess I might have to stick my Danner back in - was getting awfully used to jut turning the comp. on though Thanks for any ino you can give me
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08-21-2003, 10:00 PM | #2 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Hesperia, CA
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I'm glad I didn't buy one, I thought They sounded too good. Yeah I'd say paper weights.
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08-21-2003, 11:20 PM | #3 |
Cooling Neophyte
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Solarian League
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i bought one and i am now buying two more as backups and i'm also buying a lots of goop, i'm out of time so i have to go with these pump for atleast untill next summer then i can rip em out for something better. such as iwaks
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08-21-2003, 11:30 PM | #4 | |
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Quote:
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08-21-2003, 11:55 PM | #5 |
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Bummer
Could you simply run electrical tape over the vent holes? |
08-22-2003, 12:03 AM | #6 | |
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Yep, there's a good idea. |
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08-22-2003, 12:12 AM | #7 |
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Darn.
It's sponge-wrapping time. |
08-22-2003, 12:14 AM | #8 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: North Vancouver BC
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Re: Since87
Yeah I've been thinking about how to seal it... Some sort of goop i definately out - I'll prolly eventually come up with something but it's a very difficult area to access - like I don't want to break the pump / impeller shaft trying to fix it.... Re: Bigben I could - but wouldn't that just encourage the water to go into the windings/brushes other electrical stuff? Ok here's Big Ben's idea.... I think the shaft looks like this: Code:
Impeller Housing |____ | _____| |_ | _| | | ________|________ | | Motor Housing
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08-22-2003, 12:18 AM | #9 |
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The back end of the motor has a tiny bearing, to support the motor shaft. I didn't take it apart any further than that.
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08-22-2003, 01:26 AM | #10 |
Cooling Neophyte
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Solarian League
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that sounds nasty, how about geting a bowel and some horse for the water to drip out, but you will have alots of fun keeping it full esp if its an inline loop like mine with the water T at the bottom
anyway i just hope 2 johnson pump and some juctious work esp if they start to leak will get me though the school year, I HAVE to leave my computer running 24/7 for distro folding, and other work such as rendering stuff etc... and probably will also setup a small webserver for me to experment on so heh... i just pray to god that 2 johnson is enough to get though about 200-300 some day then i will be off for the summer and i can trash the johnson pump and figure out what to do next. probably will end up saving up some cash for a iwak pump and build my own little tank, then build a little box like on top of the case and bolt/rivet it onto the top of the case. |
08-22-2003, 02:26 AM | #11 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: palo alto, CA
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Khledar did you put the pump flat? or motor down and the impeller on top?
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08-22-2003, 02:27 AM | #12 |
Cooling Savant
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: North Vancouver BC
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Yeah I don't worry too much about the dripping - I just have a little ceramic dish under the leak right now catches everything, and with a resevoir about 4" cubed it needs ~ 100mL every couple days if its running 24/7 - its not fast or anythign it's just a pain - and I gotta keep an eye on it see if it's speeding up or whatnot.
You coule also situate the pump such that it dripped into a res or something - I'm currently thinking about reworking the housing such that the pump is basically semi-submerged - the main problem is time - right now I just want it to work - In a couple months or somethign I might have time for a more permanent solution. [Edit: typos]
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"mooooo" said the cow. ERTW - UBC P4 2.4B @3.01Ghz 167FSB :: Abit IC7 :: 2x256MB HyperX PC3700 :: ASUS 9600XT :: WD Raptor 2x36GB RAID0 Last edited by Khledar; 08-22-2003 at 02:43 AM. |
08-22-2003, 02:38 AM | #13 |
Cooling Savant
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It's mounted horizontally with the same orientation as shown in the manual. That is outlet straight up inlet pointing to the back of my comp.
[Edit: Below] They were both mounted in virtually the same way and both leak from the bottom - but if it's leaking at the shaft, the water is obviously just coming out the bottom, I haven't tried turning it around - as it would be rather difficult in my case and with the tubing attached.
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08-22-2003, 11:10 AM | #14 |
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Khledar: would you attribute this leak to your tampering with the pump, or would you say that's it's an actual pump fault?
How far did you go when you took them apart? I removed the back cover, to solder the caps in there, but I never tried to pull out the rotor. I could tell that the bearing in the plastic back cover held the rotor in the center, because without it, the rotor would be pulled off center by the permanent magnets. Otherwise, I removed the impeller housing cover, to look at the impeller, but that's as far as I ever went, in taking it apart. How about you? |
08-22-2003, 11:15 AM | #15 |
CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered"
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lol
what is it about 2,500 hrs that was not clear ? look at how the impeller is 'supported' a mechanical seal will not be fixed with goop, if it is not replaceable . . . . - and expect it to fail in a shorter period next time |
08-22-2003, 11:46 AM | #16 |
Big PlayerMaking Big Money
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They haven't been using these for 2500 hours yet though have they? Must be a pretty wide bell curve on the MTBF
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08-22-2003, 12:19 PM | #17 | |
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Then we could see the distribution. J/K |
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08-22-2003, 03:49 PM | #18 |
CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered"
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or, just perhaps . .
there is a reason these were being sold through a surplus dealer ? ? |
08-22-2003, 04:10 PM | #19 |
Big PlayerMaking Big Money
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Haven't you already been warned once about using that fancy deductive reasoning, Bill??
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08-22-2003, 04:30 PM | #20 |
CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered"
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mea culpa, mea culpa
mea maxima culpa kowtowing forehead to floor |
08-23-2003, 03:47 AM | #21 |
Cooling Savant
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Re: Bigben
I only removed the brush housing and slid the motor housing down a little - regardless, I only did this to one of the pumps - mainly for curiosity's sake. Both now exhibit a similar problem. I will take this apart further and report back - but it won't likely happen particularly soon - but maybe.... Re: BillA After both showed similar symptoms my first thought was, now I know why they were "surplus" We'll see though - I'm still only one of many. Re: pH Wide bellcurve? If so talk about unlucky to get 2 on the fringes Regarding the MTBF I'd say I got ~50 days avg 10hours/day so 500hours give or take 100 Also thanks for all your input - If I find any info on a solution I'll let everyone know.
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08-23-2003, 12:11 PM | #22 | |
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What do you mean, more precisely, by "slid the motor housing down a little"? |
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08-23-2003, 02:40 PM | #23 |
Cooling Savant
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why not submerge the impeller shaft on a reservoir?
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08-23-2003, 05:15 PM | #24 |
Cooling Savant
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Re: Bigben
I have some pics on my old HD I'll try to dig them up - but the metal housing that surrounds the windings and magnets - I slid that part down such that I could see the top of it - I did not take it off - I knew I would have to reassemble it sometime But like I said one of the pumps has neevr even had the impeller housing taken off - and that's the one I saw the leak coming from the shaft on. Re: satanicoo If you put the impeller shaft leading into a resevoir you would still have to seal the hole through which the shaft enters. Sealing a hole with a rotating metal rod in it is one of the more difficult things to do - especially when the parts are so small. (The shaft is 1-2mm in diameter.)
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08-24-2003, 02:41 AM | #25 |
Cooling Savant
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But the leak trought the hole where the shafth enter should be small enouf to be ignored?
The leak would automatically drop into the reservoir! OR is that leak that important? |
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