Fx 5900 U full w/c (pushing man & machine to their limits)

[dima y]

btw BladeRunner i might be late with this but

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...&threadid=7744

it might help.

[nicozeg]

So from what I understand, front side and back side are two parallel loops, but you still need to make the water connection to the front?

Those channels look very deep compared to the thickness of the piece, I guess that you leaved a very thin baseplate. Maybe less than a mm?

[JFettig]

Sorry, time to rain on the parade...

http://www.tomshardware.com/technews...-coolfxbig.jpg
you might get the hammer, I had to use opera.


Jon

[pippin88]

How is that raining on Blade's parrade?

From what I understand Blade worked on a watercooling solution for the 5800/5900 with Gainward before this current one that you link to.

BTW to get picture working copy the link into your address bar and add a ? mark at the end.

[Boli]

Bladerunner: I don't want to disrepect your work (which is fantastic BTW ), but have you looked into casting?

If you are looking to market this maybe a casting method would give a cheaper option? one master mould, and you could experiment with different metals (silver for example).

One HUGE drawback though is the soldering, and the possibility you'll have to redesign the waterblocks with "O" rings and Perspex tops... but that'll mean you get to see those lovely channels.

That is still one HELL OF A water block thoughif I wern't so broke or inept, I'd try something like that .... or at least pay someone else to. ;P

~ Boli

[BladeRunner]

I'd worked with gainward & Bit-tech, but the product they have doesn't use any of my concepts. You can read the details HERE.

The main disapointment with Cool FX to me is Innovatek haven't gone the distance and water cooled the backside ram.

I have a full "Cool Fx" concept unit of my own built, and will show some images of it shortly once the FX5900 U cooler is done.

My current cooler making isn't really production ready, but each one I make helps me learn more about design concepts, etc. I have some ideas about production, and casting is being considered. Its just that copper is about the most difficult metal to cast well, and it would still require a fair bit of machining too.


nicozeg

The Cooler will have only one inlet and one outlet as shown in the last image, the two part design joins together to become one cooler when fitted to the card in much the same way as the 9800 pro ram block I made a while back, HERE. the backside block has a 3.2mm deep channel and the block was milled to 4.30 mm, giving about a 1.2mm base. this allowed .7mm milling of resistor reliefs in the block base at key points to avoid some of the surface mounts near the ram chips.


dima y

Yeah I had them from Gainward under NDA at the begining along with some images of the earlier, (inch longer pcb rev).

I carefully scaled the drawings to make my own dummy card as gainward couldn't supply me with a real one . I was pleased to find when I later got a real 5900 u that the heatsinks fitted my dummy card just fine meaning I got the hole calculations right

here is the dummy made from a base plate from an R/C car chassis and components scavanged from various dead 3D cards and glued on with 5min epoxy.

[Yo-DUH_87]

Originally posted by BladeRunner
...here is the dummy made from a base plate from an R/C car chassis and components scavanged from various dead 3D cards and glued on with 5min epoxy....

So, how many 3dmarks do you get with that

Your blocks keep getting better and better as you go along. I keep thinking, how can they get any better, but you manage

Seriously nice workmanship there

[MMZ_TimeLord]

BladeRunner,

I guess the only "flaw" I can see with your design is that there is no block over the center of the backside of the GPU. I have had both Raideon and GeForce cards and BOTH of them got extremely hot on the back side of the card in a tower setup.

I only ask this because the tempretures I have seen on the back of these cards in this area usually exceeds 50° C.

Any thoughts? :shrug:

[BladeRunner]

I will monitor the backside temp when its finished, but we are talking waterblock on the core here, not heatsink, and I,ve not noticed any heat in this area with my other coolers. Yes they do have a retainer, but it wont aid cooling much. The other thing is the ram wont be heating up the PCB and general area either.

I had considered making the backside block similar to the frontside, but weight is a factor with any all copper design so I'm always trying to make it smaller & lighter if possible. The other thing with the 5900U is that the area on the back of the card opposite the GPU is not clear but has scattered surface mounts, (resistors all over the place).

[MMZ_TimeLord]

The temp on the back of my GeForce 4 Ti 4200 is WITH a water block on the GPU. So, I will be interested in your temps.

And, yeah, I noticed the components there as well... so it would make it a bit difficult, at best, to shape a copper pad for that area. And then comes the issue of an electrical insulator. Probably have to use the same thermal film that is found on power transistors (MOSFETS, etc.). :shrug:

It was just something I wanted to note.

[BladeRunner]

No you are right it is worth noting as in a tower case at least as the 3D cards are thermodynacally upside down so the heat will want to rise upwards through the card. this will happen to some extent whatever you use heatsink or waterblock unless you are using a very cool coolant or Tec.

I'm surprised you are seeing over 50c with water however, but I guess it depends on your coolant temp / ambient and many other system specific factors.

[MMZ_TimeLord]

Right now it's not nearly that hot as I have a cheapo squrriel cage fan running on top of the card and blowing air right across that hot spot. Currently the temp is under 30° C. If I remove that fan, or shut it off, then the temps shoot right back up to between 45° C and 50° C depending upon how hot it is during the day. (No Air Conditioning in my apartment, but the temp is mild here, rarely getting above 35° C)

Anyhoo... I will see what I can come up with for my GeForce4 to share with the forum later.

Cheers!

[nOv1c3]

Beautiful work as always BladeRunner

Just have a few questions hope you can help

What type of bits -aka- endmills are you using for CU

High speed steel--- Cobalt--carbide-- vanadium -- ?

coated bits ?

2 fluted 3 fluted our 4 fluted ?


Do you use a raughing bit to hog everything out first then come back with a finnishing bit ?

I found a salvage place that has shelfs and shelfs full of deferent endmill for real cheap I picked up a handfull of bits everything from a 1/2 to 3/8 down to 1/8 all with defernt flutes and materials single and double sided ..Alot of the bits looks to be made by weldom also picked up a few T-slot and angle milling bits and a few reamers of deferent sizes
I payed $2 for the 1/2" bits and a $1 for the smallers ones and they all look to be brand new with the protective coating on the sharp end

I plan on converting my drill press over to a make shift mill just looking for a universal mill table at the moment and once i get that i think i,ll be all set to try my hand at this

so my main question is what type of endmill have you had the best results with using on CU


ps: once i figure out witch are the best bits to use I may run back to that salvage place and dig through the shelfs a little more carefully and pick up a few more handfulls

Many thanks for any help BladeRunner

[JFettig]

I have used HSS, HSS TiN coated and Carbides, and Carbides have outdone all the above 10 times+. You will want 2 flute to cut copper, It has a higher chip capasity and less chance of clogging up.

I know blade uses HSS because he cannot find any carbide end mills, but he sure hasta be going through them fast. I know I do.


Jon

[nOv1c3]

Originally posted by JFettig
I have used HSS, HSS TiN coated and Carbides, and Carbides have outdone all the above 10 times+. You will want 2 flute to cut copper, It has a higher chip capasity and less chance of clogging up.

I know blade uses HSS because he cannot find any carbide end mills, but he sure hasta be going through them fast. I know I do.


Jon

Thankie for the reply JFettig you have gave me some good info

Guess i,l go pick up a few more bits this week and start looking for a mill table and see if i can get this thing converted

[MMZ_TimeLord]

Keep in mind nOv1c3 that a drill press does not have the rigidity needed for high tolerences.

It will work for basics, but don't espect super accurate results.

I wish you good luck in your machining endeavors.

[nOv1c3]

Originally posted by MMZ_TimeLord
Keep in mind nOv1c3 that a drill press does not have the rigidity needed for high tolerences.

It will work for basics, but don't espect super accurate results.

I wish you good luck in your machining endeavors.

Thankie MMZ_TimeLord

I see some slop on the chuck and i havnt put a Dial indicator to check it yet but my guess is that i wont be doing any close tolerences with a 1/8 bit hehe

But this should get my feet wet and who knows if i get hooked i may sell the girlfreind and get a real mill

[BladeRunner]

Yeah It's horses for courses, so without trying to sound to negative, a pillar drill is just that........ and not a mill.

I know as I used a really horrid pillar drill with my first block making along with a very dead mini lathe x-y table. It was impossible to do any form of slot cutting due to vibration and the general crappiness of it all. In fact I got so pissed with it I started to find ways to make blocks with just hand tools as it was less annoying. Another thing is the chuck. a drill chuck wont be much good for milling as the bits will slip or move with any depth cut or load on the bit.

I may be a bit more tainted against using a pillar drill because mine was too crappy. You can make a mill of sorts with a pillar drill. and it will most likely be better than the milling machine you haven't got. Don't let it put you off block making, because it simply wont be a mill.......... decent mills cost a lot for good reason. They may look like pillar drills in the same way a domestic cat looks like a Panther....... when in truth they are very different animals

[nOv1c3]

Originally posted by BladeRunner
Yeah It's horses for courses, so without trying to sound to negative, a pillar drill is just that........ and not a mill.

I know as I used a really horrid pillar drill with my first block making along with a very dead mini lathe x-y table. It was impossible to do any form of slot cutting due to vibration and the general crappiness of it all. In fact I got so pissed with it I started to find ways to make blocks with just hand tools as it was less annoying. Another thing is the chuck. a drill chuck wont be much good for milling as the bits will slip or move with any depth cut or load on the bit.

I may be a bit more tainted against using a pillar drill because mine was too crappy. You can make a mill of sorts with a pillar drill. and it will most likely be better than the milling machine you haven't got. Don't let it put you off block making, because it simply wont be a mill.......... decent mills cost a lot for good reason. They may look like pillar drills in the same way a domestic cat looks like a Panther....... when in truth they are very different animals

lol @ pillar drill

Thankie for the reply BladeRunner

I see the limitation of the converted drillpress oops aka pillar drill hehe . Unless i come across a used and cheap mill on my travels around town ..I,m just gona have to give this a try ...and if all fails i wont be out much $

Thankie again for your reply BladeRunner

[BladeRunner]

Pillar Drill = Drill Press........ I guess we all have our own "isums" Americanisums & Englisihisums

like on a car, Bonnet = Hood, Wing = Fender, Boot = Trunk.

Sometimes you Yanks do go completely haywire with OUR language though, and call things by the totally wrong name........

With FOOTBALL for instance you should use your FEET and not your HANDS! if you are not going to call It HANDBALL

[pippin88]

Originally posted by BladeRunner
With FOOTBALL for instance you should use your FEET and not your HANDS! if you are not going to call It HANDBALL

No fecking way. That's soccer!

[BladeRunner]

I think you'll find "we" invented FOOTBALL , but not intending to get into a debate about it with someone from giant jumping rat land.........

[pippin88]

Originally posted by BladeRunner
I think you'll find "we" invented FOOTBALL , but not intending to get into a debate about it with someone from giant jumping rat land.........

I think you'll find you also invented Football (Meaning Rugby, the true football) and Cricket and look who's top now?

[BladeRunner]

Yes we are crap at all of the games we allegedly "invented". You're not German by any chance?, believe it or not I was joking hence the Smilies ........... enough off topic anyway.....

[ataxy]

great job man