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Unread 02-27-2003, 11:21 AM   #1
Mhiran
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Default Dehumidifer Size?

Just looking around Pinner Hardware Store and saw a 21 pint dehumidifier for £5. I was wondering will the 21pt one be big enough for some home made phase change cooling?
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Unread 02-27-2003, 03:46 PM   #2
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umm...maybe...isnt the pint size just the number of pints it can hold before it has to be emptied?
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Unread 02-27-2003, 03:59 PM   #3
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Hydrogen18 is correct. Pint size has nothing to do with the cooling capacity. But, you could look and check the compressor size. If it is 1/3hp or over, it would probably work. The 1/4 and 1/6th HP compressors may or may not, depending upon how the system is setup (compressor efficiency, refrigerant you choose, amount of insulation, etc...).

That's gut feel. But hey! If all else fails, you can have a really dry PC!
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Unread 02-27-2003, 06:42 PM   #4
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Pint size is usually proportional to cooling capacity.But from most of the dehumidifers I have seen, they have a/c compressor ranging right around 1/2hp.If you're making a direct die system out of this, it will perform very well.If your just making a quick waterchiler it will still work nicely.I would say around -20c liquid temps, maybe lower.
Considering how cheap it is, just buy it and try it.
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Unread 02-28-2003, 10:43 AM   #5
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Well I just went out and parted with the money. It had gone upto £10! ARGH! But I bought it regardless.
Experiments tomorrow.
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Unread 02-28-2003, 11:41 AM   #6
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There are 2 measurements with a dehumidifier

One is for the ablility to remove water from the air, ie 30 pints per day.

The other is the res capacity ie 21 pints.

You only care about the first. A 30 pint/day humdifier is around ~400 - 450w or a little over 1/2HP.
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Unread 02-28-2003, 11:27 PM   #7
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Yeah I was thinking he was giving the pt/day capacity, if it is res capacity then that doesn't even matter.
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Unread 03-03-2003, 10:39 AM   #8
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-20C is a resonable max to keep in mind. u shall be disappointed at how loud they are.
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Unread 03-03-2003, 01:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
u shall be disappointed at how loud they are
Here are a few things to help quiet it down (I am still in the process of building mine....

1) Use a single pole dimmer light switch on the fan motor. This will allow to to slow the fan down and be come pretty quiet.

2) Use 1" x 1/4" foam tape on all edges were the extrenal case meets the inside frame. This should get rid of any rattles.

3) insulate the inside of the case on the compressor/fan side to absorb noise

4) put the thing under you desk with the air flowing away from you.

With these mods, I am hoping for ~30 to 35db's.
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Unread 03-03-2003, 02:27 PM   #10
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YEAH RIGHT! Keep thinking that. Honestly, dehumidifiers suck ass. I am using mine as parts. They will break eventually (unless you run 20 computers using one dehumidifier then ur straight).
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Unread 03-03-2003, 10:11 PM   #11
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Quote:
YEAH RIGHT! Keep thinking that.
Did you try any of the noise reducing points I will be trying?

Another item to help is replace the control unit with one from a freezer. That way you can "dial" in the temp you want without having the compressor on all the time.

Quote:
They will break eventually (unless you run 20 computers using one dehumidifier then ur straight).
Not sure what you mean by this? 20 computers running off one compreesor will make it more reliable?? How did yours break down? Did you get a leak? Did you have a copper pipe rubbing against the steel? How old was yours before you got it? New? 20 years old?

All these things factor into the the equation. I have already installed my dimmer control on the fan and it is now just as quiet as my PC is already without the cover.
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Unread 03-03-2003, 10:24 PM   #12
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SonixOS

Just looked at the chiller on you web site. Look(ed) pretty good. Althought, being out in the open with a full load 10" fan would make it extremely noisy. Judging by the corrosion on the cooper, I believe this may have been an older unit. Did the contoller you have cycle the unit on/off as required?
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Unread 03-04-2003, 12:05 AM   #13
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no.
It was a brand new unit from Sears. I was dumb to use Methanol. Should've added anti corrosive shiet. Last time i fired it i used Zerex. Still have the stuff. Its just laying there now...


Yeah go try all that stuff and tell me what you get. You will be disappointed. I'm speaking from experience.

"Dialing" the temperature you want wont make it any better.

It didnt break. I just quit using it. I got a new compressor and I am going to throw the old one away. I'm too lazy to get some R22 though.
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Unread 03-04-2003, 12:58 AM   #14
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They are that loud, I guess you have sensitive ears.Sure they aren't quiet, but you can still be in the same room with them.

They don't suckass, you can get them very cheap and they chill fairly well.If you wan't to do some work then it would work great as a direct die system.I used a compressor that is used in a dehumidifer(from a small window a/c unit, same compressors) and got about -32c cpu temps(on die) running my xp1600@1.91ghz 1.85v).It is a bit noisy, but not too bad.

You don't need to use R22, I used R290(propane) in mine and got nice temps with a hollow evaporator that cost maybe 8 dollars.(need the motherboard to be flat)
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Unread 03-04-2003, 09:07 AM   #15
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Quote:
They don't suckass, you can get them very cheap and they chill fairly well
I agree .... I hope.

I am not after REALLY extreme temps. If I can keep my water to around -10c and the CPU at +5c, I would probably be very happy.

I do not have the knowledge/tools to change the coolant so I am going to stick to R134a that is in there already. Also, my compressor is rated around 6.5 amps. It would suck to much power if left on all the time.
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Unread 03-04-2003, 06:55 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by aenigma
They don't suckass, you can get them very cheap and they chill fairly well.If you wan't to do some work then it would work great as a direct die system.I used a compressor that is used in a dehumidifer(from a small window a/c unit, same compressors) and got about -32c cpu temps(on die) running my xp1600@1.91ghz 1.85v).It is a bit noisy, but not too bad.

You don't need to use R22, I used R290(propane) in mine and got nice temps with a hollow evaporator that cost maybe 8 dollars.(need the motherboard to be flat)
You used a compressor that is used in a dehumidifier??? You took the compressor from the A/C unit and put it in a dehumidifier? My friend if thats what you're saying then thats not using a dehumidifier. I'm talking about going to the store, buying one and just bending the pipes to get it to run. I can go out and buy a vapochill system and switch everything in it to make a cascade system, doesnt mean that the vapochill does that out of the box.


Ofcouse I dont need R22, who said I need a computer? Life is better with R22.
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Unread 03-04-2003, 07:23 PM   #17
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I used an a/c unit, which is very similar to a dehumidifer (a high temp refrigeration system). It works with no problems, they average about -20c liquid temps with the evap just dropped in a res.They use the same compressor as a dehumidifer.#Rotor has used many of them as well.

When I actually modified mine I changed the capillary, added a dryer and strainer, and made an evaporator(and other things such as using a hose for suction line and subcooling).But I have made waterchillers out of them as well without modifying them.
You say they suck ass, but why?They aren't that loud, and they get pretty cold.Did yours not get cold?
Aren't you the guy that was on phase-change.com talking like a homie?

Okay how is life better with R22?
Because it costs so much more than propane and doesn't perform that much better?
As far as availability and cost it just doesn't make any sense trying to get R22 when you have a cheap refrigerant that works almost as well that is very cheap.
If you can get R22 cheap then that is a good reason to get some.
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Unread 03-04-2003, 07:29 PM   #18
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do i sense some tension here.....
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Unread 03-04-2003, 07:39 PM   #19
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whats the deal with that?????


I got -19C without any modificiations. It SAWKS. Its going to break. I'm sure u know why it will eventually break. The application they say its intended for isnt for marketing purposes but shows how it is design as well. I'm sure u know what i'm talking about.
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Unread 03-05-2003, 04:06 AM   #20
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-19c "sawks"?
That isn't bad considering the system was most likely dirt cheap.
Just becuase it is designed for one thing doesn't mean it won't do the other without breaking.It hasn't broke yet has it?A problem would be liquid slugging, but you can prevent that easily enough by heating the suction line.
Now if you wan't to do something as simple as adding a bullet valve and letting a little bit of refrigerant out, it would have got maybe -35c to -40c and it wouldn't have any liquid slugging problems either.

Joe changed my title because I disagreed with Brian when he replied to hydrogen18.
It looked like he was giving him a hard time, but he wasn't.
Just trying to get him to read up about phase change before plunging into it.
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Unread 03-05-2003, 06:18 PM   #21
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<ModeratorHat=ON>
Just to be clear, the title got put there because of the manner in which aenigma responded to a moderator. It's fine to disagree with the moderators! Joe was trying to discourage (in a humorous way) the way that it was done. I have since requested that Joe to change the title back, but it hasn't gotten done yet.

I don't want any polite discussion to be discouraged, and I know that Joe does not either. Misunderstanding someone can easily lead to unintended hurt feelings and rude interaction (and that definitely includes us human moderators).

Take home message: We're all working towards a perfectly friendly and informative group forum, but we humans have a ways to go.
<ModeratorHat=OFF>

Now, having said that, -19C surely isn't bad! Last I checked, that may be better than most heatsink or even waterblocks.

As for slugging, wouldn't it be possible to add a TXV (thermal expansion valve)? Yes, most TXV's are designed for much higher loads, but you could create a higher heat load by letting extra heat into the chiller loop after the evaporator and before the TXV superheat sensor. Cool the interior air to the case, for example. Alternatively, would a short length of capillary tube after the TXV help reduce valve flutter by creating a base restriction level?
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Unread 03-05-2003, 08:36 PM   #22
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The problem isnt in the slugging. Its what causes the slugging. All dehumidifiers are rated for high temp application. Therefore they were meant to be used in HIGH TEMPERATURE APPLICATION. All that means is that it can remove a huge load of heat but it can not cool it that well. The thing is that the internals werent meant to be used in such system. I really dont want to explain it and I would care less if you all thought that dehuimdifiers are good. But the result is that the piston will deteriorate and break. I'll try to find a link online that explains it to you.
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Unread 03-06-2003, 02:10 AM   #23
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Brian256:
Yeah I know why he did it, I wasn't bad mouthing him for it or anything.

SonixOS:
The only problem would be liquid slugging(system is charged to handle a high load, and at low load liquid returns to the compressor) which can cause alot of problems because the piston can't compress liquid.The piston could break from that(most likely valves), but if you make sure no liquid is returning nothing will happen to the compressor.

If you can't explain to me why something like that would happen, I am led to believe you don't know yourself.Saying you don't feel like telling me is a good indication that you don't know.Usually when you aren't 100% sure, it is best not to act like you know.
That was not meant as a flame by the way.
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Unread 03-06-2003, 06:41 AM   #24
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Quote:
The only problem would be liquid slugging
aenigma

How would one know that this is happening?

I have fininshed removing all the Dehumidifer control and installed my dimmer light switch and freezer temp controller. I did a little testing with no water and the freezer contoller kept the coils frosty.

I lowered the setting and it came on for ~10 minutes, but I was getting frost on the compressor size of the return pipe... even over the insulation. I am sure that when I have 15L of water/ant-freeze, OC'ed CPU, OC'ed GPU, Chipset, and 2 ViaAqua 1300 pumps, I should have enough of a heat load????

Here are my cal's for heat
2.66 Intel OC'ed to 3.1+ ----> 80w
Radeon 9700 OC'ed ---------> 40w
ChipSet ------------------------> 15w
2 x pumps ---------------------> 30w

Total 165w ..... sound reasonable anyone?
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Unread 03-06-2003, 11:55 AM   #25
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165W of heat load is a start, remember. You will probably have a significant load coming from insulation leaks as well. In other words, work with 165W as your lower bound. I'll be honest and admit that I don't even have a decent ballpark figure to estimate the amount of heat leaking into your system though.

Also, the conversion factor from Watts to BTUs is 3.41. Each Watt is 3.41 BTU/hr (a Watt is a measure of power (over time), and a BTU is an instantaneous measure of energy).
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