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Unread 10-21-2005, 06:03 AM   #1
Jag
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Default Dual DDC-Case

Well it's an attempt to put two Laing's together in serial.
The whole process is described in a German Forum (www.kaltmacher.de).

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Unread 10-21-2005, 03:16 PM   #2
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Don't fully understand the point of it. Those pumps are like $75-$80 a piece. Why not just buy 1 pump of equal performance (and size) of the two combined for $80?
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Unread 10-21-2005, 05:03 PM   #3
Kemist
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What pump is comparable for the price? That top isnt modded, so this post is somewhat moot, but 2 1/2" modded ddc's in series is a great setup: Low overall heat dump, high head ~26-24ft iirc, good overall flow ~190gph, and quiet.

Closest thing is an iwaki z and those are 180$ not including a relay ki. An md-20 is also nice but even more expensive.
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Unread 10-21-2005, 05:49 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemist
What pump is comparable for the price? That top isnt modded, so this post is somewhat moot, but 2 1/2" modded ddc's in series is a great setup: Low overall heat dump, high head ~26-24ft iirc, good overall flow ~190gph, and quiet.

Closest thing is an iwaki z and those are 180$ not including a relay ki. An md-20 is also nice but even more expensive.
I disagree. The temp difference between two DDC's and one Danger Den D5 will be hardly worth twice as much. You are talking less than a C difference if I read Cathars posts on the subject correctly. Let's see some REAL numbers that this duel config is actually worth it?
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Unread 10-21-2005, 09:11 PM   #5
Kemist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee
I disagree. The temp difference between two DDC's and one Danger Den D5 will be hardly worth twice as much. You are talking less than a C difference if I read Cathars posts on the subject correctly. Let's see some REAL numbers that this duel config is actually worth it?
Fair enough, then one 1/2 modded ddc is better than a D5 http://systemcooling.com/mcp350_mod-06.html
ddc beats a D4 there. Even though its a D4 its still pretty comparable to the D5. D5 has slightly higher head/flow so might be slightly ahead of the ddc with that system, but the ddc still has lower heat dump and is quieter. Also with a more restrictive higher performance system (storm instead of rbx, gpu block included) the ddc should pull ahead due to higher head.

For the hardcore cooling freaks though, the ones who really want that last degree, two of these pumps in series (with 1/2" mod) is a good deal and is comparable to the rd-20/md-20z
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Unread 10-21-2005, 09:50 PM   #6
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Read Cathars post here: http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...5&page=1&pp=25

Note the very small increase in performance.
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Unread 10-21-2005, 10:18 PM   #7
Kemist
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Ive read that before, i understand what you are saying, regardless a single 1/2" modded ddc is better than a D5. And despite the small difference in temp 2 1/2" modded ddcs are a (relatively) good value if youre looking for highest performance. Two would have similar heat dump to a D5 but much, much higher head. Also, the results are using older blocks, cpu's etc. Newer blocks with newer hotter procs, and newer better rads, would produce a larger delta, a loop with multiple blocks would as well. I agree with you on the value front (on a single block loop) one pump is sufficient.
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Unread 10-21-2005, 10:29 PM   #8
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or, for that same price, why not get dual 50zs at 13.8 volts and have pretty much the best thing possible?
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Unread 10-21-2005, 10:41 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemist
Ive read that before, i understand what you are saying, regardless a single 1/2" modded ddc is better than a D5. And despite the small difference in temp 2 1/2" modded ddcs are a (relatively) good value if youre looking for highest performance. Two would have similar heat dump to a D5 but much, much higher head. Also, the results are using older blocks, cpu's etc. Newer blocks with newer hotter procs, and newer better rads, would produce a larger delta, a loop with multiple blocks would as well. I agree with you on the value front (on a single block loop) one pump is sufficient.
Block count is not to relevant. Adding 2 more blocks to the loop isn't going to change things much. If you have 3GPM with 1 block, 2GPM with 2 blocks and 1GPM with 3 blocks your temp difference will only be about 1-3C. And thats assuming 1GPM loss per block which shouldn't be the case. So you are looking at about a 1-4C warmer running comp with sticking with one $75 pump as opposed to spending $150 for 2 DDC's and whatever the mod cost. 3-4C is nothing in reality. IMO certainly not worth the extra cost.

Anyway I am much more practical than many enthusiests. Nothing wrong with hooking those pumps up in series and the guy looks to have done a pretty good job doing it. Would prefer Delrin though for a production unit.
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Unread 10-21-2005, 10:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloody_Sorcerer
or, for that same price, why not get dual 50zs at 13.8 volts and have pretty much the best thing possible?
modded ddc's at 13.8 would beat dual 50z's as well. They have higher head, and modded have similar flow to 50zs

modded ddc beating 50z with low restriction system (would beat it more with high restriction):
http://systemcooling.com/mcp350_mod-05.html

unmodded head height: http://www.systemcooling.com/images/...image18big.jpg

modded head height:
http://www.systemcooling.com/images/...image10big.gif

ddc @ 13.5:
http://www.lainginc.com/DDC_Series.htm
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Unread 10-21-2005, 11:43 PM   #11
ricecrispi
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The idea of the systemcooling mod is to improve performance by 1-2 degree C by a simple $5 mod. DDC lacks flow rate and the mod on the DDC would give it extra flow rate. This gives it the same performance as a DD5 or 150z. DDC biggest asset is low noise for performance. Mod makes it untouchable in that department.

With the mod you would get the same performance as that dual DDC setup but it cost extra $80 and cost of that plexitop= $40 (estimate). There is a single pump plexitop with the the straight outlet. Looks better than the $5 mod and you get the same performance.


BTW. Most people don't have setups restrictive enough to benefit from running at 13.5 V's or dual pump setups.
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Unread 10-22-2005, 01:41 AM   #12
Ls7corvete
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemist
Fair enough, then one 1/2 modded ddc is better than a D5 http://systemcooling.com/mcp350_mod-06.html
ddc beats a D4 there. Even though its a D4 its still pretty comparable to the D5. D5 has slightly higher head/flow so might be slightly ahead of the ddc with that system, but the ddc still has lower heat dump and is quieter. Also with a more restrictive higher performance system (storm instead of rbx, gpu block included) the ddc should pull ahead due to higher head.

For the hardcore cooling freaks though, the ones who really want that last degree, two of these pumps in series (with 1/2" mod) is a good deal and is comparable to the rd-20/md-20z
I agree with you on this being a waste of money but I think the number of blocks is very relavent.

As you know the perfomance curve is not linear so decreases in flow can have much larger effects than increasing.

ie, you see little difference from adding pumps but a big diff from adding restrictions. Lots of people going SLI these days.

Of coarse when you got 3-4 processing units dumping heat the low heat output of these pumps doesnt make seem so important anymore.
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Unread 10-22-2005, 07:01 AM   #13
Jag
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[
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Unread 10-22-2005, 11:22 AM   #14
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Chart jacked from http://www.cooling-masters.com/articles-33-9.html
Attached Images
File Type: png courbes_pompes.png (29.9 KB, 25 views)
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Unread 10-22-2005, 02:47 PM   #15
BillA
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has anyone run a high-end WCing system with both a D5 and a DDC ?
try it with an Apex kit
report back please

now; put the DDCs in series, then in parallel
Lee's mod is the best bet
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Unread 10-22-2005, 03:02 PM   #16
bobo5195
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Having multipul impellers on a pump is a great way to increase performance and is very common (thought its normally pumps on the same axle). Not that i know much about specific wc stuff but those pumps look pretty pathetic anyway. Some one should produce an ultra restrictive wb to go along with it.
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Unread 10-22-2005, 08:17 PM   #17
ricecrispi
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Not eveyone has an extra DDC laying around to put in series. If they did i'd be very very jealous.

I seriously doubt you need some stronger than a the $5 mod DDC mod. Gives you same performance of DD5 if not better. I beat it's a lot better on the ears.
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Unread 10-23-2005, 12:48 AM   #18
flatline
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ppl still blinging up dcc's hu?


"bigger barbs do not equate to more flow - just bigger barbs" unregistered


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Unread 10-23-2005, 11:04 AM   #19
BillA
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context ?
I have said almost everything at one time or another, where is that snippet from ?

discussing performance is "blinging" ?
pick a better word
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Unread 10-23-2005, 01:35 PM   #20
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http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...7&page=9&pp=25


my post #213
your post #214

:shrug:
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Unread 10-23-2005, 01:40 PM   #21
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suggest reading more carefully:
1/2" barbs in an Alphacool top

get it now ?
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Unread 10-23-2005, 01:47 PM   #22
flatline
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"if lang offerd a new top with 1/2 barbs" is lang alfa cool? it was suposed to be amuseing i can only asume your STILL 2 grumpy to joke with
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Unread 10-23-2005, 01:56 PM   #23
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LOL, well even if they put 1/2" barbs on the DDC it wouldn't do any good unless they modded it like shown above. I would venture to guess that will not happen.
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Unread 10-24-2005, 04:17 AM   #24
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bigger barbs do not equate to more flow - just bigger barbs

Is that from a chinese fortune cookie?
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Unread 10-24-2005, 05:00 AM   #25
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it will be out in 2-3 weeks
cant wait to get one, already got dual DDC ready
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