Troll Alert: Beware of LiquidRulez - Page 2

pHaestus · 08-20-2003, 12:37 PM

Shit Bill looks like our days may be numbered at this forum too.

BillA · 08-20-2003, 12:41 PM

was thinking just the same, bummer
lowest common denominator kinda thing

anyone with a lead on a technically driven forum ?

pHaestus · 08-20-2003, 12:43 PM

Nah you are going the wrong direction. We just need a forum full of babe of the day threads and then we can talk technical via PMs.

BillA · 08-20-2003, 12:46 PM

ah, the perspective afforded by higher education is immediatly apparent
I stand corrected

ok, babe of the day forums ?
(light porn please)

pHaestus · 08-20-2003, 12:51 PM

I need to get a job at Swiftech if you guys can surf light porn during business hours

Another idea: How about we make a separate kiddie forum here where things are all sunshine and rainbows and no one ever raises their voice? And then we can safely talk as usual everywhere else? We'll have to keep it quiet during nap time of course.

I like that one better. A separate technical forum is conceding that the majority of readers are incapable of following the discussion. I don't think that is the case here.

BillA · 08-20-2003, 12:56 PM

and again, you are correct - most here understand just fine

ahem,
may I propose that Ben be the moderator ?
(and limit his moderation to the sunshine forum exclusively)

have the time between readings

bigben2k · 08-20-2003, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by unregistered
ah yes, of what use is power if not used
Ben, your first post as a mod is typical

my post was based on deductive reasoning (I know, quite foreign to you)
and it was indeed based on 'facts'
please do re-read my previous post
-> you need to get your facts straight

joemac's post was not factual ?
pHaestus' post was not factual ?
bah

Bill, you will always hold a special place in my heart, so I'm not going to moderate anything you say: you do well all on your own.

(exception: the name and e-mail, but I'll restore them, as I stated, if the problem still exists)

What we have really here, is one side of the story, taken public by Michael. Is it fact? I don't know.

Did Joe send the blocks? Did Michael receive them? Did they get lost? I don't know.

Did Michael e-mail LR, like he said he did, or is Joe right when he claims to not have received anything? I dunno.

I'll agree that the timing of the resolution stinks, but on a personal note, I've also corresponded with LR for the past few months, and all I can say is that it would be "out of character" for him to do what Michael claims that he did (i.e. being trolled).

We all hate trolls, I think that that's pretty clear. Some of us know what to do when we're being trolled, but it still stands that it has to be proved that "trolling" occured.

You're otherwise correct, in that all comments were based on the facts, as they were presented, but without the whole story, there's a lot of room for speculation, and I just know that it's going to lead to another flame thread, hence my comments, So I'll re-state:

please refrain from speculating as to what happened, and if I see any flaming going on, I'm locking this thread.

In the mean time, I'll extend an invitation to both Michael and Joe to PM or e-mail me with their version of the story. Obviously we have a resolution (at least apparently), but obviously something went bad in the deal, and if both parties want my help in closing this problem once and for all, I'll volunteer my time.

joemac · 08-20-2003, 03:26 PM

That’s right Bill A my thoughts were just that my thoughts base on deductive reasoning on what has been said. I only made suggestion to try to avoid this in the future but that is impossible. Maybe a rating system like *bay would help. As for Ben comment on this being between LiquidRulez and MichaelMuck that is true but why post in a forum like this if you don’t want others involved? Maybe next time the poster can post screen shots of the email, paypal you other proof

BillA · 08-20-2003, 03:30 PM

I agree, its all pHaestus' fault
jeez . . . .

pHaestus · 08-20-2003, 03:34 PM

Ok dammit back to plan 1:

http://www.eastcoastsurf.com/misc/reefcomp/index.html

(NWS perhaps but no blatant nudity)

BillA · 08-20-2003, 03:45 PM

to inspire sodomy
whee

airspirit · 08-20-2003, 04:16 PM

Actually, I propose we start a subforum in FS/FT simply for reporting on people for better or worse. This would allow people to do a name search prior to a purchase to see if there were problems one way (seller) or another (buyer). Nobody wants to pay for a no-show product, and nobody wants to sell to a problem buyer. This, combined with rating systems at other sites that are frequented (oc-forums, ebay, etc) could help build credibility for a buyer. It could also become mandatory for a seller to make a post ON THEMSELVES prior to posting a FS with any prior references to ensure that there is a place for people to post about their experiences with them. Then Ben would have a place to play referee, people would have a place to police themselves, and we can all go back to looking at monstrous boobs in peace.

pHaestus · 08-20-2003, 04:55 PM

I don't think that is necessarily needed. Better to just use www.heatware.com for reference needs. We DO need a sticky in the FS/FT forum for traders to avoid. I guess that this is where things get sticky since in this case the issue was properly resolved. I personally wouldn't buy anything from LiquidRulez after reading this thread, but does Procooling open ourselves up to a frivolous lawsuit by naming him as a "bad trader" who should be avoided?

Maybe the easiest way to avoid any potential problems is to just have a sticky which links to all the threads where problems are reported?

airspirit · 08-20-2003, 05:43 PM

That would work as well. The reason I thought a forum type system would work is because then people could make their own decisions on a situation. This one, for example, could lean either way so who are we to judge? Leave it to the consumer to moderate their own risks. A sticky would do the same thing, in the end.

LiquidRulez · 08-23-2003, 03:24 AM

" does Procooling open ourselves up to a frivolous lawsuit by naming him as a "bad trader" who should be avoided?"

What do you think?

You forgot the other partipants being open too.

This isnt going to go away....because I did NOTHING to deserve this slaughter and personal attack...
Nor do I DESERVE to have my personal information publically available in a forum that is supposed to be moderated by procooling for content before it ever hits a browser window on another persons computer.

And go Ahead Bill and make some more useful statements...Ive got the money, if you have the time.

pHaestus · 08-23-2003, 03:30 AM

Liquidrulez:

Please file the papers by all means if you feel that you have a case against me. Be sure to pick up form STFU while you are at the courthouse.

BillA · 08-23-2003, 10:43 AM

alas you are correct LiquidRulez
I don't have the time to even begin to help you,
nor am I inclined to do so given your unwillingness to accept responsibility for your actions

so you are going to sue Joe Kelly eh ?
-> for 'failure to moderate' ?
lol

jaydee · 08-23-2003, 10:57 AM

Pretty pathetic guys. You have no evidence what-so-ever except some guy saying he got gipped. I can say that about any of you at anytime. Would you want your info immediatly spammed around because of it with no justification except the word of someone you know nothing about? Is this how this will be handled here? Guilty no matter what just because some guy says so?

LiquidRulzs was apart of this forum and looked up to by some of us. Pretty pathetic to just hang him without some digging first. I wouldn't come back here either after this show. I will never do any trading/buying/selling again here for sure. I hang myself enough as it is.

bigben2k · 08-23-2003, 12:05 PM

Thank you JD, that was my point exactly.

I, just like Bill, pHaestus and maybe JD, also received a PM from LiquidRulez, with his side of the story.

Having corresponded with LiquidRulez for the past few months, I tend to believe his side, but before I pass judgement, I'd still like to hear from Michael, who hasn't responded to my invitation.

I think that it's clear that this incident has upset a few of us, including me, and I'm going to advise all of us to apply some "understanding", as some words come out that may be presented in anger/frustration.

Bill: for some reason, you only seem to be able to add fuel to the fire, and I have yet to see you acknowledge that you don't know the details of the whole transaction. Obviously responsability has been taken, and there is a resolution (if Michael would confirm it), so unless you're talking about something else, I just don't get your last post. Frankly, I'm a little dissapointed, but I guess it goes both ways, right?

Otherwise, congratulations on hitting 900 posts...

BillA · 08-23-2003, 12:38 PM

jd
tighten your focus a bit
I'm getting ragged on because I put up his name and e-mail
you call this 'spamming' ? how about candor ?

is my name and e-mail a secret ?
get real, you seem to be defending him based on his word alone

look at what is known to be a fact:
- an agreement was reached between the 2 parties, a price fixed, and 50% pmt made
- after a period passed, with excuses for non/late delivery being made by the seller, the buyer was no longer able to get a response from the seller
- the seller had 'reasons' to 'explain' this lack of response
- the seller claims to have shipped the parts, the buyer claims to never have received anything
- and the buyer claims to not have received a request for the balance due, and obviously did not pay the balance due having - it is asserted - not received anything
- the seller returned the initial deposit

case closed one would think – except that the seller remains on the offensive ??

do you remember Chip Eckert ?
do you remember Una ?
a diddle by non-delivery is not acceptable

my suspicion is that the seller was ignoring a situation of his making,
and when shown up chose a good offense as the best defense

no Ben, I received no PM (sweeping the details under the rug ?)
ah, a secret defense to enlist supporters
I doubt your qualifications as an arbiter Ben, the ability to reason critically is crucial to such
-> an example of this deficit is the inability to understand my previous post - did you attempt to correlate it to that of the sellers ?

pHaestus · 08-23-2003, 12:40 PM

nope no PMs from anyone.

Anyone who sells things online to people they don't know gets insurance and delivery confirmation or else they run the risk of eating the cost of the stuff. That's just the etiquette of selling hardware in forums (and I would presume on ebay). If you are a small mfgr then ship with a method that has tracking. Pretty simple, really.

bigben2k · 08-23-2003, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pHaestus
nope no PMs from anyone.

Anyone who sells things online to people they don't know gets insurance and delivery confirmation or else they run the risk of eating the cost of the stuff. That's just the etiquette of selling hardware in forums (and I would presume on ebay). If you are a small mfgr then ship with a method that has tracking. Pretty simple, really.

I think that that says it all, really. Thank you.

Bill: I'm not going to reveal what LR shared with me to you, unless he tells me it's OK. Suffice it to say that there's a lot more to the story than what has been presented here, and some of the "facts" may be "somewhat accurate", as presented by Michael.

Personally, I tend to give more credit to a story that presents both the negative and the positive aspects. I also do my best not to pass judgement until I've heard both sides of a story either, and unfortunately that usually involves a long series of back-and-forth exchanges of questions.

Trying to get your count up to 1'000 ?!?

jaydee · 08-23-2003, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by unregistered
jd
tighten your focus a bit
I'm getting ragged on because I put up his name and e-mail
you call this 'spamming' ? how about candor ?

is my name and e-mail a secret ?
get real, you seem to be defending him based on his word alone

look at what is known to be a fact:
- an agreement was reached between the 2 parties, a price fixed, and 50% pmt made
- after a period passed, with excuses for non/late delivery being made by the seller, the buyer was no longer able to get a response from the seller
- the seller had 'reasons' to 'explain' this lack of response
- the seller claims to have shipped the parts, the buyer claims to never have received anything
- and the buyer claims to not have received a request for the balance due, and obviously did not pay the balance due having - it is asserted - not received anything
- the seller returned the initial deposit

case closed one would think – except that the seller remains on the offensive ??

do you remember Chip Eckert ?
do you remember Una ?
a diddle by non-delivery is not acceptable

my suspicion is that the seller was ignoring a situation of his making,
and when shown up chose a good offense as the best defense

no Ben, I received no PM (sweeping the details under the rug ?)
ah, a secret defense to enlist supporters
I doubt your qualifications as an arbiter Ben, the ability to reason critically is crucial to such
-> an example of this deficit is the inability to understand my previous post - did you attempt to correlate it to that of the sellers ?

Yes I am basing it on his word alone as I have e-mailed him and asked his side of the story and he gave it. I also have talked with him in these forums, my forums, and through e-mails before for a long time now. I have NO reason not to take his word for it. He is not interested in ripping someone off for $90 as that is a drop in the well for him. He got $1,000's just in equipment alone. He is not going to intentionally do anything to ruin his name around the web. From what he says and what I see in another thread here Michael is the majority of this whole problem. Ever get one of the customers that is just never satisfied no matter how much shit they drag you through?

Sure we might be making to big a deal about the name and e-mail as we can find that and more on the net, but you guys shouldn't be so quick to jump on someone over this and make a judgment instanlty that the complainer is 100% right and just. I hate getting ripped off as much as anyone as I just got ripped off on e-bay for a dead A7V333. Shit happens. Liquid got in a situation he regrets and has paid his dues and then some. We shouldn't be the judge, jury, and executioner with only a small percentage of evidence. Certainly shouldn't be passing around info. The guy abviously knows LiquidRulez name and e-mail addy as he claims to have all of LiquidRulez e-mails. Is there really a need for the rest of the world to?

Good thing the justice system doesn't work like this. We would have been fried by now.

Joe · 08-23-2003, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LiquidRulez
Micheal,
This seems to be a standard at Procooling (pointing fingers and making huge @ssumptions solely based on dribble and not FACT),.........this is my sole reason for not visiting here at Procooling much anymore, among many .......

K Bye then, thanks for stopping bye.... ass snacker ... we dont need Trolls here anyway. Bye now.

pHaestus · 08-23-2003, 01:16 PM

The justice system (small claims court) DOES work just like this jaydee. No judges like Ben in the real world (or small claims court would have a backlog of millennia). Here's how it would go in court (no lawyers most likely)

Michael Muck vs. Liquidrulez...you may be seated

judge: plaintiff could you tell me what happened quickly?

MM: I made arrangements to buy an item online. It was agreed that I would pay $45 up front and the remaning $45 when it was delivered. I never got my stuff after several months and I want my money back.

Judge: OK LR what's your side?

LR: I have composed a summary that I am going to pass to you in private summarizing my dealings with this guy, judge. It isn't for public consumption though.

Judge: Unacceptable. Did you ship the item?

LR: Of course I did

Judge: Where's the receipt and tracking info and proof?

LR: umm I don't have any

Judge: Judgement for the plaintiff for $45 next case.

08-20-2003, 03:26 PM	#33
joemac Cooling Savant Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Dallas Posts: 339	That’s right Bill A my thoughts were just that my thoughts base on deductive reasoning on what has been said. I only made suggestion to try to avoid this in the future but that is impossible. Maybe a rating system like bay would help. As for Ben comment on this being between LiquidRulez and MichaelMuck that is true but why post in a forum like this if you don’t want others involved? Maybe next time the poster can post screen shots of the email, paypal you other proof Last edited by joemac; 08-20-2003 at 05:41 PM.*

08-20-2003, 04:16 PM	#37
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	Actually, I propose we start a subforum in FS/FT simply for reporting on people for better or worse. This would allow people to do a name search prior to a purchase to see if there were problems one way (seller) or another (buyer). Nobody wants to pay for a no-show product, and nobody wants to sell to a problem buyer. This, combined with rating systems at other sites that are frequented (oc-forums, ebay, etc) could help build credibility for a buyer. It could also become mandatory for a seller to make a post ON THEMSELVES prior to posting a FS with any prior references to ensure that there is a place for people to post about their experiences with them. Then Ben would have a place to play referee, people would have a place to police themselves, and we can all go back to looking at monstrous boobs in peace. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

08-20-2003, 05:43 PM	#39
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	That would work as well. The reason I thought a forum type system would work is because then people could make their own decisions on a situation. This one, for example, could lean either way so who are we to judge? Leave it to the consumer to moderate their own risks. A sticky would do the same thing, in the end. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

08-23-2003, 03:24 AM	#40
LiquidRulez Cooling Savant Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In Hell Posts: 322	" does Procooling open ourselves up to a frivolous lawsuit by naming him as a "bad trader" who should be avoided?" What do you think? You forgot the other partipants being open too. This isnt going to go away....because I did NOTHING to deserve this slaughter and personal attack... Nor do I DESERVE to have my personal information publically available in a forum that is supposed to be moderated by procooling for content before it ever hits a browser window on another persons computer. And go Ahead Bill and make some more useful statements...Ive got the money, if you have the time. __________________ GOt H20 ?

08-23-2003, 12:05 PM	#44
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Thank you JD, that was my point exactly. I, just like Bill, pHaestus and maybe JD, also received a PM from LiquidRulez, with his side of the story. Having corresponded with LiquidRulez for the past few months, I tend to believe his side, but before I pass judgement, I'd still like to hear from Michael, who hasn't responded to my invitation. I think that it's clear that this incident has upset a few of us, including me, and I'm going to advise all of us to apply some "understanding", as some words come out that may be presented in anger/frustration. Bill: for some reason, you only seem to be able to add fuel to the fire, and I have yet to see you acknowledge that you don't know the details of the whole transaction. Obviously responsability has been taken, and there is a resolution (if Michael would confirm it), so unless you're talking about something else, I just don't get your last post. Frankly, I'm a little dissapointed, but I guess it goes both ways, right? Otherwise, congratulations on hitting 900 posts... __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

08-20-2003, 12:37 PM	#26
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	Shit Bill looks like our days may be numbered at this forum too.

08-20-2003, 12:41 PM	#27
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	was thinking just the same, bummer lowest common denominator kinda thing anyone with a lead on a technically driven forum ?

08-20-2003, 12:43 PM	#28
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	Nah you are going the wrong direction. We just need a forum full of babe of the day threads and then we can talk technical via PMs.

08-20-2003, 12:46 PM	#29
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	ah, the perspective afforded by higher education is immediatly apparent I stand corrected ok, babe of the day forums ? (light porn please)

08-20-2003, 12:51 PM	#30
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	I need to get a job at Swiftech if you guys can surf light porn during business hours Another idea: How about we make a separate kiddie forum here where things are all sunshine and rainbows and no one ever raises their voice? And then we can safely talk as usual everywhere else? We'll have to keep it quiet during nap time of course. I like that one better. A separate technical forum is conceding that the majority of readers are incapable of following the discussion. I don't think that is the case here.

08-20-2003, 12:56 PM	#31
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	and again, you are correct - most here understand just fine ahem, may I propose that Ben be the moderator ? (and limit his moderation to the sunshine forum exclusively) have the time between readings

08-20-2003, 03:30 PM	#34
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	I agree, its all pHaestus' fault jeez . . . .

08-20-2003, 03:34 PM	#35
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	Ok dammit back to plan 1: http://www.eastcoastsurf.com/misc/reefcomp/index.html (NWS perhaps but no blatant nudity)

08-20-2003, 03:45 PM	#36
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	to inspire sodomy whee

08-20-2003, 04:55 PM	#38
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	I don't think that is necessarily needed. Better to just use www.heatware.com for reference needs. We DO need a sticky in the FS/FT forum for traders to avoid. I guess that this is where things get sticky since in this case the issue was properly resolved. I personally wouldn't buy anything from LiquidRulez after reading this thread, but does Procooling open ourselves up to a frivolous lawsuit by naming him as a "bad trader" who should be avoided? Maybe the easiest way to avoid any potential problems is to just have a sticky which links to all the threads where problems are reported?

08-23-2003, 03:30 AM	#41
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	Liquidrulez: Please file the papers by all means if you feel that you have a case against me. Be sure to pick up form STFU while you are at the courthouse.

08-23-2003, 10:43 AM	#42
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	alas you are correct LiquidRulez I don't have the time to even begin to help you, nor am I inclined to do so given your unwillingness to accept responsibility for your actions so you are going to sue Joe Kelly eh ? -> for 'failure to moderate' ? lol

08-23-2003, 10:57 AM	#43
jaydee Put up or Shut Up Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 6,506	Pretty pathetic guys. You have no evidence what-so-ever except some guy saying he got gipped. I can say that about any of you at anytime. Would you want your info immediatly spammed around because of it with no justification except the word of someone you know nothing about? Is this how this will be handled here? Guilty no matter what just because some guy says so? LiquidRulzs was apart of this forum and looked up to by some of us. Pretty pathetic to just hang him without some digging first. I wouldn't come back here either after this show. I will never do any trading/buying/selling again here for sure. I hang myself enough as it is.

08-23-2003, 12:38 PM	#45
BillA CoolingWorks Tech Guy Formerly "Unregistered" Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Posts: 2,371.493,106 Posts: 4,440	jd tighten your focus a bit I'm getting ragged on because I put up his name and e-mail you call this 'spamming' ? how about candor ? is my name and e-mail a secret ? get real, you seem to be defending him based on his word alone look at what is known to be a fact: - an agreement was reached between the 2 parties, a price fixed, and 50% pmt made - after a period passed, with excuses for non/late delivery being made by the seller, the buyer was no longer able to get a response from the seller - the seller had 'reasons' to 'explain' this lack of response - the seller claims to have shipped the parts, the buyer claims to never have received anything - and the buyer claims to not have received a request for the balance due, and obviously did not pay the balance due having - it is asserted - not received anything - the seller returned the initial deposit case closed one would think – except that the seller remains on the offensive ?? do you remember Chip Eckert ? do you remember Una ? a diddle by non-delivery is not acceptable my suspicion is that the seller was ignoring a situation of his making, and when shown up chose a good offense as the best defense no Ben, I received no PM (sweeping the details under the rug ?) ah, a secret defense to enlist supporters I doubt your qualifications as an arbiter Ben, the ability to reason critically is crucial to such -> an example of this deficit is the inability to understand my previous post - did you attempt to correlate it to that of the sellers ?

08-23-2003, 12:40 PM	#46
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	nope no PMs from anyone. Anyone who sells things online to people they don't know gets insurance and delivery confirmation or else they run the risk of eating the cost of the stuff. That's just the etiquette of selling hardware in forums (and I would presume on ebay). If you are a small mfgr then ship with a method that has tracking. Pretty simple, really.

08-23-2003, 01:16 PM	#50
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	The justice system (small claims court) DOES work just like this jaydee. No judges like Ben in the real world (or small claims court would have a backlog of millennia). Here's how it would go in court (no lawyers most likely) Michael Muck vs. Liquidrulez...you may be seated judge: plaintiff could you tell me what happened quickly? MM: I made arrangements to buy an item online. It was agreed that I would pay $45 up front and the remaning $45 when it was delivered. I never got my stuff after several months and I want my money back. Judge: OK LR what's your side? LR: I have composed a summary that I am going to pass to you in private summarizing my dealings with this guy, judge. It isn't for public consumption though. Judge: Unacceptable. Did you ship the item? LR: Of course I did Judge: Where's the receipt and tracking info and proof? LR: umm I don't have any Judge: Judgement for the plaintiff for $45 next case.

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