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General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums.

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Unread 02-19-2003, 05:06 PM   #101
hara
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Last edited by hara; 02-22-2003 at 05:39 AM.
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Unread 02-19-2003, 05:35 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally posted by Balinju [/i]
jaydee116, we are going to use the squirrel wb because besides the simulation, we are going to include a computer, thats why in the begining we said that we have only one pc and we are going to simulate the heat source emitted by the other nine computers.
Ok, totally forgot about this. So what is this computer supposed to represent? If it is supposed to represent a working scaled down model. If so then you can make your simulator specs based on 9 of those computers (Or 10 as the titel describes :shrug: ). If it is a P3 1gig, then base your simulator on 9-10 P3 1gigs. That is the only way I can see the computer being anything worthwhile.
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I would very like to post a picture on how we are going to simulate the heat load, but it is quit difficult to draw, but anyway, hara or me will try to post one.
It doesn't have to be a drawing in ACAD. I just would like a general idea of what parts are going where. You can use MS paint and squares and circles for the items for all I care.

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We asked if steel caused battrey effect because be were going to use a steel box to enclose the heat sources there, I hope that we will manage to find 300W or something of the sort heat elements. If possible, these elements will be welded with the box.
If steel was good we would all be using steel water blocks. The rust and other crap from steel is going to be very bad. The water will turn orange and all kinds of crap flowing through the system. probably grind away the pumps empellor!. This certainly leads me to belive your ignorant, at least on this subject! This should be a lot easier to understand than amps and volts.

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Hope that this can clear your ideas. Sorry if we made you angry, but you had all rights to be
Not mad really. Just seems you guys keep going backwards instead of forwards. When is this project due?
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Unread 02-19-2003, 07:09 PM   #103
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i havent read the whole thread(i read the first 2 pages) but here is my opinion.

A) where I live, theres a good chance you would be heating the water 70% of the time by using an external radiator. My pc will not function without phase change cooling. It is simply too hot.

B) DO NOT LET THAT PUMP RUN DRY. It will burn up very quickly.

C) I dont think a well pump is meant for this. Its simply not what it was meant for. A well pump was meant to run without massive backpressure(caused by radiators, and especially waterblocks).

D) Refer to A. Ever thought about the fact that this wouldnt work in most parts of the world year round?

E) How much is this going to cost?

F) PVC is really cheap here. I can get 8 inch diameter at 8 ft for $15 here.

G) You cannot use anything but tap water in a bong. Remeber, it will be evaporating, and if it is indoors, water wetter/uv dye/antifreeze fumes wouldnt be good. The government is likely to come knocking on your door if you are found to be dumping large amounts of fumes like this outside.

H) Running tap water in a wcing system is BAD idea. Corrosion, algae growth, and other stuff you dont want. You will need to build a heat exchanger(basically a coil of pipe submerge in thermally conductive material, and the pipe connected to the water passing through the bong, and another coil of pipe in the same thermally conductive material with the coolant for the pcs in it).
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Unread 02-19-2003, 09:17 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally posted by hydrogen18
i havent read the whole thread(i read the first 2 pages) but here is my opinion.

....C) I dont think a well pump is meant for this. Its simply not what it was meant for. A well pump was meant to run without massive backpressure(caused by radiators, and especially waterblocks)....
You're way off on this one. A well pump is exactly designed for high head (lots of pressure). Think about what it has to do. Sitting 100+ feet below ground level pumping water up to the surface. So it must have 100+ feet of head to pump any water at all.
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Unread 02-19-2003, 09:21 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally posted by murray13
You're way off on this one. A well pump is exactly designed for high head (lots of pressure). Think about what it has to do. Sitting 100+ feet below ground level pumping water up to the surface. So it must have 100+ feet of head to pump any water at all.
Not exactly. A well pump sits ground level. A pipe is dropped down into the well. The pump sucks water up the pipe and out the outlet to the house or where ever.
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Unread 02-19-2003, 09:58 PM   #106
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When I lived on Property with a well the pump was in the well 300 feet down in the ground.
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Unread 02-20-2003, 07:13 AM   #107
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Quote:
If steel was good we would all be using steel water blocks.
I tried to convince my friend on this point but he is very stubborn! He thinks that the conductivity of steel is better than that of aluminium.

Anyways, how much time does it take for this water to turn orange?
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Unread 02-20-2003, 07:34 AM   #108
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Ok the written part of the project is due march 3 and the actual project a couple of weeks after.
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Unread 02-20-2003, 09:47 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally posted by hara
I tried to convince my friend on this point but he is very stubborn! He thinks that the conductivity of steel is better than that of aluminium.

Anyways, how much time does it take for this water to turn orange?
Depending on the conditions it can take 2hrs or 2 days. Steel rusts fast. I havn't quite figured out why water would be going through the heat source though?

I will look at the drawing a little more later. I got to get to work.
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Unread 02-20-2003, 10:06 AM   #110
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Irranga
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Unread 02-20-2003, 10:40 AM   #111
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How about stainless steel sheets?
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Unread 02-20-2003, 10:48 AM   #112
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Wait a second. If we would build a stainless steel box instead of a steel box and drill two holes in it to put the heat elements (not weld them, I currently have another idea, to fix them with the stainless steel box using threads, I will explain it later because now I have to go and do my homework). Would stainless steel rust? may people say that stainless steel does not rust, but just to convince myself.

Or otherwise, if we could get a galvinized steel box, do you think that the galvinisation will go away quickly and the think would rust anyway?

Thank You
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Unread 02-20-2003, 11:03 AM   #113
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this is the box i was refering to, hope you manage to understand.
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Unread 02-20-2003, 11:06 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally posted by FuzzyFace
When I lived on Property with a well the pump was in the well 300 feet down in the ground.
I grew up in the sticks, Everyone I know up there including all my family have wells. Pump sits in the well house and a pipe is dropped down to the water. From there the water is pumped into a holding tank and then distributed to where it needs to go.

Same for irrigation systems on the farms up there. The build a little building over a spot on the river and drop a pipe down to the water, or they rig up a movable pump on wheels so it can be pulled up when the water gets high or dropped back down when the water gets low. Pipe always goes to the water. Would be kinda dump to drop a pump down 300ft in to the well and then the well fill up over the pump ah? Not saying this isn't done, but it isn't an option where I grew up. Well water levels rise and drop to much up there.

I guess it may depend on the situation? Non the less it is irrelevant here. Either way the pump needs some good head pressure to either suck the water up the pipe OR push the water up the pipe.

Ahhh back to work...
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Unread 02-20-2003, 11:09 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally posted by Balinju
this is the box i was refering to, hope you manage to understand.
Ahhh, stainless steel. Should have said that before! Surely your not going to run the water directly through the heating elements?
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Unread 02-20-2003, 11:19 AM   #116
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Yeah, that's what be meant, a small cube with the heating element inside and water running through.
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Unread 02-20-2003, 12:18 PM   #117
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Let us fix the pump problem that arose in this thread some posts before this. The main difference between a well pump and the pump found in a custom water cooling pc is that you pump is of type circulation pump, while the pump that is used in the wells is called a pressure pump. Mainly the difference can be seen from the pump rating and from the impeller configuration.

Believe me that a pressure pump is what is needed here, we can't handle all the flow with just a circulation pump, remember that in reality, instead of the heating elements, there should sit another 9 pc's so forget about you circulation pump.

The pump that we are going to use "sprays" water with a pressure of 4.0 bars. That what makes the 50m head, maybe more than we necessarily need but we need one of these kinds of pumps.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I hope that I am not
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Unread 02-20-2003, 03:39 PM   #118
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How about this, use copper pipe, a tee at both ends capped. One end the cap would be threaded to accept a 2kW water heater element ( about $8 ). All you would have to do is insulate it. Water heater element is meant to be submerged in water, takes 120vac input, and if you can find a light dimmer that can handle 2kW...

Would that work for you?
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Unread 02-20-2003, 03:40 PM   #119
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Sorry...
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Unread 02-20-2003, 03:54 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally posted by murray13
How about this, use copper pipe, a tee at both ends capped. One end the cap would be threaded to accept a 2kW water heater element ( about $8 ). All you would have to do is insulate it. Water heater element is meant to be submerged in water, takes 120vac input, and if you can find a light dimmer that can handle 2kW...

Would that work for you?
Thats a pretty good idea. And that is what I was getting at when I said "surely your not going to run the water through the heating elements". Most elements are not made to work under water (that I know of anyway). This would certainly be a way to get around that. I like the copper tube idea aswell. Very interesting. I am still not conveinced that a 2000watt source of heat should be applied in one spot though. Especially with such a small area of water around it. But if the flow is fast enough it shouldn't matter I guess. I don't know, seems 2000watts in one area would do some serious damage. Thats is ALOT of heat.
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Unread 02-20-2003, 04:48 PM   #121
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jadee116, we are trying to find 2 heating elements of about 400W each instead of a one element of 2kw. I also said to my friend that 2kw in one place are a danger, however, it is more likely to find a dimmer switch that can handle 400W approx 1.8A since here in malta we run at 230V (not 120V like USA).
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Unread 02-20-2003, 05:15 PM   #122
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stainless steel rusts when heated

there are 2 types of pumps

A) the kind that sits on top of a piece of pipe descending into the ground around 200 ft(or more, ours was 200 ft)

B) the kind you drop down into the well with wires attached to it for power(allows for a smaller pump house, about a 2 and 1/2 foot cube)

also:

dont put water on the elements. why? unless you plan to direct die cool, you will not be able to submerge the heatsource in water.
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Unread 02-20-2003, 06:06 PM   #123
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Think this way, people use 2 or more 172 or 226 W pelts and cool them with just a big heater core. 2 172 W pelts can put 500 W of heat into the water.

You're going to have a much larger pump and more cooling capacity. Should be fine as long as you keep the flow up.

edit: Two 400 or 500 W elements, one from each end would work just fine. I was just trying to show how common items could be used.
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Unread 02-20-2003, 07:10 PM   #124
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A few years ago I lived in a places that had an electric hot water heater. The the heating elements just screw into the side of the hot water heater and then you plug the 120 volt line into the element. I believe the element is directly exposed to the water inside the hot water heater. I do not know what the wattage of the elements are, but you may want to investigate them (plumbing supply stores).
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Unread 02-20-2003, 08:13 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally posted by hydrogen18
stainless steel rusts when heated
At what temps are we talking about here? I am planning on using these on a setup I am building: http://www.colder.com/fl_series.cfm , and they use stainless steel springs. I would assume since these are meant to be submerged in liquid that they would not put something in there that rusts.

Thanks,

Brian W
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