non us citizen buying firearm

[PlawsWorth]

Anyone that happens to know a lot about firearms laws and stuff? What kind of paper work is needed for an European citizen to buy a pistol in the U.S. like a Glock 17 or H&K USP?

[iroc409]

i assume you're living in the us? not sure what the laws are, i'd imagine they don't make it particularly easy, especially if they think you may be leaving the US with aforementioned device (i.e. export).

best thing is to check the batf's site, http://www.atf.gov/

also, it may be easier to talk to someone on the phone. you should be able to find the local branch of the atf (in the town you're living, or purchaser is living). should be on the atf's site, or look in the phone book. i'd probably suggest calling the local atf.

although if you're not living in the US, and you're having a noncitizen purchasing it for you for export, i'd personally suggest probably steering clear of that.

also, steer clear of the glocks! yuck! the usp may be a few hundred bones more than a glock, but there's a reason. you get what you pay for.

[iroc409]

ok, maybe some more clarification that might help from the atf's firearm faq:

(B5) Are there certain persons who cannot legally receive or possess firearms? [Back]

Yes, a person who –

(1) Has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year;
(2) Is a fugitive from justice;
(3) Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance;
(4) Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to a mental institution;
(5) Is an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United states or an alien admitted to the United states under a nonimmigrant visa;
(6) Has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
(7) Having been a citizen of the United states, has renounced his or her 8citizenship;
(8) Is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner; or
(9) Has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence cannot lawfully receive, possess, ship, or transport a firearm. A person who is under indictment or information for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year cannot lawfully receive a firearm. Such person may continue to lawfully possess firearms obtained prior to the indictment or information. [18 U. S. C. 922( g) and (n), 27 CFR 178.32( a) and (b)]

and...

(A15) Q. May foreign visitors and other aliens legally in the United States purchase or possess firearms and ammunition while in the United States? [Back]


A. Nonimmigrant aliens generally are prohibited from possessing or receiving (purchasing) firearms and ammunition in the United States.

There are exceptions to this general prohibition. The exceptions are as follows:

1.

nonimmigrant aliens who possess a valid hunting license or permit lawfully issued by a State in the United States;
2.

nonimmigrant aliens entering the United States to participate in a competitive target shooting event or to display firearms at a sports or hunting trade show sponsored by a national, State, or local firearms trade organization devoted to the competitive use or other sporting use of firearms;
3.

certain diplomats;
4.

officials of foreign governments or distinguished foreign visitors so designated by the U.S. State Department;
5.

foreign law enforcement officers of friendly foreign governments entering the United States on official law enforcement business; and
6. persons who have received a waiver from the prohibition from the U.S. Attorney General.

Significantly, even if a nonimmigrant alien falls within one of these exceptions, the nonimmigrant alien CANNOT purchase a firearm from a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) unless he or she (1) has an alien number or admission number from the Immigration and Naturalization Service AND (2) can provide the FFL with documentation showing that he or she has resided in a State within the United States for 90 days prior to the firearms transaction.

(A16) Q. Typically, who are "nonimmigrant aliens?" [Back]

In large part, nonimmigrant aliens are persons traveling temporarily in the United States for business or pleasure, persons studying in the United States who maintain a foreign residence abroad, and certain foreign workers. Permanent resident aliens are NOT nonimmigrant aliens. (Permanent resident aliens often are referred to as people with "Green Cards").

(A17) Q. How do I obtain a waiver from the Attorney General? [Back]

You must contact the Department of Justice for information on that procedure. However, in order to even apply for the waiver you must have resided in the United States continuously for at least 180 days prior to submitting your application.

(A18) Q. I have a "green card" and have lived in Texas for several years. Am I prohibited from purchasing firearms and ammunition in Texas? [Back]

As long as you are not otherwise prohibited from purchasing or possessing firearms and ammunition (for example, a felon), Federal law does not prohibit you from purchasing or possessing firearms or ammunition. However, you will need to put your INS-issued alien number or admission number on the Form 4473. Moreover, you must make sure there are no State or local restrictions on such a purchase.

(A19) Q. I am a nonimmigrant alien. I purchased a firearm in this country in early 1998 after providing the Federal firearms dealer proof that I was in the United States legally and had resided in the State for more than 90 days. I was told that this transaction was legal then. Am I entitled to keep that firearm and any ammunition I have on hand? Is there a "grandfather" clause in the new regulations that would protect me from criminal liability?

Since October 21, 1998, when the Gun Control Act was amended to make nonimmigrant aliens a new category of prohibited persons, nonimmigrant aliens generally have not been able to possess firearms and ammunition in the United States. Our regulations simply implement this statutory prohibition. The law does not allow us to create a "grandfather clause" in our regulations. Therefore, unless you obtain a valid State hunting license or permit (or fall within one of the other exceptions), your possession of the firearm and ammunition is NOT legal.

hope that helps, call them if you have doubts.

[#Rotor]

So if you are a non US citizen in Alaska without a hunting license.... you are probably busy braking the law.

[PlawsWorth]

So if I, a non U.S. citizen get a hunting license their might be a chance of buying for example a H&K USP Match pistol?

[Joe]

why not spend the money you are going to spend on that pistol and buy a better PC!
hehehe

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by Joe

why not spend the money you are going to spend on that pistol and buy a better PC!
hehehe

Need something to shoot the PC with when it acts up!

[msv]

PlawsWorth, since You´re not a US citizen, I asume You´ll sooner or later "export" that H&K to another country. Isn´t it more interesting to have a valid license in the country You´re *importing* the gun to?
To get a target gun license in, say, Sweden (hrrm), all You need is:
1. Be at least 20 years old
2. Be an active member of a target shooting club for at least 6 months
3. Shoot straight (46 points out of 50)
4. Actively participate in shooting matches
You still may be denied a license if the local police thinks You´re not suitable.
regards
Mikael S.

[iroc409]

i don't think this was mentioned either, and it may be worth it, may not.

in the US, you have to be 18 to purchase a long gun, and 21 to purchase a handgun.

i'm not sure if it matters, however a usp match pistol is not considered a hunting pistol. if you get a hunting permit, they may restrict you to items considered useful for hunting.

yeah, i'm with msv... why don't you buy one on your own turf? wouldn't that be easier? i imagine the export of firearms isn't easy. and, according to the atf's site, the atf does not regulate the export of weapons, the department of state does. but i didn't see any real provisions on their for an individual to export, so i'm not sure how that works. and if you do take it home, i'm sure you'd still be governed to a good extent by the existing government that it sounds like you might be trying to circumvent

[iceheart]

As many other stupid questions this can be solved incredibly easily by using the web (And I have told Plawsworth all of this repeatedly, offline):

1. Plawsworth is Swedish
2. To get a weapon license in Sweden you must fullfill the requirements msv posted (Age limit is 18 however for most weapons).
3. The swedish police website VERY CLEARLY states on a page only two clicks away from the front page that ALL YOU NEED in order to import a weapon is that you have a VALID LICENSE for the weapon in question.

[JoeKamel]

You also need to remember that individual states have their own regulations concerning gun ownership. The easiest thing to do is make two phone calls. One to your local Federal Attorney General's office and the second to your State Attorney General's office. Explain to them where you live and they will tell you the rest. If you don't get someone who is helpful, just write them. They are legally bound to give you the 411 on your situation.

Do NOT call your local police department. I have asked officers at mine questions and it's 50/50 wether or not I get a straight answer.