New watercooling rig - troubleshoot me!

Alchemy · 11-05-2002, 04:53 PM

I've gone through two watercooling systems now.

The first one consisted of the following:

Rio 800 in a self-built tupperware reservoir
Case-mods-built 0.5 kg copper WB
UHAUL light duty transmission cooler (4 pass fin and tube radiator)
generic 3/8" tubing
generic low speed, ultra-quiet 80mm fans shrouded over radiator

Temperatures hovered around 55C at idle and went down to 51C when I replaced the fans with 120mm fans that moved about 70cfm and sounded like lawnmowers.

I was sort of dissatisfied with this temperature drop, and extremely unhappy with the pump, which was loud as all hell.

Like an idiot, I bid on a Black Ice Extreme kit on Ebay and won the damn thing. I was impressed with the res/pump, as it was extremely quiet. The block, on the other hand, was about as ugly as I expected it to be - machining marks all over the base. Good retaining mechanism, though.

The radiator looks nice, but it's about half the size of the old one and my quiet but dinky 80mm fans taped in series can't push anything but a breath of air through it. It's much quieter than before, but still not quiet enough to my liking.

Because of piss-poor air flow, I'm getting idle temp readings of around 59C.

I ordered a cheap fanbus off pcmods, so with that I might take these 120mm demons and stick them on either side of the rad. Otherwise, I might be forced to switch out the BIX rad for my old one. Even then, I might not get enough improvement.

The <i>smart</i> thing would have been to replace the pump/res earlier and stayed happy with the system as it was.

I use this computer for pretty much everything, so I can't afford to shut it down again to replace anything in the cooling line, at least not for a while. For now, I plan to see how much I can improve the airflow across the rad without making my ears bleed.

So, who has recommendations for fans balancing high air flow, good pressure, and low sound?

Alchemy

jtroutma · 11-05-2002, 05:02 PM

I think we could use a few more details...

I will be the first one to say that those are REALLY high temps for a water cooling kit so there is something up there!

How do you have your system layed out? What chip are you cooling and what is the current clock speed? How much are you willing to spend? What is your "goal" temp? What block are you currently using? etc etc etc.

We will be more than happy to help you out, just need more info.

bigben2k · 11-05-2002, 05:32 PM

Let's add some more info:
Rio pump

Max head: 5 feet
flow @0: 211 gph
Power: 12 Watts
(not too shabby!)

U-Haul tranny coolers here
(Not bad!)

The first thing to check is if the block is mounted properly. The application of the Arctic Silver (or other thermal paste) is the biggest factor. Normally, you'd only apply a razor thin layer on the CPU core, and the block.

You mentionned that the pump is buzzing, and that's due to a high flow restriction:

1-fix the impeller. (run search here, same as for the Eheim 1048)

2-too much pressure, switch to 1/2 tubing. Doesn't this pump have 1/2 inlet/outlet?

For fan, I'll be using a blower, instead of an axial fan. I'll post pics when I have it.

All in all, it's all a little more involved than you might like, but hey, it's a watercooler...

airspirit · 11-05-2002, 05:38 PM

Lap your waterblock to 1200 grit. Clean processor die. Apply tiny amt of AS3 (only enough to make it sparkle) on both proc and bloc. Mate. Get 5C-10C better. Dump Rio shite pump. Get a Danner 350 GPH online for $40 USD. Run it inline. Ooh and ah as it runs quiet. Push/pull with your fans at 7V. Watch your temps go down to 45C or below. Add Hyperlube or WW to your mix in 1 tbsp/Qt, watch your temps drop more.

I did the same thing. I recognized that my Via Aqua 1300 was a POS and canned it after 20 minutes of testing. My fans had to be bumped to 12V before I got decent temps, though (it made a 4C difference on my BIXr2).

If all else fails, drop your CPU in a bucket of chilled mineral oil. That'll do it for you.

gmat · 11-05-2002, 05:42 PM

4-pass tranny coolers, if i'm not mistaken, are simple round copper tubes with alu fins. Thats what i have currently, and it's not efficient enough for PC watercooling. Try to get a heatercore if you can, you'll drop your temps.

airspirit · 11-05-2002, 05:46 PM

With the BIX he has, he shouldn't need to get another radiator. The BIX can handle quite a bit of heat if allowed to breathe. Since you're just cooling your CPU, save the money and get a better pump.

gmat · 11-05-2002, 05:48 PM

oOps didnt see the BiX part. Okay i go to sleep.

Alchemy · 11-05-2002, 06:31 PM

I really hate to muck around with the CPU, but I think it's likely I botched the WB mounting. Ah well. I have enough AS3 to do this quite a few times more.

I need to put some ball valves and quick-connects on the tubing going to and from the CPU so I can take the system apart easier. Everything is using 3/8" barbs and screw-down clamps at the moment, and trying to mount the WB with tubing still attached to it probably led to a bad mounting.

The setup is as follows: Pump/res -> CPU -> radiator -> pump/res. Yeah, I should have set it up the other way, but when I arranged everything together I lost track of which side on the res was inlet and which was outlet. The pump/res and radiator are sitting on top of my case.

The chip is a Athlon XP 2100+ running stock speed of 1733 MHz. I was getting temps of 55C with my Thermaltake 6 Cu HSF at idle. I don't do much CPU intensive stuff with this yet, so the only meaningful temps to me are at idle.

I'm pretty sure the mobo is reading the temperature 8 or 10 degrees over, since it's an ASUS A7V333 board, and I hear that's common with die temp readings on them.

Still, that's way too high for a watercooling system.

My ultimate goal is a setup with CPU idle temps 10-20 C above ambient, under which conditions the noise would be barely perceptable - less than 30 dBA, anyhow. Once I pick up either a GF4 or Radeon, I plan to cool that as well.

The Black Ice pump setup is a keeper, though. I think it's a Maxijet, but I can't really tell much about it without tearing apart the res. In any case, it seems to be doing the job. I can't use the Rio for much of anything unless I feel like wrapping it up in a few yards of foam.

I've already sunk about $250 into this project, which netted me two complete watercooling systems, neither of which seem to work well. I don't like the idea of spending much more. I don't spend money on much else, though, so I don't mind spending another hundred or so as long as I can be sure I'm going to use it.

I have some milk crates, tons of cardboard, and some old computer parts around here. I was considering making a portable cooling system under my desk using a good mag-drive, as airspirit suggests. I'd need a much better pump than what I have here to move water 3 feet up from the floor to my CPU as well as overtake friction. But with the old AT (?) power sources I have lying around, I can set up a bunch of 120mm fans down there, which will probably be much quieter. I could even set up two radiators in series. Hmm . . .

airspirit, where can I find that sort of sandpaper? I can't find anything better than 400 grit at Home Depot.

Alchemy

Can O' Beans · 11-05-2002, 11:46 PM

Get wet/dry sandpaper (the black stuff) higher grit can be found at any auto parts store, I've even found it in the auto section of K-Mart & Walmart.

gmat · 11-06-2002, 02:37 AM

At a HW store, look into the paint products aisle. There you can find 600 and over.
Try and ask a paint / body shop they all have what is necessary.

MadDogMe · 11-06-2002, 03:24 AM

I would'nt lapp over 600grit myself, unless a polished bottom that'll tarnish soon, (but hey!, you can't see it right?), is important to you!

...

Do get it flat!, that's the biggest killer, smoothness is secondary...

Use 1/2 tube and barbs if you are'nt already. I mounted my block then put tubing on, it was an easy fit though

...

11-05-2002, 04:53 PM	#1
Alchemy Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Boston Posts: 238	New watercooling rig - troubleshoot me! I've gone through two watercooling systems now. The first one consisted of the following: Rio 800 in a self-built tupperware reservoir Case-mods-built 0.5 kg copper WB UHAUL light duty transmission cooler (4 pass fin and tube radiator) generic 3/8" tubing generic low speed, ultra-quiet 80mm fans shrouded over radiator Temperatures hovered around 55C at idle and went down to 51C when I replaced the fans with 120mm fans that moved about 70cfm and sounded like lawnmowers. I was sort of dissatisfied with this temperature drop, and extremely unhappy with the pump, which was loud as all hell. Like an idiot, I bid on a Black Ice Extreme kit on Ebay and won the damn thing. I was impressed with the res/pump, as it was extremely quiet. The block, on the other hand, was about as ugly as I expected it to be - machining marks all over the base. Good retaining mechanism, though. The radiator looks nice, but it's about half the size of the old one and my quiet but dinky 80mm fans taped in series can't push anything but a breath of air through it. It's much quieter than before, but still not quiet enough to my liking. Because of piss-poor air flow, I'm getting idle temp readings of around 59C. I ordered a cheap fanbus off pcmods, so with that I might take these 120mm demons and stick them on either side of the rad. Otherwise, I might be forced to switch out the BIX rad for my old one. Even then, I might not get enough improvement. The <i>smart</i> thing would have been to replace the pump/res earlier and stayed happy with the system as it was. I use this computer for pretty much everything, so I can't afford to shut it down again to replace anything in the cooling line, at least not for a while. For now, I plan to see how much I can improve the airflow across the rad without making my ears bleed. So, who has recommendations for fans balancing high air flow, good pressure, and low sound? Alchemy

11-05-2002, 05:02 PM	#2
jtroutma Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SLO, CA Posts: 837	I think we could use a few more details... I will be the first one to say that those are REALLY high temps for a water cooling kit so there is something up there! How do you have your system layed out? What chip are you cooling and what is the current clock speed? How much are you willing to spend? What is your "goal" temp? What block are you currently using? etc etc etc. We will be more than happy to help you out, just need more info. __________________ Athlon64 X2 4200+ @ 2.5Ghz (250FSB x 10) OCZ VX 1GB 4000 @ 250FSB (6-2-2-2 timmings) DFI LANParty nForce4 Ultra-D SCSI Raid 5 x (3) Cheetah 15K HDDs LSI Express 500 (128MB cache) OCZ PowerStream 520W PSU ATI X850XT PE (Stock) DTEK WhiteWater + DTEK Custom Radiator Eheim 1250

11-05-2002, 05:32 PM	#3
bigben2k Responsible for 2% of all the posts here. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas, U.S.A. Posts: 8,302	Let's add some more info: Rio pump Max head: 5 feet flow @0: 211 gph Power: 12 Watts (not too shabby!) U-Haul tranny coolers here (Not bad!) The first thing to check is if the block is mounted properly. The application of the Arctic Silver (or other thermal paste) is the biggest factor. Normally, you'd only apply a razor thin layer on the CPU core, and the block. You mentionned that the pump is buzzing, and that's due to a high flow restriction: 1-fix the impeller. (run search here, same as for the Eheim 1048) 2-too much pressure, switch to 1/2 tubing. Doesn't this pump have 1/2 inlet/outlet? For fan, I'll be using a blower, instead of an axial fan. I'll post pics when I have it. All in all, it's all a little more involved than you might like, but hey, it's a watercooler... __________________ WBTA (Water Block Testing Alliance) Nordic Hardware WC 101

11-05-2002, 05:38 PM	#4
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	Lap your waterblock to 1200 grit. Clean processor die. Apply tiny amt of AS3 (only enough to make it sparkle) on both proc and bloc. Mate. Get 5C-10C better. Dump Rio shite pump. Get a Danner 350 GPH online for $40 USD. Run it inline. Ooh and ah as it runs quiet. Push/pull with your fans at 7V. Watch your temps go down to 45C or below. Add Hyperlube or WW to your mix in 1 tbsp/Qt, watch your temps drop more. I did the same thing. I recognized that my Via Aqua 1300 was a POS and canned it after 20 minutes of testing. My fans had to be bumped to 12V before I got decent temps, though (it made a 4C difference on my BIXr2). If all else fails, drop your CPU in a bucket of chilled mineral oil. That'll do it for you. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

11-05-2002, 05:46 PM	#6
airspirit Been /.'d... have you? Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,986	With the BIX he has, he shouldn't need to get another radiator. The BIX can handle quite a bit of heat if allowed to breathe. Since you're just cooling your CPU, save the money and get a better pump. __________________ #!/bin/sh {who;} {last;} {pause;} {grep;} {touch;} {unzip;} mount /dev/girl -t {wet;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} {fsck;} echo yes yes yes {yes;} umount {/dev/girl;zip;} rm -rf {wet.spot;} {sleep;} finger: permission denied

11-05-2002, 05:42 PM	#5
gmat Thermophile Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,221	4-pass tranny coolers, if i'm not mistaken, are simple round copper tubes with alu fins. Thats what i have currently, and it's not efficient enough for PC watercooling. Try to get a heatercore if you can, you'll drop your temps.

11-05-2002, 05:48 PM	#7
gmat Thermophile Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,221	oOps didnt see the BiX part. Okay i go to sleep.

11-05-2002, 06:31 PM	#8
Alchemy Cooling Savant Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Boston Posts: 238	I really hate to muck around with the CPU, but I think it's likely I botched the WB mounting. Ah well. I have enough AS3 to do this quite a few times more. I need to put some ball valves and quick-connects on the tubing going to and from the CPU so I can take the system apart easier. Everything is using 3/8" barbs and screw-down clamps at the moment, and trying to mount the WB with tubing still attached to it probably led to a bad mounting. The setup is as follows: Pump/res -> CPU -> radiator -> pump/res. Yeah, I should have set it up the other way, but when I arranged everything together I lost track of which side on the res was inlet and which was outlet. The pump/res and radiator are sitting on top of my case. The chip is a Athlon XP 2100+ running stock speed of 1733 MHz. I was getting temps of 55C with my Thermaltake 6 Cu HSF at idle. I don't do much CPU intensive stuff with this yet, so the only meaningful temps to me are at idle. I'm pretty sure the mobo is reading the temperature 8 or 10 degrees over, since it's an ASUS A7V333 board, and I hear that's common with die temp readings on them. Still, that's way too high for a watercooling system. My ultimate goal is a setup with CPU idle temps 10-20 C above ambient, under which conditions the noise would be barely perceptable - less than 30 dBA, anyhow. Once I pick up either a GF4 or Radeon, I plan to cool that as well. The Black Ice pump setup is a keeper, though. I think it's a Maxijet, but I can't really tell much about it without tearing apart the res. In any case, it seems to be doing the job. I can't use the Rio for much of anything unless I feel like wrapping it up in a few yards of foam. I've already sunk about $250 into this project, which netted me two complete watercooling systems, neither of which seem to work well. I don't like the idea of spending much more. I don't spend money on much else, though, so I don't mind spending another hundred or so as long as I can be sure I'm going to use it. I have some milk crates, tons of cardboard, and some old computer parts around here. I was considering making a portable cooling system under my desk using a good mag-drive, as airspirit suggests. I'd need a much better pump than what I have here to move water 3 feet up from the floor to my CPU as well as overtake friction. But with the old AT (?) power sources I have lying around, I can set up a bunch of 120mm fans down there, which will probably be much quieter. I could even set up two radiators in series. Hmm . . . airspirit, where can I find that sort of sandpaper? I can't find anything better than 400 grit at Home Depot. Alchemy

11-05-2002, 11:46 PM	#9
Can O' Beans Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Pa - USA Posts: 264	Get wet/dry sandpaper (the black stuff) higher grit can be found at any auto parts store, I've even found it in the auto section of K-Mart & Walmart.

11-06-2002, 02:37 AM	#10
gmat Thermophile Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: France Posts: 1,221	At a HW store, look into the paint products aisle. There you can find 600 and over. Try and ask a paint / body shop they all have what is necessary.

11-06-2002, 03:24 AM	#11
MadDogMe Thermophile Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just shut up ;) ... Posts: 1,068	I would'nt lapp over 600grit myself, unless a polished bottom that'll tarnish soon, (but hey!, you can't see it right?), is important to you! ... Do get it flat!, that's the biggest killer, smoothness is secondary... Use 1/2 tube and barbs if you are'nt already. I mounted my block then put tubing on, it was an easy fit though ...

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)