...water to momentarily stagnate and fully absorb the heat

[pHaestus]

Ah I didn't realize you were also a moderator at that forum jmke.

[BillA]

Originally Posted by pHaestus

Ah I didn't realize you were also a moderator at that forum jmke.

oh my, now there are 2 people in the hole
jmke
now that you have been made aware of the (allegedly) libelous statements on a forum on which you are a mod, what do you intend to do ?

note that no action will make YOU a party

[jmke]

*gone* *

Joe "hehe as if this was the first time ProCooling was threatened to be sued..."
jaydee116:"Sure I can be rude sometimes "
Cathar:"It was morbidly enjoyable like sneaking an occasional peak at one of the soap-dramas my wife watches when there's some horribly dramatic affair occurring"
gone_fishing:"That is the biggest sadsack case of human existance I have yet run into over the net."
pHaestus:"Ah I didn't realize you were also a moderator at that forum jmke."
jaydee116:"What does it matter if they are on your site or not. Fact is they are OUT THERE! That should be enough for you not to use his reviews"

[pHaestus]

this will be a lose-lose situation for me but if forced to do so I will publicly defend myself using an editorial at Procooling as my sounding board. I see you doing a lot of backpedaling away from l3d's comments jmke but I don't know how you'll distance yourself from the fact that someone making false statements is a regular reviewer for your site. I don't do damage control myself; I escalate things as much as possible.

[jmke]

*gone* *

Joe "hehe as if this was the first time ProCooling was threatened to be sued..."
jaydee116:"Sure I can be rude sometimes "
Cathar:"It was morbidly enjoyable like sneaking an occasional peak at one of the soap-dramas my wife watches when there's some horribly dramatic affair occurring"
gone_fishing:"That is the biggest sadsack case of human existance I have yet run into over the net."
pHaestus:"Ah I didn't realize you were also a moderator at that forum jmke."
jaydee116:"What does it matter if they are on your site or not. Fact is they are OUT THERE! That should be enough for you not to use his reviews"

[pHaestus]

Perhaps backpedal is the wrong word; you are in my opinion wise to distance yourself from Liquid3D's statements. Would you agree then that his statements are libelous? Does that affect your confidence in his test results?

I do not have to save face as I am in the right. If liquid3d were smart he would delete all accusations not based upon fact before I air this out publicly.

[jmke]

*gone* *

Joe "hehe as if this was the first time ProCooling was threatened to be sued..."
jaydee116:"Sure I can be rude sometimes "
Cathar:"It was morbidly enjoyable like sneaking an occasional peak at one of the soap-dramas my wife watches when there's some horribly dramatic affair occurring"
gone_fishing:"That is the biggest sadsack case of human existance I have yet run into over the net."
pHaestus:"Ah I didn't realize you were also a moderator at that forum jmke."
jaydee116:"What does it matter if they are on your site or not. Fact is they are OUT THERE! That should be enough for you not to use his reviews"

[pHaestus]

I dont care a tinker's damn about any comments that were made about my testing methods. I am up in arms about personal attacks on my credibility. The fact that lies were made up to discredit my test results pisses me off.

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by jmke

I've never seen pHaestus, BillA or the site owner Joe lash out to online reviews, which is good; but people like jaydee116 will not receive any respect from me, no matter if his comments are valid or grounded, if he can't take the effort to address people in a normal fashion, then I won't take the effort to read/reply to them.

Originally Posted by killernoodle

JD just got served

LOL. Can't take the heat, get out of the fire.

P.S. I don't represent ProCooling in anyway so I don't care if you don't listen.

[BalefireX]

How about this part, from the apology:

Originally Posted by Liquid3D

...when I found Jaydee116 to be particularly harsh, I'd clicked on his profile to see whom it was insulting me. Under Interests it read "Designing and fabricating water cooling stuff with my CNC mill." This had me wondering what role this may have played in the fabricating of the original Casacde, and perhaps this person had a personal interest in all this.

Jaydee designed/built the Cascade for Cathar? News to me :/

[pHaestus]

Well...

Deductive reasoning is obviously not liquid3d's strong suit. Look at the conclusions he leapt to about me

[jaydee]

and when I found Jaydee116 to be particularly harsh, I'd clicked on his profile to see whom it was insulting me. Under Interests it read "Designing and fabricating water cooling stuff with my CNC mill." This had me wondering what role this may have played in the fabricating of the original Casacde, and perhaps this person had a personal interest in all this.

WTF? Interesting. I live in the USA, Cathar lives in Australia. Also I don't remember "insulting" him, but whatever.

I think this type of reasoning is where this whole situation started. Instead of just ASSUMING something you should at least do a little digging to find some evidence. I don't think it would take to long searching threads here at ProCooling to find I and Cathar do not have any type of official association at this point. We have worked off each others idea's but I had very very little to do with the Cascade design and nothing to do with the White Water. I don't even have the equipment to make a Cascade at this point if I wanted to.

About a month ago I did PM Cathar and asked if he would be interested in a USA manufacturer and distributor in the USA because I was pondering buying a $30,000 CNC mill from Hass and getting in to the manufactuing and prototyping business for out of country people like Cathar and for forum members at ProCooling that needed a block made cheaper than a normal machinest would charge and other things. I also discussed some things with D-TEK about doing some of their prototyping.

Anyway assumption on small things I can understand, most of us do it. But making these allegations is a pretty serious thing that should be backed up by imperial evidence.

[jaydee]

Let's say you are an owner of a business and need an employee to do a spacific job that takes spacific skills and knowledge. Would you hire anyone that was up to working for you or would you screen the people for who could do the job right the first time?


Or if you were to subcontract a job out to another company/person. Would you hire a guy off the street who can show no skills or knowledge of the job that you need done? Or would you search for a company/person that can prove they/it is capable of doing the job right.

Either way these people are representing your business by the work they do for you. Because in the end your name is put on the work that was done even though someone else did it. Your reputation is on the line.

I deal with this everyday at my real job. The company I work for is a sub-contractor and a contractor. The only reason we do ALL of the Costco Wholesale gas station canopies in the USA is because our work is quality and in the end our work represents Costco. Costco dosn't want some halfassed company making a half assed product that represents their company. It makes them look bad.

Now put that perspective in your tech site. Do you want someone writing a review on something they obviously have no knowledge of nore have any idea how to do properly?

The problem with these tech sites is the editors know less about the subject than the reviewers do. How are they supposed to edit something that they know nothing about?

Hey the evidence speaks for itself before anyone wants to complain about this post.

[Althornin]

JMKE - you should be concerned about the outright false statements in Liquid3d's review, i think.
As of yet, i dont see that you are.
I also think you should be concerned with his meandering assumptions that are wrong (in his review).

[bobkoure]

I think the review/preview/article has been substantially modified (or maybe I'm feeling smarter today).
When I first looked at it (following the link from the first posing in this thread) I found it to be almost completely unintelligible. There were sentences that, if you tried to use the meaning of all the words, just didn't "parse".
I went back to it this AM - and it's actually readable.
I didn't save a copy for comparison, was very tired when I first looked at it, am not particularly tired now, so it might just be me - but it looks lots better. Go look - tell me if I'm crazy (crazier)...

[Cathar]

The article has been substantially altered. There is now a note at the end of the article which states that it has been edited heavily since its first revision.

[kronchev]

it still doesnt change the bullshit he stated about pH...

[kronchev]

Originally Posted by bobkoure

I think the review/preview/article has been substantially modified (or maybe I'm feeling smarter today).
When I first looked at it (following the link from the first posing in this thread) I found it to be almost completely unintelligible. There were sentences that, if you tried to use the meaning of all the words, just didn't "parse".
I went back to it this AM - and it's actually readable.
I didn't save a copy for comparison, was very tired when I first looked at it, am not particularly tired now, so it might just be me - but it looks lots better. Go look - tell me if I'm crazy (crazier)...

"Removing the accelerator-nozzle exposes what is perhaps the most critical area of any water-block. The impingement zone."

Parse error: parse error, unexpected '.' in 'http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&number=2&artpage=736&articID=18 8' on line 1

[*klonk*]

#49 Balefire X - yeah exactly, the reason i drew attention to the review was that it was outright hilarious to me, and wanted to share it with the procooling hangouts....

That this has certainly taken a turn during the last day or so - not intended though. :shrug:

For obvious reasons i stand behind Procooling and and thereby pHaestus in this little dispute

[bobkoure]

I'm not worried about incomplete sentences, or, more accurately, periods used for pauses where a dash, colon, or semicolon might have been more appropriate.
I meant "parse" in the sense of "couldn't grasp the meaning" - now I can. I don't necessarily agree with a lot of usage (including "impingement zone") but it's now at the level of computer-marketing-person-speak, which I have had many years experience dealing with

[AngryAlpaca]

Ok, I've decided to actually read the article. It's a lot better than some of his older articles in some places, but "Another insightful engineering aspect of the block, is its effective use of gravity. The block, once properly mounted, has the outlet at its base" and

Danger Den also offers a Brass top plate for the TDX, as they did with their RBX. In the case of the RBX I chose the brass top-plate due to the mass of the block. Many believe (myself included) a copper, or brass top-plate produces better temps with larger blocks, as the metal is cooled, and maintains, or retains the temperature of the incoming water. In the case of the TDX, however; I chose the clear Lucite top. This is a compliment to the block's design, the efficiency of which removes the heated water fast enough so the metal top-plate will not impact over-all temps. The TDX arrived with its Socket-478 mounting hardware, for this test I switched to the Socket-754;

This paragraph here is just terrible.

"I test each system without the aid of zip-ties, or clamps to ensure everything is leak-proof under the worst conditions." You know you're smart when...

He used AS5, not a great testing paste.

The TDX cooled the A64 3400 will ease, however; in all fairness this is the first and only water-block placed on this new chip, ergo my frame of reference is somewhat limited.

To nothing! You've compared high end watercooling with low end aircooling, and you got a predictable result... He used SETI to get a load temperature reading...

Albeit a Cursory Review, the TDX kept thing quite cool, and has kept my A64 3400 under 40°C since its installation, even on 75F/23°C days. Here's a shot of our test platform

Congrats?

Offering the TDX in pure silver (~99.995%) is quite imaginative, and of course the metal is ideal due to it's high thermal conductivity as seen on the chart below

About as imaginative as using fins...

Well, he's improved in that he is now using a +/- 1C temperature sensor, but he doesn't compare to anything beyond stock cooling, and he makes the comment that it is better than many blocks on the market today, but he offers no proof whatsoever... I was able to comprehend it, but, in my opinion, that review was QUITE useless.

How'd he get so popular?

[jmke]

He used AS5, not a great testing paste.

why is that?

[AngryAlpaca]

Because it takes a long time to burn in. I guess it doesn't matter since he only mounted once

[Etacovda]

I actually thought it was fairly strange that he used his 'hard life' as an excuse for his review... honestly, if your mechanic managed to do a particularly bad job on fixing your brakes, and you had an accident because of it, would you sympathise because he had a hard night with the missus and had to sleep on the couch?

Extreme, I know; however, I think that the point I'm trying to make is there. I agree with JD - if you can't do it, learn how to until you can.

[pHaestus]

So is jmke gonna pay you guys for technical editing now? I find it kinda ironic that liquid3d would attack me and my methods on another forum and then they rush to incorporate the suggestions. Especially with this Feb 17, 2004 post from our Pro/Geeks forum:

Originally Posted by Liquid3D

I'd like to get some feedback on this article, as I tried to implement many of the suggestions made around my RBX article.
http://www.ksbrainstorms.com/index.p...erocool_DP-102

link appears dead now.

I believe the message to take from this mess is that it is important to keep original log files from your testing so that if your objectivity is questioned you can retort with impunity. The secondary message that will hopefully come forth is that it's very bad to make up things about people's honesty without facts.

These messages (along with all the necessary data to defend myself) will be included in my testing methods and objectives article within the week. This will mean that lots of people will know about this saga and see my side of this story for a very long time. As mfgrs will be particularly interested in how we test here, I'd expect the fact that liquid3d makes up lies to support his opinions will be of continued interest to them. And the fact that liquid3d writes for madshrimps.be and moderates the truextreme forums is of course public knowledge.

The libelous statements really should have been retracted yesterday as I requested. I cannot let my credibility be called into question and I will now be forced to defend it vigorously.