Too much flow causing water to foam, bad thing?

ap0calyps · 01-24-2003, 08:54 AM

Hey,

My reservoir looks like a hottub with the jets on full! All the water foams up. My cooling system is as follows:

everything is 1/2" fittings and tubing
Proven Pumps 500Gph (makes Ehiem's best look shitty)
DangerDen Maze 2.2
2x 172w pelts
86 chev heatercore with 120CFM 120mm fan
dangerden reservoir
distilled water + redline water wetter

THe water is sucked from the res into the pump, pushed though the block to the heatercore, through it back to the res. The water jets into the reservoir like a jet in a hottub, and it foams up. Like this pump is powerful. Is this bad? How can I stop it?

ambient · 01-24-2003, 09:46 AM

the foam is caused by the water wetter and possibly air in your system. did you get all the air out after you filled it? normally after you leave the system running for a while and gotten all the air out, the foam should disappear.

ap0calyps · 01-24-2003, 09:55 AM

THere is air in the reservoir, and always will be, as that is the POINT of having it. It's the highest point in the system, so as I fill it, water flows through the tubes to the rest of the system, the heatercore block and pump, and all the air rises to the reservoir. I will need to open it to fill it all the time. I have left it running for quite some time with no change at all. I think it's caused by the high pressure of my pump.

pHaestus · 01-24-2003, 10:13 AM

Yes ww + air means foam. Try moving the reservoir closer to the pump inlet and if possible change the barbs and suction line of the pump to a larger hose.

SCompRacer · 01-24-2003, 11:27 AM

In my experience, the size and design of that reservoir is tough to bleed with a high flow system. I have one at the top of a mid tower with a Maze3, DD GPU block, Via Aqua 1300 pump and it wouldn't bleed. Flow is around 85GPH. The flow hits the sidewall and churns up air bubbles that get recycled through the system. I could pinch a hose and slow the flow to a crawl till it bled, top off the res, unpinch the hose and it still churned up the small amount of air in the top of the res and got foamy again.

To fix mine I inserted a small strip of [plastic] window screen around the inside diameter of the res. I cut most of the threads off the cap so I can fill the res to a higher level without the coolant wicking up and out the threads while I tightened the cap. Flow dropped to like 82GPH and the screen seems to seperate the air from the water so it doesn't get drawn down to the outlet. Drawback, if you got junk in your coolant, it can get caught in the screen and reduce or block flow. I have seen some guys stick a foam block (like the one they get with the Eheim 1250's) in there too. With your flow rate, this may not work at all.

redleader · 01-24-2003, 08:14 PM

I put my inlet 3 inches above the outlet and NO air at all gets through. Bleeds before my eyes.

Pump isn't inside though.

BrianW · 01-24-2003, 09:23 PM

The higher the waterlevel is in comparison to your inlets and outlets, the less foam effect you will get. In my reservoir (H X W X D - 5" X 5" X 2.5") has barbs on a 5 x 5 front piece positioned on the lowest part of it. If filled more than 2/3 of the way I get no foam, but if it is under that i get a lil bit of foam. It is rather harmless though, I think?

Brian W

jtroutma · 01-25-2003, 01:30 PM

Had the same problem as well ap0calyps.

What I did was moved the inlet for the res. much lower than the water level. It usually took about 2-3 days to get rid of all the foam and bubbles but after that it should be fine. Also make sure that the water is not creating a minature vortex in the res. That will suck air down into the water and cause the foam as well.

One last suggestion. Make sure that there are no air leaks somewhere else in the system. That can easily cause that problem.

g.l.amour · 01-25-2003, 02:35 PM

off topic

what kind of temps are u getting with those two pelts apocalyps? seems like a sucker on the electrical bill though.

boomer235 · 01-28-2003, 05:16 PM

Something to watch for:
When this happened in my setup the Water Wetter came out of solution. It is my understanding that Watter Wetter is a suspended in solution. When it came out of the solution due to the foaming it coated the inside of my system with a thin waxy film. I used a solution of CLR and water to clean it out, and I dont use water wetter anymore.
*edit spelling

BrianW · 01-28-2003, 07:17 PM

What do you use for your coolant? Pure H2O?

Brian W

jtroutma · 01-28-2003, 07:20 PM

If you have an all Copper system OR an all Aluminum system, you can run straight DISTILLED water and it works great.

I went that route when I got tired of dealing with WW.

boomer235 · 01-28-2003, 08:04 PM

I am using distilled H2O
I may add humidifier Bacteriostatic if things start to grow. I have been running with just water for 2 weeks with no ill effects.
I am testing "Original Bt" Bacteriostatic from Lowes undilluted on a penny to see if there is any corrosion. My system is copper WB and copper Rad.
BTW foam in your system will cause temps to rise..

golovko · 01-28-2003, 08:06 PM

i had the same problem with my res, so i took it out of the system. bleeding it was just too much of a pain in the ass, the inlet has to be much higher than the outlet in order for them to bleed at all if you have a high flow system. i just use a t now and fill through that and my system is completely bled within an hour or so of filling. i used to use ww too, i hate that shit. now all i use is distilled water, works great for me.

01-24-2003, 08:54 AM	#1
ap0calyps Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 30	Too much flow causing water to foam, bad thing? Hey, My reservoir looks like a hottub with the jets on full! All the water foams up. My cooling system is as follows: everything is 1/2" fittings and tubing Proven Pumps 500Gph (makes Ehiem's best look shitty) DangerDen Maze 2.2 2x 172w pelts 86 chev heatercore with 120CFM 120mm fan dangerden reservoir distilled water + redline water wetter THe water is sucked from the res into the pump, pushed though the block to the heatercore, through it back to the res. The water jets into the reservoir like a jet in a hottub, and it foams up. Like this pump is powerful. Is this bad? How can I stop it? __________________ XP 2400+ @ 2.3Ghz 1.95v Swiftech MC462/Vantec Tornado @7v Epox 8K3A+ 2X512MB PC2700@200Mhz CAS2 2.8v R9700Pro @ 425 core 730 mem 3Com 3c905ctx LAN Herc Fortissimo III (HATE Audigy) Adaptec 39320R SCSI RAID 3X 18.2GB Cheetah X15-36LP RAID0 Maxtor Atlas 10K III 73GB (storage) Asus 52X CDROM (burner's in server) Antec SX1200 tower Antec 550W TRUEPower SPU 5X 80mm Vantec Stealth fans

01-24-2003, 09:46 AM	#2
ambient Cooling Savant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 312	the foam is caused by the water wetter and possibly air in your system. did you get all the air out after you filled it? normally after you leave the system running for a while and gotten all the air out, the foam should disappear. __________________ water cooled 1.4 tbird @ 1580 143x11 vcore 1.88 vio 3.55

01-24-2003, 09:55 AM	#3
ap0calyps Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 30	THere is air in the reservoir, and always will be, as that is the POINT of having it. It's the highest point in the system, so as I fill it, water flows through the tubes to the rest of the system, the heatercore block and pump, and all the air rises to the reservoir. I will need to open it to fill it all the time. I have left it running for quite some time with no change at all. I think it's caused by the high pressure of my pump. __________________ XP 2400+ @ 2.3Ghz 1.95v Swiftech MC462/Vantec Tornado @7v Epox 8K3A+ 2X512MB PC2700@200Mhz CAS2 2.8v R9700Pro @ 425 core 730 mem 3Com 3c905ctx LAN Herc Fortissimo III (HATE Audigy) Adaptec 39320R SCSI RAID 3X 18.2GB Cheetah X15-36LP RAID0 Maxtor Atlas 10K III 73GB (storage) Asus 52X CDROM (burner's in server) Antec SX1200 tower Antec 550W TRUEPower SPU 5X 80mm Vantec Stealth fans

01-24-2003, 09:23 PM	#7
BrianW Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Desert City in California Posts: 631	The higher the waterlevel is in comparison to your inlets and outlets, the less foam effect you will get. In my reservoir (H X W X D - 5" X 5" X 2.5") has barbs on a 5 x 5 front piece positioned on the lowest part of it. If filled more than 2/3 of the way I get no foam, but if it is under that i get a lil bit of foam. It is rather harmless though, I think? Brian W __________________ Water Cooled Inwin Q500 (Dual Rads: Rad1 = DTEK Pro Core \| Rad2 = Blick Ice Estreme, Hydor L30, Dangerden Maze2, Bay Res Typhoon Reservoir, 1/2 " DD Tygon Thick Wall Hose). Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently. Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)

01-25-2003, 01:30 PM	#8
jtroutma Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SLO, CA Posts: 837	Had the same problem as well ap0calyps. What I did was moved the inlet for the res. much lower than the water level. It usually took about 2-3 days to get rid of all the foam and bubbles but after that it should be fine. Also make sure that the water is not creating a minature vortex in the res. That will suck air down into the water and cause the foam as well. One last suggestion. Make sure that there are no air leaks somewhere else in the system. That can easily cause that problem. __________________ Athlon64 X2 4200+ @ 2.5Ghz (250FSB x 10) OCZ VX 1GB 4000 @ 250FSB (6-2-2-2 timmings) DFI LANParty nForce4 Ultra-D SCSI Raid 5 x (3) Cheetah 15K HDDs LSI Express 500 (128MB cache) OCZ PowerStream 520W PSU ATI X850XT PE (Stock) DTEK WhiteWater + DTEK Custom Radiator Eheim 1250

01-24-2003, 10:13 AM	#4
pHaestus Big Player Making Big Money Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: irc.lostgeek.com #procooling.com Posts: 4,782	Yes ww + air means foam. Try moving the reservoir closer to the pump inlet and if possible change the barbs and suction line of the pump to a larger hose.

01-24-2003, 11:27 AM	#5
SCompRacer Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 94	In my experience, the size and design of that reservoir is tough to bleed with a high flow system. I have one at the top of a mid tower with a Maze3, DD GPU block, Via Aqua 1300 pump and it wouldn't bleed. Flow is around 85GPH. The flow hits the sidewall and churns up air bubbles that get recycled through the system. I could pinch a hose and slow the flow to a crawl till it bled, top off the res, unpinch the hose and it still churned up the small amount of air in the top of the res and got foamy again. To fix mine I inserted a small strip of [plastic] window screen around the inside diameter of the res. I cut most of the threads off the cap so I can fill the res to a higher level without the coolant wicking up and out the threads while I tightened the cap. Flow dropped to like 82GPH and the screen seems to seperate the air from the water so it doesn't get drawn down to the outlet. Drawback, if you got junk in your coolant, it can get caught in the screen and reduce or block flow. I have seen some guys stick a foam block (like the one they get with the Eheim 1250's) in there too. With your flow rate, this may not work at all.

01-24-2003, 08:14 PM	#6
redleader Thermophile Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The deserts of Tucson, Az Posts: 1,264	I put my inlet 3 inches above the outlet and NO air at all gets through. Bleeds before my eyes. Pump isn't inside though.

01-25-2003, 02:35 PM	#9
g.l.amour Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: on da case Posts: 933	off topic what kind of temps are u getting with those two pelts apocalyps? seems like a sucker on the electrical bill though. __________________ yo soy un tiburón

01-28-2003, 05:16 PM	#10
boomer235 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Phoenix AZ Posts: 22	Something to watch for: When this happened in my setup the Water Wetter came out of solution. It is my understanding that Watter Wetter is a suspended in solution. When it came out of the solution due to the foaming it coated the inside of my system with a thin waxy film. I used a solution of CLR and water to clean it out, and I dont use water wetter anymore. edit spelling Last edited by boomer235; 01-28-2003 at 05:24 PM.*

01-28-2003, 07:17 PM	#11
BrianW Cooling Savant Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Desert City in California Posts: 631	What do you use for your coolant? Pure H2O? Brian W __________________ Water Cooled Inwin Q500 (Dual Rads: Rad1 = DTEK Pro Core \| Rad2 = Blick Ice Estreme, Hydor L30, Dangerden Maze2, Bay Res Typhoon Reservoir, 1/2 " DD Tygon Thick Wall Hose). Flow: Res, Pump, CPU watervlock, Y into both rads, both rads into res independently. Athlon XP 1800+ (@ 1731 - 150mhz fsb.), on a Asus A7N266-c, and a Radeon 9000 *waiting for RMA'd Saphire 9800 ultra from Newegg)

01-28-2003, 07:20 PM	#12
jtroutma Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SLO, CA Posts: 837	If you have an all Copper system OR an all Aluminum system, you can run straight DISTILLED water and it works great. I went that route when I got tired of dealing with WW. __________________ Athlon64 X2 4200+ @ 2.5Ghz (250FSB x 10) OCZ VX 1GB 4000 @ 250FSB (6-2-2-2 timmings) DFI LANParty nForce4 Ultra-D SCSI Raid 5 x (3) Cheetah 15K HDDs LSI Express 500 (128MB cache) OCZ PowerStream 520W PSU ATI X850XT PE (Stock) DTEK WhiteWater + DTEK Custom Radiator Eheim 1250

01-28-2003, 08:04 PM	#13
boomer235 Cooling Neophyte Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Phoenix AZ Posts: 22	I am using distilled H2O I may add humidifier Bacteriostatic if things start to grow. I have been running with just water for 2 weeks with no ill effects. I am testing "Original Bt" Bacteriostatic from Lowes undilluted on a penny to see if there is any corrosion. My system is copper WB and copper Rad. BTW foam in your system will cause temps to rise..

01-28-2003, 08:06 PM	#14
golovko Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Purdue University, USA Posts: 141	i had the same problem with my res, so i took it out of the system. bleeding it was just too much of a pain in the ass, the inlet has to be much higher than the outlet in order for them to bleed at all if you have a high flow system. i just use a t now and fill through that and my system is completely bled within an hour or so of filling. i used to use ww too, i hate that shit. now all i use is distilled water, works great for me.

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