Sub forum for Radiator Design

[Cathar]

Originally Posted by Long Haired Git

JSE @ OCAU swears his signgle pass 3x120 HC is noticeable better than a dual pass, so there must be some other reason (better shroud, better FPI?)

Isn't JSE an importer/reseller of that radiator?

[BillA]

ooof
gut shot if true
gonna give importers/resellers a bad name

[Cathar]

Read the whole thread Bill. Let me know your assessment JSE's claims.

http://forums.overclockers.com.au/sh...d.php?t=373789

[BillA]

oh oh
that is a CoolWave rad !
get ready for a sh*t storm

post 25 marks jse as a liar, he avoids the lie by not answering
technically what is being described is not possible

so Agg locks the thread ??

sorry Stew but you have a high percentage of flakes in the WCing business down under
but that is offset by the willingness of Aussies to buy misrepresented shit because an Aussie is selling it
whew

my assessment ?
a lying salesman with mediocre product peddling it by misrepresentation
(to contest this statement he will have to substantiate his assertions, lol)

[TNT2bluz]

Laminar flow inside the tubes shouldn't be much of an issue given small radiators.

But if that does happen, there are a few tricks that can be employed with tank and header design.

Going back to fundamentals, single-pass radiators have the same cooling capacity as two-pass radiators of the same core dimensions. All it does is give those constricto-matic type blocks a hand.

[Marci]

Sorry Vegetarianator it is not our policy to release such detail.

From that thread ^^^ and my exact point here - I can't get ANYONE to release any data or proof of performance for these clones, no matter what brand name I look under... xspc, radiical, Alphacool NexXxoS Xtreme III, etc etc... all the same thing from the same company... various "reviews" claiming they outperform other rads in "real world" testing *spit*... yet no-one is willing to show the necessary stuff to prove the claimed performance.

The quote above was simply in reply to "what fan did u use on the rad to get c/w rating u just stated" (basically)

Anyone likely to be in the know representing any of the quoted companies who is asked simply replies with "we can't divulge that info" or similar.

[TNT2bluz]

Anyone likely to be in the know representing any of the quoted companies who is asked simply replies with "we can't divulge that info" or similar.

That's rich.

It isn't that they won't release it, it is likely they do not know what they're talking about.

A lot of these people, even the "chinese" manufacturers are actually trading firms. They simply go to their local supplier, normally with a sample of our rad, and tell them they want this done at this price.

I've seen one too many emails with claims saying "Better than the Black Ice blah blah blah" but doesn't really show any metrics and testing parameters.

We've long mentioned that its easy to design a heat exchanger to just "one up" a sample by changing a few parameters.

Referring back to an earlier post, radiator engineers are a very cautious and over-qualifying lot when presenting information about radiator performance.

[BillA]

"single-pass radiators have the same cooling capacity as two-pass radiators of the same core dimensions"

nope
not true at all
(Willie, I can send you the data as it is your NDA and products)

[Marci]

OK... rephrase... who, as the company adding their badge to the rad, SHOULD know what they're talking about... but even still in answer to "what fan did you use?"... that's just pathetic not being able to divulge which 120mm fan u used to get the c/w rating... altho I've only ever seen JSE give the rad a rating publicly... none of the other rebadgers have bothered coming up with anything other than "here - it's pretty and cheap!" particularly.

[TNT2bluz]

Note that the "core" design and dimensions determine the heat rejection capacity of a radiator.

You still have my email addy, Bill.

altho I've only ever seen JSE give the rad a rating publicly... none of the other rebadgers have bothered coming up with anything other than "here - it's pretty and cheap!" particularly.

LOL

Absolutely understood, Marci, most of our frustrations here lie in the premise that we started what was once just a backyard industry serving enthusiast needs.

Most of our companies have evolved its engineering, production systems, designs, and general technology levels only to see the next trading company offer our work for less. But lessons learned.

A friend of ours from Germany mentioned that there are a lot of watercooling companies that have shut down recently. Moreoever, it has been awfully quiet on the development side as well.

I figure that's because no real manufacturer/designer in the community has released anything for the rest to copy.

badger badger badger badger badger badger...

[jaydee]

Can't believe they closed that thread. What the hell are they afraid of? A fake being exposed? "Umm, I can't divulge that info because I dreamed it up and never really did a test"........... "Oh yeah, that is now my policy"....

[BillA]

"it has been awfully quiet on the development side as well"
eh ?
brand new line of rads with different features and performance ?
jeez, can't buy no respect 'round here

but I guess thats because the performance is unknown, ok . . . .

[BillA]

http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/imag...hl-600x440.gif

http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/imag...ss-600x440.gif

http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/imag...cw-600x440.gif

[TNT2bluz]

That's in Germany, Bill

220 is a rather odd size isn't it?

[BillA]

marketing is wonderful
no technical explanation

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by unregistered

marketing is wonderful
no technical explanation

That is because most don't demand it. Worst is the people that have the oppurtunity to help set it strait end up locking threads..... People are sheep, get them headed in the right direction and they will. Right now they are going the wrong way...

[jaydee]

Let's see how quickly this gets locked: http://forums.overclockers.com.au/sh...93#post4907893

[Les]

Originally Posted by unregistered

http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/imag...hl-600x440.gif

http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/imag...ss-600x440.gif

http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/imag...cw-600x440.gif

Interesting.
What definition are you using for "C" in "C/W"? (LMTD, pseudo LMTD, MTD, or "in" TD)
Notwithstanding, data for the 120QP appears to suggest that the calculated ~5watt{~lpmxPa/6) of Frictional Heat(discussed here) at ~3.3gpm(12.5 lpm) may adequately explain the down-turn of the curves at low fannage.

Edit :Fixed link, ta Etacovda.

[Etacovda]

Les - your link is broken for the 120qp -
heres the correct one http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/imag...SS-350x257.gif

As for JSE, well, hes definitely underhanded and in it for the money. - original thread

my opinion of him is pretty low, he strikes out nicely when you ask for test data.

[BillA]

Originally Posted by Les

Interesting.
What definition are you using for "C" in "C/W"? (LMTD, pseudo LMTD, MTD, or "in" TD)
Notwithstanding, data for the 120QP appears to suggest that the calculated ~5watt{~lpmxPa/6) of Frictional Heat(discussed here) at ~3.3gpm(12.5 lpm) may adequately explain the down-turn of the curves at low fannage.

Edit :Fixed link, ta Etacovda.

Hi Les
"C", per your preference, is the difference between the coolant inlet temp and the avg fan inlet air temp from 2 sensors 180° apart located in the center of the fan blade area 1/4" from the grille (all tested with grills in place)

to me the downturn at low fannage suggests something completely different, I don't believe the tube velocity is sufficient for appreciable heating

[Brians256]

Originally Posted by jaydee

Can't believe they closed that thread. What the hell are they afraid of? A fake being exposed? "Umm, I can't divulge that info because I dreamed it up and never really did a test"........... "Oh yeah, that is now my policy"....

That truly amazed me. Pro/Forums are a bit, um, exciting at times. But I don't think we let people get away with that level of crud.

[BillA]

OCAU is rabidly pro Aussie, banging on a fellow Aussie by an outsider is verboten
Cathar is now the only technical voice there
it used to be quite different (4-5 yrs ago), similar to procooling but more constrained

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by unregistered

OCAU is rabidly pro Aussie, banging on a fellow Aussie by an outsider is verboten
Cathar is now the only technical voice there
it used to be quite different (4-5 yrs ago), similar to procooling but more constrained

I will probably be warned or banned soon I expect... At least a few readers will see my thread before it is closed or removed and might have to actually think for minute. "Hummm, Australian rad really Chinese knock off? hummmm".

[Les]

Originally Posted by unregistered

..
to me the downturn at low fannage suggests something completely different, I don't believe the tube velocity is sufficient for appreciable heating

Using
Heat= Potential Energy Loss= lpm*m(H2O)/6 watts
get:


This looks reasonable to me.

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by jaydee

Let's see how quickly this gets locked: http://forums.overclockers.com.au/sh...93#post4907893

As expected, didn't last very long. So much for objectivity from OCAU.