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General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums.

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Unread 06-01-2004, 11:42 AM   #1
spinky
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Default Zalman Reserator 1 - Fanless Watercooling

i did a search here on the forums and it seems nobody mentioned the Reserator yet. i'm thinking about getting one.. it seems to perform rather well for a fanless setup.

http://www.zalman.co.kr/usa/product/...dx=63&code=021

a review by bit-tech
http://www.bit-tech.net/review/315/2

i'm thinking what waterblock would make the setup perform better, thats of course without changing the pump. it comes with a qmax 300, 300l/h so thats about 80gph..fairly low

(forgive my noobness, but i'm trying to make sense of what i read)
http://www.overclockers.com/articles373/wbsum.asp

a waterblock with lower c/w, lower pressure drop - psi/inches h20 will perform better than the zalman block in the same setup, is it correct to assume as such?

for example the zalman waterblock is rated as
0.17 c/w
0.56 pressure drop - psi
15.5 pressure drop - inches h2o

the swiftech mcw5002 is rated as
0.15 c/w
0.31 pressure drop - psi
8.6 pressure drop - inches h2o

the dangerden tdx
0.14 c/w
0.51 pressure drop - psi
14.1 pressure drop - inches h2o

the dd maze4
0.18 c/w
0.12 pressure drop - psi
3.3 pressure drop - inches h2o

so in this case, given that nothings changed except for the waterblock, the performance would be swiftech > dd tdx > dd maze4 > zalman ?

please advise.
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Unread 06-01-2004, 12:42 PM   #2
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You could build a fanless setup much cheaper and have it perform better than that thing.

Pressure drop really has nothing to do with the cooling ability of a waterblock. The internal structures and the design have an outcome on the pressure drop of the block, but if a block has a lower pressure drop it will be able to flow more water.
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Unread 06-01-2004, 01:52 PM   #3
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Also reviewed here: http://www.nordichardware.com/review...Zalman_passiv/
(to toot my own horn, or in this case, the one of my colleague!).

It's not flawless.
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Unread 06-01-2004, 03:22 PM   #4
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To get it to perform up to acceptable standards, add a heatercore to the loop and then throw out the shitty little pump for a better one and all you got left is a fancy looking resevoir. But yeah, I would lay odds that the block isn't much either.
Have fun throwing your money away, seems to be a trend.....don't forget your golden water to put in there.
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Unread 06-01-2004, 06:58 PM   #5
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I'd be curious to know if there are other options for silent cooling. Heatercores are designed to require airflow, and don't lose much heat without a fan on them ... so what else could be used? Besides ugly copper piping "loops" which have been done in the past ... are there other options for silent cooling?
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Unread 06-01-2004, 07:03 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got KarmA?
I'd be curious to know if there are other options for silent cooling. Heatercores are designed to require airflow, and don't lose much heat without a fan on them ... so what else could be used? Besides ugly copper piping "loops" which have been done in the past ... are there other options for silent cooling?
Actually I have been experimenting with heater cores in a passive cooled loop. I took 2 small heater cores and put them in the same loop and let the computer run without the fan on. It actually works ok. You can even setup a 120mm to come on at low voltage at a certain temp to cool it down and the fan will shut off. You have to keep them outside of the case though.

I was pondering getting a car radiator out of a small car and trying it aswell.
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Unread 06-01-2004, 07:23 PM   #7
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I've played around as well ... and unless I was stacking a large number of heatercores (backpressure+++) I doubt I'd have much success cooling an actively running processor and gpu with any real degree of success. The zalman passive cooler/reservoir has a great concept ... but I'm sure it can be tweaked some.
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Unread 06-01-2004, 07:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got KarmA?
I've played around as well ... and unless I was stacking a large number of heatercores (backpressure+++) I doubt I'd have much success cooling an actively running processor and gpu with any real degree of success. The zalman passive cooler/reservoir has a great concept ... but I'm sure it can be tweaked some.
I was using an XP1700+ with a DD Maze 4 and a VIA 2600(45.5watts max) pump. I just ran the comp as I would normally and the temp didn't get above 45C. I started gamming and the temps when up to 50C (temps taken from Type K thermocoupler). I left the comp on for 24 hours idle and the temps didn't rise much. It worked but it certainly is not performace orinetated. You are not going to get performance and quiet. It is one or the other.
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Unread 06-01-2004, 10:36 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee116
You are not going to get performance and quiet. It is one or the other.
I beg to disagree. It just doesn't come cheap, or small, or easy to maintain.
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Unread 06-01-2004, 10:47 PM   #10
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Yeah Karma is right. What you can't get is performance and quiet in a case for a decent price. The Zalman reserator will get you a silent PC. It will be crap for performance, though. You know how I know it will be crap, without looking at a review or handling one myself? Because Zalman explicitly states "not for high performance cooling." If they don't state that, then the thing is probably crap. If they do state that, you've got a sure thing.
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Unread 06-01-2004, 11:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killernoodle
You could build a fanless setup much cheaper and have it perform better than that thing.
true, but ordering parts from different places, spending time on setting it up is not an option for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by killernoodle
Pressure drop really has nothing to do with the cooling ability of a waterblock. The internal structures and the design have an outcome on the pressure drop of the block, but if a block has a lower pressure drop it will be able to flow more water.
so you are saying the flow rate of the water doesn't effect performance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gone_fishin
To get it to perform up to acceptable standards, add a heatercore to the loop and then throw out the shitty little pump for a better one and all you got left is a fancy looking resevoir. But yeah, I would lay odds that the block isn't much either.
Have fun throwing your money away, seems to be a trend.....don't forget your golden water to put in there.
looking at the review @ bit-tech, the reserator is on par with the thermalright sp94 heatsink with a burning prescott cpu. the objective of the reserator is to cool silently, i do believe that with the same amount of money, better setups can be achieved. but the investments in terms of time and effort isn't worth it for me. and since it performs on par with the BEST fan cooling solution out there, i'd say it is an acceptable standard.

not to mention, there won't be any need to mod the casing to fit the heatercore/rad, drilling of holes to fit fans, barbs, tubes etc. and at the end of the day there won't be any noise.

for its intended usage it seems to perform very well to me. last i checked this is a forum to discuss watercooling, low or high end. if these forums are only limited to high end watercooling discussions then i believe i have come to the wrong forums.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryAlpaca
Yeah Karma is right. What you can't get is performance and quiet in a case for a decent price. The Zalman reserator will get you a silent PC. It will be crap for performance, though. You know how I know it will be crap, without looking at a review or handling one myself? Because Zalman explicitly states "not for high performance cooling." If they don't state that, then the thing is probably crap. If they do state that, you've got a sure thing.
again, performance on par with the BEST air cooled heatsink is NOT crap. but compared to the best watercooling setups then it is pretty crappy.

you guys are saying a car is slow because planes can go 10x faster. thats a stupid remark if you asked me. the car is not slow, just that it has a different intended usage -- and for what it is intended for it is fast enough. but of course thats just me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Got KarmA?
I beg to disagree. It just doesn't come cheap, or small, or easy to maintain.
its not cheap, its not small. but i'd say its easy to setup and easy to maintain. do look through the review and its manual before coming to quick conclusions.
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Unread 06-02-2004, 12:21 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spinky
its not cheap, its not small. but i'd say its easy to setup and easy to maintain. do look through the review and its manual before coming to quick conclusions.
Before you get quote happy again, re-read my post in it's proper context. You'll find I wasn't referring to the zalman in any way shape or form. I wouldn't consider it a "performance" watercooler, would you?

I really don't understand why you're taking criticism on the unit as criticism on yourself. If it fits your needs, buy it.
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Unread 06-02-2004, 12:29 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got KarmA?
Before you get quote happy again, re-read my post in it's proper context. You'll find I wasn't referring to the zalman in any way shape or form. I wouldn't consider it a "performance" watercooler, would you?

I really don't understand why you're taking criticism on the unit as criticism on yourself. If it fits your needs, buy it.
i believe i didn't say anyting about the zalman being a performance watercooler. did i?

constructive criticism is of course welcomed. but i don't think saying it sucks without reasoning is constructive

EDIT:
so far the current reviews shows it being a pretty acceptable water cooler performance wise. im just wondering if a better waterblock would improve the performance.
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Unread 06-02-2004, 01:37 AM   #14
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looking at that graph, at low flow rates, the Swiftech MCW6000 is the best performer.

I dont know how much of an increase in performance you'd see over the Zalman block, but I expect you'd gain a few degrees C.
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Unread 06-02-2004, 07:16 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spinky
true, but ordering parts from different places, spending time on setting it up is not an option for me.



so you are saying the flow rate of the water doesn't effect performance?



looking at the review @ bit-tech, the reserator is on par with the thermalright sp94 heatsink with a burning prescott cpu. the objective of the reserator is to cool silently, i do believe that with the same amount of money, better setups can be achieved. but the investments in terms of time and effort isn't worth it for me. and since it performs on par with the BEST fan cooling solution out there, i'd say it is an acceptable standard.

not to mention, there won't be any need to mod the casing to fit the heatercore/rad, drilling of holes to fit fans, barbs, tubes etc. and at the end of the day there won't be any noise.

for its intended usage it seems to perform very well to me. last i checked this is a forum to discuss watercooling, low or high end. if these forums are only limited to high end watercooling discussions then i believe i have come to the wrong forums.



again, performance on par with the BEST air cooled heatsink is NOT crap. but compared to the best watercooling setups then it is pretty crappy.

you guys are saying a car is slow because planes can go 10x faster. thats a stupid remark if you asked me. the car is not slow, just that it has a different intended usage -- and for what it is intended for it is fast enough. but of course thats just me.



its not cheap, its not small. but i'd say its easy to setup and easy to maintain. do look through the review and its manual before coming to quick conclusions.

Paying $200+ to cut down on a few Db of noise is a fools use of money. No performance is gained over stock air cooling, and it certainly can't be compared to a normal watercooling loop. Simply relocating your box under your desk with stock cooling would have the same effect.
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Unread 06-02-2004, 07:41 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gone_fishin
No performance is gained over stock air cooling
thermalright sp94 is not stock air cooling. its the best air cooling available in the market. if you can't tell the difference between stock cooling and a thermalright sp94 then i think you can't tell the difference between a shitty watercooling setup and a good one, and you'd be paying 200USD$ for nothing (since you can't tell the difference anyway)

and if you have nothing more constructive to contribute i beg you not to reply. i started this thread to discuss the reserator, and not bash it based on what you want to believe

EDIT:
BalefireX, thanks for pointing me to the graph, i read the review and that block might just be what i was looking for.
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Unread 06-02-2004, 08:06 AM   #17
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THe bit tech review does show that the resorator beats the sp94, but only just and it even preform worst, in some instances. I simple h2o setup with a swify block, a radiator and a low rpm fan and a small ehiem pump, would likely be a far better (and cheaper) alternative.
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Unread 06-02-2004, 08:22 AM   #18
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The bittech review is poorly done and poorly measured. It is irrelevant. If the Reserator was on par with the SP94, Zalman would call it ultra-high performance, but it isn't.
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Unread 06-02-2004, 09:06 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9mmCensor
THe bit tech review does show that the resorator beats the sp94, but only just and it even preform worst, in some instances. I simple h2o setup with a swify block, a radiator and a low rpm fan and a small ehiem pump, would likely be a far better (and cheaper) alternative.
fair enough. agreed, and i believe your simple setup would outperform the reserator. i think i should have stated that this is softcore watercooling to avoid so much bashing.

i guess to improve the performance -easily- would be to use the mcw6000 waterblock in place of the zalman one??

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryAlpaca
The bittech review is poorly done and poorly measured. It is irrelevant. If the Reserator was on par with the SP94, Zalman would call it ultra-high performance, but it isn't.
in your first post you said it would be crap performance, and when i informed you that the heatsink it was compared to was the best you said the review is poorly done and poorly measured.. mmm...

first of all we're comparing a kit to a heatsink. not a waterblock, a radiator etc. so i guess we can forget about the performance level of each individual component and compare it as a whole -- and thats what bit-tech did.

IIRC the cpu thermal diode on an Intel processor is internal so i think the readings would be fairly consistent & i don't see how it can be poorly measured since its pretty straightforward *i do not own a p4 so i don't know for sure

and by the way, if you don't already know, it doesn't matter what the manufacturer call them. thermaltake claims their products are the best, so you are gonna believe it? thats what these forums are for.
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Unread 06-02-2004, 10:28 AM   #20
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Does it really matter if his processor is at 30C or 40C? Okay, he could probably do 10 degrees better using an actively cooled system of similar price, but what difference is that going to make? Sure, hypothetically his processor's life will be extended, but to what extent? It will last 20 years rather than 15? Who keeps a processor that long anyway? Or perhaps he could overlock more, 200mhz maybe... thats gonna give him an imperceptable speed improvement or an extra 12 3dMarks...

My point is that Watercooling as a hobby is about fun and fulfilling your personal goals. Sure, there are cases where you need it to cool exceptionally hot processors, but the majority of the time, its done for bragging rights, overclocking, or silence. If you visit www.silentpcreview.com you'll find there are people there as crazy about silence as the people with Dual Phase change setups are about cold - its just a different direction.

I like this site because it takes cooling very seriously, but deep down we have to remember we do this because we enjoy it.
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Unread 06-02-2004, 10:35 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gone_fishin
Paying $200+ to cut down on a few Db of noise is a fools use of money. No performance is gained over stock air cooling, and it certainly can't be compared to a normal watercooling loop. Simply relocating your box under your desk with stock cooling would have the same effect.
You're obviously not a music fanatic. If gmat was still here, he'd be all over that.
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Unread 06-02-2004, 10:38 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got KarmA?
I beg to disagree. It just doesn't come cheap, or small, or easy to maintain.
I will go along with that.
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Unread 06-02-2004, 02:49 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee116
I will go along with that.
*wink* *wink*
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Unread 06-02-2004, 04:18 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got KarmA?
Nice. .........
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Unread 06-02-2004, 10:37 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigben2k
You're obviously not a music fanatic. If gmat was still here, he'd be all over that.
Paying for a high quality sound system and fan noise are two different worlds. Crank out any stereo in the same room as your system, and your system fans would have to be winding out monsters to even be able to detect it interfering with your listening enjoyment.

The review is crap, the system is overpriced.

A do it yourselfer could get a cheap ass weak pump, a home made copper resevoir made with hacksaw cut fins (better than what they got), and the cheapest block on the market, all for easily half the price. Why hasn't anyone been doing it? Because it would still suck.
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