Two pumps config - serial or paralell? - Page 4

g.l.amour · 11-09-2002, 03:04 AM

pardon me for being so n00bie ; but isn't the dremeling really stressfull? i mean, if u got a baseplate thickness of 3mm at the least and 5mm at most. if u cut too deep with the dremel...

looks like it is a messy job. are all yours made with dremel rotor?

Puzzdre · 11-09-2002, 03:57 AM

With dremel you go as deep as needed to remove the walls between holes, not cutting deeper into the block, leaving the little conical pits made by drill bit head. In blocks I drilled so far, the holes are (more or less accurately) 4 mm deep (thx #Rotor!), so it leave you 6 mm for base thickness. Cutting the thin walls is relatively easy, but cutting into the solid block with dremel is...

MadDogMe · 11-09-2002, 04:10 AM

Rotor,Puzzdre, how about splashing out on one of those metal cutting blades that were in BB2K's radial thread?. $25 if I remember, but worth it in the long run?...

g.l.amour · 11-09-2002, 04:43 AM

isn't 6 mm alot for base plate thickness? i thought 3mm was considered to be optimal, or are u getting structural integrity problems then?

btw: anyone know what's up with rotor's site?

Puzzdre · 11-09-2002, 09:52 AM

@MadDogMe: yeah, good idea but 25$ is only for blade, and additional $$$ for arbor and stuff is becames too much IMO. And making something on your own for using that blade is IMO dangerous (lots of sharp teeth, moving fast...Alien?

)...it's doable and good for long run, but the question is would it pay for itself...dunno

@g.l.amour: I accesed #Rotor's site today without problems.
As for base thickness, I just listened to #Rotors experience. And according to this graph, 6 mm base is quite good if you want heat to spread good. Or, am I wrong?

I did a little cutting on the block today with 1.5 mm mill bit on my drill press, moving slowly the block and cutting the channels between the holes. Now my hand hurts cos' I held it firmly. It's time consuming and there's a clear and present danger of breaking the bit, but I did it as an experiment. I'll post the pic (I hope so) tomorrow of one half of the block cutted this way...

Cheers

g.l.amour · 11-09-2002, 12:05 PM

i will need to save this thread to my hdd somehow, its gonna contain all the info needed to make a cheapass, good performing block.

i will try rotor's site again. is it the dns2go url you got?

Puzzdre · 11-09-2002, 01:02 PM

Ooops, I cannot reach the #Rotor's site now...you were right, something IS wrong... Today morning I accesed it through the linked pic's in this thread, but now is not available...

the link points to
http://3rotor.homelinux.com/images/c...04482.JPG.html

but it's not working now...:shrug:

If you wanna I'll email you all the drawings I made in corel .cdr file (all the drawings of the blocks), just say so, no problem...

#Rotor · 11-09-2002, 03:12 PM

is it working now..... ? sorry

I'm no longer with DNS2GO....

use this one...
http://3rotor.homelinux.com/

you can also use any of my old links, and modify them by replacing the dns2go with homelinux

the rest of the url is still the same.

yes I cut all my blocks with the Dremel. those metal cutting disks are nice but they are too thick and the diameter on them is too big. Makes it impossible to get close enough o the sides without cutting into the sealing surface around the outside...

one thing, do not try and use those expensive Carbide/diamond wheels for Dremel... I tried one, $36 down the tubes....

they are meant for stuff like glass and ceramic. copper just destroys it in less then 10 seconds.

as for the effect of base thickness on the performance of the block, it absolutely depends on the design of the block. It is not a one size fits all affair. What might be true for a Maze3 will most definitely not hold any water with this design....

No PUN.....

Puzzdre · 11-09-2002, 03:21 PM

Yup, everything is fine now!

All those pics visible...again...

g.l.amour · 11-09-2002, 03:55 PM

testing some designs in autocad, man, it is more complicated (fun) than i first thought. every drill hole i drew, creates new problems for the next. i now realise that the designs u guys have are carrying more thought than i initially thought.

thx for the url

Puzzdre · 11-09-2002, 04:07 PM

Any luck with finding thick copper bars?

g.l.amour · 11-09-2002, 04:25 PM

got some addresses. will start calling around some starting tuesday. will be hard finding the small amounts usefull for us hobbyists. most important part is that i got the addresses ;-)

btw, do u have a sketch of the block when it is finished puzzdre? i imagine something with one inlet and 2 outlets...

can't wait for some new pix (or is it snowing on your balcony again ;-) )

edit: at rotor, got to your site again, and i feel kinda guilty for seeing that many good ideas out there. so , my Q, u seem to use no O-rings nor solder paste. are they well sealed like that with just the bolts tightened?

Puzzdre · 11-09-2002, 04:25 PM

Anybody, pls help me with this:

1. What diameter are the holes for holding the block to the mobo (I mean what dia I should drill through my block)?

2. Tapping (sp?) the holes - if I want to make the two halves of the block held together and reinforced with screws, like #Rotor have on his blocks, and if I want to tighten the halves with 3 mm dia screws, the question is - what dia should be the hole for tapping it to accept 3 mm screw? I found some taps (packed in 3 pieces, I presume that is for making initial thread with first, and advance in lateral thread depth with other two), but no info on what dia the hole must be for 3 mm screw. I know there are different kinds of threads, but this is something ordinary tapping set, sorry I didn't remember the thread size/step info from the box...

Pls. help!

g.l.amour · 11-09-2002, 04:32 PM

don't mind the outerlines, they are rough dimensions of my maybe to-come WB

dia is 6.1mm, well, u'll see

edit: i presume you are talking socket a dimensions (u r always talking cost effectiveness, lol, athlon is the way to go)

taken a bit from here:
http://www.dansdata.com/images/coolercomp/holes500.gif

and from here
http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...es+motherboard

took me about 2 hrs to find that info (was looking for xact same thing today)

Puzzdre · 11-09-2002, 04:41 PM

g.l. : for copper in small amounts, did you try to get it from machine shops, maybe you can use some of their leftovers?

No sketch I'm affraid, only in my head (and yours too, cos' you got it - it's central inlet, two outlets!). I must cut it than bring it back to the machine shop for drilling and tapping the large barb holes and also, they will make the barbs for me (I cannot buy them fabricated anywhere)

I'll try to finish one half tomorrow to post the pic, today I tried cutting through the holes in one of square pattern block half, but didn't manage to finish it (about one half)...

Yeah, it is cold on the balcony but nothing that doubling the socks, pants and other stuff on me won't beat. Today I got myself one plexy face shield, a little addition to safety...No snow for now, just copper flakes on the floor

Puzzdre · 11-09-2002, 04:50 PM

Thx m8!

Yeah, AMD is my way...kinda like it...(cost effective too!!!)

We're kinda outta sync here

with posts...

Think I'll have to try to learn drawing in ACad... who knows, maybe CNC'ing in few yr's...

(hope, hope...)

#Rotor · 11-09-2002, 04:52 PM

http://www.galaxydrill.com/drillsiz.htm

you will need to know the spec on the thread of the bolts.....

I most definitely do not just bolt the two plates together dry, it'l leake like a siv in that fashion..... there can only be GOOP.

but be careful with GOOP... it sticks like shit. you are going to have a real hard time getting the block open, once it's cured. the best way to pop it, is the use the tap, and screw it all the way into one of the fitting-threads, then just gently tighten, until it pops open, once that's done you can get a knive in and work the rest..... but for doing just from the side.... forget it... you are just going to ruine the side of your block....

Puzzdre · 11-09-2002, 04:57 PM

Wow! That was fast info and answer to my both questions!

Thx guys!

g.l.amour · 11-09-2002, 04:58 PM

the goop everyone in us is referring to, what the hell is it? some sort of glue, or silicone?

i'm gonna try finding some small shops. church ornament machiners seem to be the best bet upto now (i was amazed to find out)

btw for finding the barbs, i had to think and search. i was ready to do 150km's just to get 'em. finally it dawned on me that i could also chk the hydraulics and pneumatics store 100m from my work. eureka, barbs a volonté.

Puzzdre · 11-09-2002, 05:04 PM

First thing on monday - repair the flat tire and search for some hydraulics shops!

THX!

About the goop, I was about to ask the same question. It's a trade name, there are different kinds for different materials, but what is it (monocomponent/two component glue, epoxy, silicone, what?)!?

g.l.amour · 11-09-2002, 05:13 PM

i think the bathroom kind of silicone sealant must also work for that purpose.

btw puzzdre, ppl that sell brewery equipment are sure to have barbs, the lines that connect the beer tap in cafe to vat in basement 'can' be the regular hose barb type. one golden tip!!! print a picture from a hose barb, + the npt" and regular " list of what u want. because i don't know the cro word for hosebard, but i surely don't know the dutch word for it. and if u ask a regular hometown shop, they will definetely not know the word hosebarb. that expression went something like this; one picture shows more than a thousand words? lol

Puzzdre · 11-09-2002, 05:28 PM

LOOOOL!!!!!!

I know *exactly*what you mean. There is no widely used cro word for hosebarb, so first it involved lots of other words and wriggly movements of hand trying to explain, so I bought one cheap pvc ordinary pipe fitting and carried it around with me, and asking for something like this, but metal, with threaded end, and ofcourse, bigger ID...Gained much more success judging the faces of the people working in shops, but the answers were all the same - sorry, no...and You won't find it, go to the machine shop, have them make some for you...

Yeah, different countries, same problems

g.l.amour · 11-09-2002, 05:57 PM

btw, its been 2.5 yrs since i was using acad. this is pure fun. THX puzzdre for making me do this old passtime of mine again. in graduate school i used to have 6hrs/week acad for 3 yrs. worked 3 yrs doing acad cnc window arch designs + the cnc prg's to make those windows (wood), before moving to PC world.

#Rotor · 11-09-2002, 06:53 PM

Goop is a lot like silicone, it cures in open air, and it's very very strong once dry, so much so, that if you put goop into the groove ment for the o-ring, squeeze it shut, and let it cure, you will have yourself a nicely shaped, very strong elastic band. that is if you can get it to come out of the groove nicely....

Silicone work very well for sealing the blocks too, but I prefer Goop.

g.l.amour · 11-09-2002, 07:09 PM

don't u get bored from hearing all the thk uz? well here's another one. thx

11-09-2002, 03:57 AM	#77
Puzzdre Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Croatia Posts: 969	With dremel you go as deep as needed to remove the walls between holes, not cutting deeper into the block, leaving the little conical pits made by drill bit head. In blocks I drilled so far, the holes are (more or less accurately) 4 mm deep (thx #Rotor!), so it leave you 6 mm for base thickness. Cutting the thin walls is relatively easy, but cutting into the solid block with dremel is... __________________ 'Out of cheese error... ...please reboot the universe (press the GBL to continue)'

11-09-2002, 01:02 PM	#82
Puzzdre Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Croatia Posts: 969	Ooops, I cannot reach the #Rotor's site now...you were right, something IS wrong... Today morning I accesed it through the linked pic's in this thread, but now is not available... the link points to http://3rotor.homelinux.com/images/c...04482.JPG.html but it's not working now...:shrug: If you wanna I'll email you all the drawings I made in corel .cdr file (all the drawings of the blocks), just say so, no problem... __________________ 'Out of cheese error... ...please reboot the universe (press the GBL to continue)'

11-09-2002, 03:12 PM	#83
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	is it working now..... ? sorry I'm no longer with DNS2GO.... use this one... http://3rotor.homelinux.com/ you can also use any of my old links, and modify them by replacing the dns2go with homelinux the rest of the url is still the same. yes I cut all my blocks with the Dremel. those metal cutting disks are nice but they are too thick and the diameter on them is too big. Makes it impossible to get close enough o the sides without cutting into the sealing surface around the outside... one thing, do not try and use those expensive Carbide/diamond wheels for Dremel... I tried one, $36 down the tubes.... they are meant for stuff like glass and ceramic. copper just destroys it in less then 10 seconds. as for the effect of base thickness on the performance of the block, it absolutely depends on the design of the block. It is not a one size fits all affair. What might be true for a Maze3 will most definitely not hold any water with this design.... No PUN..... __________________ There is no Spoon.... Last edited by #Rotor; 11-09-2002 at 03:21 PM.

11-09-2002, 03:21 PM	#84
Puzzdre Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Croatia Posts: 969	Yup, everything is fine now! All those pics visible...again... __________________ 'Out of cheese error... ...please reboot the universe (press the GBL to continue)'

11-09-2002, 04:07 PM	#86
Puzzdre Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Croatia Posts: 969	Any luck with finding thick copper bars? __________________ 'Out of cheese error... ...please reboot the universe (press the GBL to continue)'

11-09-2002, 03:04 AM	#76
g.l.amour Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: on da case Posts: 933	pardon me for being so n00bie ; but isn't the dremeling really stressfull? i mean, if u got a baseplate thickness of 3mm at the least and 5mm at most. if u cut too deep with the dremel... looks like it is a messy job. are all yours made with dremel rotor?

11-09-2002, 04:10 AM	#78
MadDogMe Thermophile Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just shut up ;) ... Posts: 1,068	Rotor,Puzzdre, how about splashing out on one of those metal cutting blades that were in BB2K's radial thread?. $25 if I remember, but worth it in the long run?...

11-09-2002, 04:43 AM	#79
g.l.amour Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: on da case Posts: 933	isn't 6 mm alot for base plate thickness? i thought 3mm was considered to be optimal, or are u getting structural integrity problems then? btw: anyone know what's up with rotor's site?

11-09-2002, 12:05 PM	#81
g.l.amour Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: on da case Posts: 933	i will need to save this thread to my hdd somehow, its gonna contain all the info needed to make a cheapass, good performing block. i will try rotor's site again. is it the dns2go url you got?

11-09-2002, 03:55 PM	#85
g.l.amour Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: on da case Posts: 933	testing some designs in autocad, man, it is more complicated (fun) than i first thought. every drill hole i drew, creates new problems for the next. i now realise that the designs u guys have are carrying more thought than i initially thought. thx for the url

11-09-2002, 04:25 PM	#87
g.l.amour Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: on da case Posts: 933	got some addresses. will start calling around some starting tuesday. will be hard finding the small amounts usefull for us hobbyists. most important part is that i got the addresses ;-) btw, do u have a sketch of the block when it is finished puzzdre? i imagine something with one inlet and 2 outlets... can't wait for some new pix (or is it snowing on your balcony again ;-) ) edit: at rotor, got to your site again, and i feel kinda guilty for seeing that many good ideas out there. so , my Q, u seem to use no O-rings nor solder paste. are they well sealed like that with just the bolts tightened?

11-09-2002, 04:41 PM	#90
Puzzdre Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Croatia Posts: 969	g.l. : for copper in small amounts, did you try to get it from machine shops, maybe you can use some of their leftovers? No sketch I'm affraid, only in my head (and yours too, cos' you got it - it's central inlet, two outlets!). I must cut it than bring it back to the machine shop for drilling and tapping the large barb holes and also, they will make the barbs for me (I cannot buy them fabricated anywhere) I'll try to finish one half tomorrow to post the pic, today I tried cutting through the holes in one of square pattern block half, but didn't manage to finish it (about one half)... Yeah, it is cold on the balcony but nothing that doubling the socks, pants and other stuff on me won't beat. Today I got myself one plexy face shield, a little addition to safety...No snow for now, just copper flakes on the floor __________________ 'Out of cheese error... ...please reboot the universe (press the GBL to continue)'

11-09-2002, 04:50 PM	#91
Puzzdre Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Croatia Posts: 969	Thx m8! Yeah, AMD is my way...kinda like it...(cost effective too!!!) We're kinda outta sync here with posts... Think I'll have to try to learn drawing in ACad... who knows, maybe CNC'ing in few yr's... (hope, hope...) __________________ 'Out of cheese error... ...please reboot the universe (press the GBL to continue)'

11-09-2002, 04:52 PM	#92
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	http://www.galaxydrill.com/drillsiz.htm you will need to know the spec on the thread of the bolts..... I most definitely do not just bolt the two plates together dry, it'l leake like a siv in that fashion..... there can only be GOOP. but be careful with GOOP... it sticks like shit. you are going to have a real hard time getting the block open, once it's cured. the best way to pop it, is the use the tap, and screw it all the way into one of the fitting-threads, then just gently tighten, until it pops open, once that's done you can get a knive in and work the rest..... but for doing just from the side.... forget it... you are just going to ruine the side of your block.... __________________ There is no Spoon....

11-09-2002, 04:57 PM	#93
Puzzdre Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Croatia Posts: 969	Wow! That was fast info and answer to my both questions! Thx guys! __________________ 'Out of cheese error... ...please reboot the universe (press the GBL to continue)'

11-09-2002, 04:58 PM	#94
g.l.amour Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: on da case Posts: 933	the goop everyone in us is referring to, what the hell is it? some sort of glue, or silicone? i'm gonna try finding some small shops. church ornament machiners seem to be the best bet upto now (i was amazed to find out) btw for finding the barbs, i had to think and search. i was ready to do 150km's just to get 'em. finally it dawned on me that i could also chk the hydraulics and pneumatics store 100m from my work. eureka, barbs a volonté.

11-09-2002, 05:04 PM	#95
Puzzdre Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Croatia Posts: 969	First thing on monday - repair the flat tire and search for some hydraulics shops! THX! About the goop, I was about to ask the same question. It's a trade name, there are different kinds for different materials, but what is it (monocomponent/two component glue, epoxy, silicone, what?)!? __________________ 'Out of cheese error... ...please reboot the universe (press the GBL to continue)'

11-09-2002, 05:13 PM	#96
g.l.amour Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: on da case Posts: 933	i think the bathroom kind of silicone sealant must also work for that purpose. btw puzzdre, ppl that sell brewery equipment are sure to have barbs, the lines that connect the beer tap in cafe to vat in basement 'can' be the regular hose barb type. one golden tip!!! print a picture from a hose barb, + the npt" and regular " list of what u want. because i don't know the cro word for hosebard, but i surely don't know the dutch word for it. and if u ask a regular hometown shop, they will definetely not know the word hosebarb. that expression went something like this; one picture shows more than a thousand words? lol

11-09-2002, 05:28 PM	#97
Puzzdre Cooling Savant Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Croatia Posts: 969	LOOOOL!!!!!! I know exactlywhat you mean. There is no widely used cro word for hosebarb, so first it involved lots of other words and wriggly movements of hand trying to explain, so I bought one cheap pvc ordinary pipe fitting and carried it around with me, and asking for something like this, but metal, with threaded end, and ofcourse, bigger ID...Gained much more success judging the faces of the people working in shops, but the answers were all the same - sorry, no...and You won't find it, go to the machine shop, have them make some for you... Yeah, different countries, same problems __________________ 'Out of cheese error... ...please reboot the universe (press the GBL to continue)'

11-09-2002, 05:57 PM	#98
g.l.amour Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: on da case Posts: 933	btw, its been 2.5 yrs since i was using acad. this is pure fun. THX puzzdre for making me do this old passtime of mine again. in graduate school i used to have 6hrs/week acad for 3 yrs. worked 3 yrs doing acad cnc window arch designs + the cnc prg's to make those windows (wood), before moving to PC world.

11-09-2002, 06:53 PM	#99
#Rotor Cooling Savant Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dione, sector 4s1256 Posts: 852	Goop is a lot like silicone, it cures in open air, and it's very very strong once dry, so much so, that if you put goop into the groove ment for the o-ring, squeeze it shut, and let it cure, you will have yourself a nicely shaped, very strong elastic band. that is if you can get it to come out of the groove nicely.... Silicone work very well for sealing the blocks too, but I prefer Goop. __________________ There is no Spoon....

11-09-2002, 07:09 PM	#100
g.l.amour Cooling Savant Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: on da case Posts: 933	don't u get bored from hearing all the thk uz? well here's another one. thx

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