"The ideal water block"

[Morpheus Kain]

Ok, that is cool. I was thinking more along the lines of the channel wrapping around, it wouldn't take a very serious modification to what you already have to achieve that and then you would still only have one outlet!

[Bruno Facca]

I understand what you're saying, I'm not sure but it might be something to try in the future, it took me a long time to settle for a design for this block so I wouldn't make such a "big" change now. Anyway there will be other blocks coming in the future and I'll probably try this.

Thanks
Bruno Facca

[Morpheus Kain]

Alright sound cool. What you have now seems to be pretty good so the results should be quite interesting!

[Bruno Facca]

*Important* please read:

Before the news I would like everyone that is reading this to post (if there is still anyone else besides Morpheus Kain ) saying if you prefer a welded top or one that has 4 screws (one in each corner) and comes sealed with silicone and with the screws tightened. Both would be tested under high pressure before shipping, my worry about welding the top is that many people don't have access to soldering gear if they want to open their block and close it again, plus the hose fittings will be welded (in the bottom part of the block's top so it won't be visible) they are put in their holes under pressure but they could "fall" when you heat the top to take it off so it would take some skill to solder everything back on it's place. I got until the end of this week (wich is starting today) to decide this so don't forget to give your opinion before that.

Now to the news:

There was some delay because of some details that came up. Today, along with someone who has been working with casting for 40 years I did lots of experiments to see how would I get the best results, there were 2 issues: the air inside the molds had nowhere to go so it formed bubbles in some of them, that is solved now, all I had to do is add some thin air exit holes. The other issue wich I will not get in detail because is too hard to explain will require me to build around 15 "casting boxes" (I didn't predict that) so I'll start doing that on monday. Hopefully I will have something like 10 blocks ready (I mean even packaged) in 7-11 days.

These small issues were solved and today I got some impressive results in these experiments I made, I think you will like the final results very much.

Thank you
Bruno Facca

[bigben2k]

Bruno,

First, I have to say that I admire your persistance. Even with few or no replies, you're still here, posting news, more than a month later.

I would not assume that the casting process you use is too complicated for us to understand, you'd be very surprised.

I hear you about the air bubble problem, I assume you modified the mold to take care of that, in such a way as to have some protrusion that could be cut off, or something.

Your prototypes are very shiny, and that's always good! How did you get them that way?

As for the top question, I'd have to go with a screw top, because I'm the type that will fiddle with things, take them apart, and put them back together. As long as you do the pressure test on each unit, I think it'll be good.

Good luck, and keep us posted!

[utabintarbo]

I agree with bb2k - go with the screws.

[Bruno Facca]

bigben2k: I didn't assume the casting proce ss is too complicated for you to understand, on the contrary, it's too complicated for me to explain because my english is too poor . You're right about the mold. The prototype was machined in a bench grinder first then 280 sandpaper, 600 sandpaper and finally metal polisher (the kind that leaves no residues).

Thanks
Bruno Facca

[bigben2k]

ROTFLOL!

Ok, then maybe you could indulge us with a few pictures of the process. You know us americans, we're proud of our stuff, and that's because we know how it's made (well, most of the time!)

[V12|V12]

Hey all I'm back again, had to move out of old place, to folks's crib, I HATE IT, then I'm going to be moving back to a new place, then I'll have move frequent Inet access...

Bruno, hey yeah, post them pics, I and everyone else would love to check them out, I'd be willing to purchase one of yer blocks, if I can see it etc... Oh yeah and if the price isn't a Swiftech! haha

[Bruno Facca]

Sorry for taking so long to post back, I had some personal issues I had to solve in the last few days plus I had to reinstall everything in my PC.

The modeling gear I told you I would have to make is finally ready, took me more time than I figured but they're "perfect" now. Also I just ran out of gas for the blast furnace and I can only buy more on monday so I'll make the molds in the meantime and cast it on monday. As for the tools I'm developing to make the finnish better/easier/faster are almost done, I'll have to wait until I cast so I can get some "average" measures I need to put the pieces (of the tools) together.

@bigben2k: I can't post "work in progress" pics because of 2 reasons: 1 - As I described before my capture process is veeery slow, so I would be delaying things even more to do that. 2 - The patenting process is almost done but not done yet so, you know... As soon as this batch I'm working right now is finished I'll post some more cool pics, even some of the process (the model and the blast furnace) also some requested pics as my wc rig, radiator and stuff...

@V12|V12: The price is more like a cheaptech

Thanks
Bruno Facca

[V12|V12]

Yeah some pics would be nice... could you post some when you finally get the patent and everything worked out? I and others would love to see how things were constructed etc... I'll definiately buy one if they are cheap like you say... then maybe I can get some better C/W numbers....

BBen... Got any ideas on Pump---CPU Vs Rad---CPU temps/flowrate are concerned? My system seemed to be cooler w/pump---CPU which, in theory, would preheat outgoing water, but would have the most flow....

[bigben2k]

Actually, it's a myth (maybe pH should add it to the list) that flow decreases, the further away it is from the pump.

If the pump creates 100 gph flow, then that's the flow at any point in the system, but since the diameter of every point in a rig is not the same, then the flow speed changes, but never the flow rate.

What changes at every point also, is the pressure: as the water is restricted through all the points, there is a pressure drop, relative to the pump outlet. Each one of those points creates turbulence, and that would be where the pump heat comes from. Otherwise, pump heat comes from the impeller turning around but not moving water as fast as possible.

So although the pump itself produces heat, so does the blocks restrictions. Just out of curiosity, is there a 90 deg bend at the outlet of your rad? Look closely: is the rad barb a 90 deg bend from where the water comes out of the rad fins?

I'm unable to otherwise explain why you would get better results with pump -> CPU -> Rad, versus pump -> rad -> CPU.

[Rob C]

I just found this thread - sounds like a good block you've got there Bruno, can't wait to see the finished version! I don't know whether you've made the decision or not yet, but I'd also say go with the screws for fitting the top, rather than soldering it. This allows people to open the block and clean it thoroughly, rather than just having to flush it out with some cleaning solution and hope. I've got a two year old DangerDen block which I reckon could do with cleaning out by now, but I can't get the top off

Plus, with a screw-on top, it would be easy to experiment with different materials - for instance perspex/lucite, I know there's plenty of people out there who like the clear-topped blocks. No reason to leave them out of your customer base

Well done so far, I admire the effort you've put into getting this far. Good luck with the rest of the project!

[Bruno Facca]

It's very important that you read the text instead of just looking at the pics, I know not much people do that but anyway...

Before I forget, it's definitive, we're going for screws + silicone for the sealing of the top/bottom contact. If you want to clean it just remove the screws, pull a little hard so the silicone will come off and then add a little silicone when you're closing it, you may not even need it but just in case..

I know, I know, it's wed I told you they would be cast on sun.. But I think it has worth the wait. Here they are, the "raw" pics as lots of people requested. These blocks were just taken out the molds and all I did was clean them a little so you can see the inside, they have no finnish at all and they're still pretty dirty but you asked for it . Of course these still have to be machined and when they're finished they will look much better than the previous pic I showed you, also, that shiny hehe


"Rough" blocks (without any machining)


I casted 9 of them, some are exactly as these first pictures but some came with a very small "defect" if you can call it that way, there was a little copper accumulation in a corner, it wouldn't affect performance at all, just looks, so I would like to know if you think these "deffective" blocks are sellable or not. These little metal accumulations were caused by the melted copper being spilled in the mold too fast, the ones that were spilled slower came out to be "perfect" so I could cast again and get a buch of block without that little flaw or I can just make these available (after finnishing them of course), what you think?


"Defective" block

@Rob C: Thanks

Let me know your toughts on these
Thanks
Bruno Facca

[Puzzdre]

Great work !!!!!!

Casting blocks seem very interesting process, considering the great things one comes to at the end... Too bad the copper melts on so high temp, so no home blast furnaces!

Tell us more about the casting process, making molds, problems etc pls!

PS: do you know how much the shipping/postage fee would be for one block to Croatia?

[bigben2k]

I wouldn't even call it a defect: it's just a small handling error in the casting process. To tell you the truth, it's so small that I'm not sure what defect you're talking about (You'd have to take a couple more pictures from a lower angle).

It certainly wouldn't affect performance, so it's not a problem, IMO.

[Raccoon]

So now you are going solely with the 4 bolt design?

I personally like the tab holding blocks, but the block im using right now is much lighter.

It also takes something more innovative to hold it with the tabs.

But the design looks cool, and so does the casting method, can't wait to see one of them all final and everything.

[morphling1]

Great job Bruno, this is the first time I saw someone go and try casting waterblock, I thought of it once, but the price for hss steel mold was too much, I was thinking preasure casting though. They turn out pretty good, just wonder how will the block look when milled, if there will be any bubles and how porous will be. Did you drop any additives in melted copper for better casting?

[Bruno Facca]

I'm glad most people liked the results so far.

@Puzzdre: 1058 celcius, that was not easy to achieve but once you have a proper blast furnace is not that hard, except that it spends a lot of gas. Shipping to Croatia is a little more expensive than to the US, USD$13. Just out of curiosity why can't forks and spoons be sent to your coutry by mail?

@Raccoon: As I said before, there will be 4 versions of the block, one for 4 holes, one for socket lugs and each of these will be available in 1/2 and 3/8 hose fittings.

@morphling1: I was also thinking about pressure casting at first, I got some air bubble problems in the beggining but I managed to make the molds in a way that the air could escape so I never got bubbles again. It will be that porous in the inside (good for performance) and the outside will be machined until it looks like a damn mirror . I didn't use anny additive, just pure copper. I never heard of these additives, what are they?

Thanks
Bruno Facca

[V12|V12]

NICE! Hey, sorry I didn't get back with you in a fashionable time, I've been working on another custom "Brazed-HomeDePot-block!" It's going to work nice, I can feel it, but anyhow, I KNOW I'm going to be getting one of them blocks that you cast! I was one of the first to show interest, but good work!

About that "flaw" that flaw could actually help and add to more turbulence! So what most people consider a "mistake," usually turns out to be a hidden jew of genius; Posted-Notes, Teflon (GOD!), all kinds of stuff...

How much did you say these blocks were going to be? I'd like to get a 4-bolt style.... GOod work

[Puzzdre]

Originally posted by Bruno Facca


@Puzzdre: 1058 celcius, that was not easy to achieve but once you have a proper blast furnace is not that hard, except that it spends a lot of gas. Shipping to Croatia is a little more expensive than to the US, USD$13. Just out of curiosity why can't forks and spoons be sent to your coutry by mail?

:shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: !!!!!

LOL !!!!

This is the first time I heard of such a...a stupidity !!!!

Maybe people who make the regulations and the laws in my country still eat with their bare hand (I wouldn't be suprised...)

Really, this is just another stupidity of the our national post office or such...

Dunno, maybe they think it's a new weapon against somebody or something... or maybe those spoons are smaller than the average mouth here...dunno...

stupid, stupid, stupid !

[bigben2k]

Bruno, if you're going with a screw top, what's your solution to sealing it?

Paul has a couple of informative posts in the waterblock design section.

linky

[Marvin]

Hi bruno, People from Brazil are interested in your block. Please check www.hardmob.com.br
Congratulations. Nice work.

[Bruno Facca]

@V12|V12: I would also like to see some of your work, maybe you could e-mail me some pics when you have them.. The 4 bolts model will probably be available before the socket lugs one, theý will be USD$15.
About the "flaw" you may be right I'm glad you liked it.

@Puzzdre:

or maybe those spoons are smaller than the average mouth here

LOL yeah maybe that's it hehehe

@bibben2k: the contact surface between top and bottom will be very flat so it should seal itself without need for anything else but anyway I will be adding some silicone before screwing it, the excess will be thrown out when I aplly pressure to the screws so it will only be in any placeds that the water would pass (if there are any), that way both parts can still exchange some heat, so we don't waste the top surface area. Thanks for the link.

@Marvin: Check your e-mail please.

Thank you
Bruno Facca

[Bruno Facca]

I'm giving those 8 blocks finnish (they will be sold as a pre-relase), here's what I'm doing for further performance testing:

- 1 block with wall thickness reduced to +-2mm, not the internal divisions just the outside walls, bottom is "regular" thickness. Normal wall thickness for the sides is 3.8mm.

- 1 block with bottom wall thickness reduced to 2.5mm. Normal bottom thickness is 3.5mm

- 1 block with height reduced (as in some of the top shaved off) to <I'm not sure exactly how much for as I still didn't do this one>

- 1 block with the water inlet right above the CPU core, this one will have 2 water outlets, one on each side

The other 4 are "regulars", the last one I mentioned will have only it's top modded so it can also be "converted to a regular" just by switching tops.

As soon as I'm done making these blocks/mods I just described (don't forget I still have to cast the tops) I will have some extensive performance (Cº/W) data

Thanks
Bruno Facca