Low cost flow meter?

[starbuck3733t]

Version 2.0 should really, really, own. esp. for graphical displays. The whole thing is written in .NET (w00t) with uber easy interfaces to use when you're doing plugins. I've interopped with speedfan (which is written in delphi) using C# before, and it worked fine. But delphi still sucks.

[JSimmons]

But .NET requires 25mb of runtime (what a waste of hard drive space).

[bobkoure]

Originally Posted by Skoddelos

..."floating metal ball" of some sort...

There are already solutions from the automotive field. For instance, LIQUID LEVEL ALARM IC

[bobkoure]

Originally Posted by JSimmons

But .NET requires 25mb of runtime.

[rant]
...and is a total nightmare if you're trying to interface it with a device/language that the .NET providers didn't foresee (spent a very miserable month making an already-built .NET system work with RS232 of all things... Problem was the original prototype was built by a hardware engineer who only knew VB - and the "powers that be" decided to just use the prototype as a "real product".)

If you need multi platform graphical support, have a look at wxWidgets. I've built graphical apps that (with an appropriate re-compile) work on Win, Mac, and Linux and are not bloat-ware - and is easily connected with lower level modules.
And if you want fast-built multi-platform apps, there's Java (netbeans looks pretty good). BTW, netbeans and wxWidgets are both free. Beats me why someone would limit themselves with .NET other than "doesn't know any better" - or maybe "wants to get really locked into the wintel world"
[/rant]

[MadHacker]

Originally Posted by bobkoure

There are already solutions from the automotive field. For instance, LIQUID LEVEL ALARM IC

implementing something like this and having it placed in my resevoir would then have zero impact on flow. to bad my electronics knowledge sux

[Brians256]

Originally Posted by bobkoure

[rant]
...and is a total nightmare if you're trying to interface it with a device/language that the .NET providers didn't foresee (spent a very miserable month making an already-built .NET system work with RS232 of all things... Problem was the original prototype was built by a hardware engineer who only knew VB - and the "powers that be" decided to just use the prototype as a "real product".)

If you need multi platform graphical support, have a look at wxWidgets. I've built graphical apps that (with an appropriate re-compile) work on Win, Mac, and Linux and are not bloat-ware - and is easily connected with lower level modules.
And if you want fast-built multi-platform apps, there's Java (netbeans looks pretty good). BTW, netbeans and wxWidgets are both free. Beats me why someone would limit themselves with .NET other than "doesn't know any better" - or maybe "wants to get really locked into the wintel world"
[/rant]

I have to preface this with my personal feelings. I really hate defending Microsoft. I prefer Unix. I prefer open source tools. I hate using a proprietary language locked to a single proprietary platform. I even have a license plate in my cube that reads "UNIX" with "Live Free or Die!" as the byline. I used 386BSD, back when it was the first free Unix (not counting Minix). That was BEFORE Linux was even released. I loved my SunOS workstation.

But...

.NET is a nightmare of epic proportions. I know. I've been working on a .NET project for the last 2 years with four other SW engineers (that might tell you the scope of the project). However, given certain limitations, it is better than C++ and MFC.

First, the company isn't interested in portability. I made quite a row over this, but the company just isn't interested. That makes the largest of the .NET problems go away.

Second, the company isn't interested in doing anything exotic with the program, such as interfacing with odd HW, doing anything timing sensitive, or running with a memory budget. In other words, the company is happy with bloatware.

Finally, they wanted something that is low risk. Microsoft has a much better track record than Sun. Sorry, Sun. Microsoft isn't dying like you are. I like Sun. I like Sun much more than Microsoft, but Sun isn't taking marketshare from Microsoft. It's the other way around. So, our customer base in 5 years is likely to be more Microsoft-based than Sun-based.

The benefits of .NET (same as Java) are that it does away with a primary source of software errors: memory management. I dread working on someone else's code that has a memory leak or a use of uninitialized memory. Also, the IDE is fairly nice, even if it wants gobs of memory and occasionally crashes. Gcc crashes occasionally, too.

As long as you exhale, use plenty of lube, relax and smile, using .NET can be OK. Just don't expect it to work well doing anything unexpected. Do things that Microsoft is interested in, the MicrosoftWay(tm), and it works well.

[Risky]

My LCD is a Crystalfontz (4x20- USB) not a MO, but I was looking at the iMon VFD unit as well.

Any hacking efforts from me will be VB as that's my background (well really I'm more of a database developer). I wanted to get some ibutton/1-wire support in there too and that has a .net API now as well.

While we're at it, my other monitoring project was to use a current transducer to measure pump (and possibly PSU) current and have a power consumption display.

I was planning to do this on 1-wire with a DS2450 and have the parts, but also considered using the Velleman K8055 kit which has various I/O options.

Any other recommended I/O solutions?

[JSimmons]

Originally Posted by Brians256

As long as you exhale, use plenty of lube, relax and smile, using .NET can be OK. Just don't expect it to work well doing anything unexpected. Do things that Microsoft is interested in, the MicrosoftWay(tm), and it works well.

I've been a programmer for over 30 years, and I'm all for making my job easier, but .NET is just plain a bad idea. I think Microsoft is herding us all to licenced access to the "API" (which they don't want to call it anymore).

[starbuck3733t]

First: I'm a wintel guy mostly. When something needs to run on linux, that's fine by me - I know how to do it. but for my workstation I'm quite happy with windows (server 2003 here).

I may be way off base, but when longhorn drops, most everything that you have to do API calls from .NET now will be directly into the framework. I like the framework (and I don't call 25MB a waste) because most everything I need is already there. And that makes my life easy. Interfacing with hardware is somewhat weak now, but there are managed RS232 components for sale, or you can just interop with something else (I use Io32.dll for my VFD software) and be just as dangerous as you were in the unmanaged way of doing things.

Call me lazy, but when I can do things the easy way, I will. I still program in C and ASM on microcontrollers, though

Although this is never a holy war I wish to get into, the discussion is still good.

Edit: and that chip is pretty cool. I'll take a look at the sheet in a bit more depth when I'm not at work.

[bobkoure]

Originally Posted by starbuck3733t

Edit: and that chip is pretty cool.

IMO it's especially cool at the price.
Of course, what I want is a pair of something like tyhese that can do a differential level detection - use a very small restriction and the bernoulli effect (and get the sensors at the same height) and you should see, and be able to detect a height differential when coolant is flowing. Yes, there'd be a restriction, but it shouldn't have to be much at all...

Sorry about joining in the religious war over .NET. I just had a bad experience with it. If it does what you want, then it's the tool you need. I'm just going to multiply my rates by at least three if a prospective customer mentions ".NET" and "hardware" or "communication" in the same request.

[starbuck3733t]

LOL... feel free to 3x it - then farm some it off to me and cut me in for a 1/3 of it!

[JSimmons]

Here's an idea for a flow sensor:



Granted, it won't tell you how fast the water is moving, but I think it will tell you whether you have flow or not.

[Dave]

Thats a cool idea, not a flow meter, but still a good back up.

I have flow meter working well now, going to try different style paddle wheels to see changes in flow.

I am using a 1/2" passage, and seems very accurate from 2-10 l/m so far.

Dave

[Risky]

If the meter has a 1/2" ID passage, would it still read true if it was fitted to smaller ID tubing? I'm just concerned that it would read fine for say 7mm or 9mm ID

[JSimmons]

I think a flow meter would be better because it's not as dependant orn physical orientation as the lever-operated sensor

As far as your flow meter goes, if you're going to have a circuit board on it (or somehow attached to it via wires), it would sure be nice if we could plug a bi-polar LED to it so we can see from the front panel if anything goes wrong. without having the case open (I know, it's a shock to know that some folks don't have their case peppered with windows and sitting on their desk, but that's me - grin).

[Dave]

The only the internal passage is 1/2, so 1/2 tubing and below will give good reading.

Will see about LED, but still some time away JS

[MadHacker]

Originally Posted by JSimmons

I think a flow meter would be better because it's not as dependant orn physical orientation as the lever-operated sensor

As far as your flow meter goes, if you're going to have a circuit board on it (or somehow attached to it via wires), it would sure be nice if we could plug a bi-polar LED to it so we can see from the front panel if anything goes wrong. without having the case open (I know, it's a shock to know that some folks don't have their case peppered with windows and sitting on their desk, but that's me - grin).

Sounds like a good idea...
but then how low a flow before there is a problem...
now we are going to need something to enable setting the set point as to when it is a good flow...
and to add to the LED idea it would be nice if it was either a 2 color LED, Green for good and red for bad..
or even 3 color led(do they make those?) so that we could have a warning color in
between?
if we want to go realy exotic.. perhaps a bar led to show a range, usefull with people that are cooling more then one machine with a radbox.

[JSimmons]

Originally Posted by MadHacker

Sounds like a good idea...
but then how low a flow before there is a problem...
now we are going to need something to enable setting the set point as to when it is a good flow...
and to add to the LED idea it would be nice if it was either a 2 color LED, Green for good and red for bad..
or even 3 color led(do they make those?) so that we could have a warning color in
between?
if we want to go realy exotic.. perhaps a bar led to show a range, usefull with people that are cooling more then one machine with a radbox.

How about hooking it up to an airhorn, or maybe have it dial your cel phone.

But seriously, a bi-polar LED is one that turns green or red depending on direction of current. They also make the tri-color LED's (they have three pins instead of just 2), and they're not that much more difficult to connect, but in either case, the set-point functionality would probably be a requirement for a bi-polar or tri-color LED to work. I have two separate loops. LED hookups would be fine for me.

[Risky]

The key thing for a flow meter is getting a tach signal bach to the motherboard. It you're looking for binary LED output then really a flow switch is the way to go.

[samcat]

Originally Posted by MadHacker

No Sh!t...
but if i want TBalancer plugin to work in LCDC...
i have no other option... :shrug:

What about interfacing with MBM??? As mbm has full plugin support, and LCDC (and many others) support reading MBM sensor readings...

Just a thought!

Cya,
Sam C

[MadHacker]

Originally Posted by Risky

The key thing for a flow meter is getting a tach signal bach to the motherboard. It you're looking for binary LED output then really a flow switch is the way to go.

Perhaps have a addon modual?
A seperate device that could plug into the the output of the flow meter that could determin a setpoint in rpm?
this could easily be made by someone with electronics experience...

Originally Posted by samcat

What about interfacing with MBM??? As mbm has full plugin support, and LCDC (and many others) support reading MBM sensor readings...

Just a thought!

Cya,
Sam C

if it plugs into a MB header then all that would be needed would be a devisor.
MB monitor could read that easily enough.
if a USB solution is to be used...
I have done some interface programming with FTDI chips linky
and is quite simple to implement.. don't know about the electronics side...

[MadHacker]

any news?
10char

[nexxo]

I have a Swissflow SF800. It's 50 euros, and hooks more or less straight to a fan header on your motherboard. It is reliable, extremely long lasting, has very low flow resistance and get this: it is very accurate. It emits 100 pulses per second per litre flow and its range is from 0.3 to 20 litres per minute.

I hooked one up to a fan header, told MBM to divide the signal by six, and presto: flow in millilitres right there on my desktop. If I feed the data into Samurize it will display a pretty graph of my choice on the desktop, and litres per minute to the third decimal if I want it. No fuss.

It's tiny and comes with 3/8" BSP thread on either end so you just screw it into your existing setup (well, I did anyway). It's the black thing on the Aquatube with the cable coming out:



If you want a flow switch, Gentech does one with 3/8" BSP connections that operates with a (weak) spring-loaded valve:



As such it can be mounted in any position. But if you don't want any moving parts at all, Gentech does this little black oblong box, again with 3/8" BSP connections, which measures flow through ultrasound.

[Dave]

News... yes, I can not get time on any of our CNC machines, both at C-Systems and AVT

Sorry both companies are very busy right now.

[MadHacker]

Originally Posted by Dave

News... yes, I can not get time on any of our CNC machines, both at C-Systems and AVT

Sorry both companies are very busy right now.

how does your product you are making compare to the Swissflow SF800?
cheeper? less resistance? bling?