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General Liquid/Water Cooling Discussion For discussion about Full Cooling System kits, or general cooling topics. Keep specific cooling items like pumps, radiators, etc... in their specific forums. |
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06-28-2004, 05:36 PM | #226 | |
Cooling Savant
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06-28-2004, 09:57 PM | #227 | |
Thermophile
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Much of my fumbling math was done assuming 25C water, and the kinematic viscosity that goes along with that. That was what was used to drive the basis of the design, which then got refined through emperical results (and a rough attempt at adapting the maths to fit). I hadn't really anticipated 25% glycol viscosities and the effects that could have. |
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06-28-2004, 10:13 PM | #228 | |
Thermophile
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Have decided not to wait any longer and have submitted the refined design to the machinists already. I figure by the time that the blocks get back I can do a shoot-out between the old and the new, with plain and glycol-gooped water, and decide then on which way to swing. The new block could perform worse (and I have a slight feeling that it will) for plain water, but in any event I'll find out either way. |
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06-29-2004, 04:32 AM | #229 | |
Cooling Savant
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06-29-2004, 09:20 AM | #230 |
Big PlayerMaking Big Money
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I'll be back at home around midnight; will check on a tracking number then Cathar.
I thought hot water froze faster than cold water because it was evaporating away (and decreasing the volume of liquid water that is involved)? Pretty sure I recall something like that from a P Chem discussion...
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06-29-2004, 10:32 AM | #231 |
Cooling Savant
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The idea of hot water freezing faster, while true, is retarded. Put less water in. Then it will freeze even faster and you'll get the same amount of ice!
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06-29-2004, 10:50 AM | #232 |
Cooling Savant
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06-29-2004, 10:56 AM | #233 | |
Cooling Savant
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06-29-2004, 11:32 AM | #234 |
Big PlayerMaking Big Money
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interesting. The more you know, right? It's been a long time but I seem to recall doing the math on an open system and evaporation could explain it. It's biased though because we were given the numbers to work with rather than actually doing said experiments. Guess the P Chem prof was just seeing if anyone would actually go out and look for more research on the topic...
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06-29-2004, 06:24 PM | #235 |
Thermophile
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Hmmm, can't remember where I read it now. The explanation that I read for hot water freezing faster had to do with the crystalline nature in which water molecules align themselves.
Apparantly water is a very highly structured liquid if left to sit. When it's cool, (and sitting still) it apparantly conducts heat much more readily through its structure. When the water starts off hot, the exited molecules break down the crystalline structure of the water, which takes a long time to re-establish. So basically what is meant to happen is that the initially cool water freezes throughout, meaning that the entire mass of the water has to be brought to the freezing point. In the initially hot-water scenario, the outer edges freeze more quickly. Seemed a little wishy-washy to me though. I remember playing with my TEC water-chiller, attempting to freeze up a few litres of water in a bucket. The water would keep on flowing down to around -2.5C or so, until the water froze up solid inside the TEC chiller, forcing the flow to stop. I would then see some little ice crystals exit from the loop outlet into the reservoir just as the flow was stopping, and then the water turned into what can be best described as a set of icy sheet layers, of a highly crystalline nature. The whole reservoir of water froze up into this sloughy set of ice sheets, and somewhat more curiously, when this process happened, the water temperature jumped up to -0.1C almost instantly. It was like the kinetic motion of the liquid was enough to stave off the phase-change into solid form for a while, until when the motion was removed by the flow being blocked, then that catalysed the near total phase-change of all the water in the bucket into icy sheets. Now when I say "sheets", these are not layered horizontally. They were more like at a 45 degree isometric angle kinda deal. Yeah, I know, kids playing with water, but it was fascinating to watch the phase-change into a solid take place, and then to measure the temperature jump, and the form of the frozen water. |
06-29-2004, 08:41 PM | #236 | |
Cooling Neophyte
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The results from this less advanced test suggest water has to be very warm ~140-212 deg F (60-100 deg C) to realize any appreciable decrease in freezing time compared to cold tap water. |
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06-29-2004, 09:07 PM | #237 |
Cooling Neophyte
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Saskatoon,Sask.Canada
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man,what a tease this is.i live in saskatoon,and know somewhere in this great little city,lurks not only phaestus,but soon the new cascade
fyi,the igloos are melting pretty quick today |
06-30-2004, 01:24 AM | #238 |
Big PlayerMaking Big Money
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KnightElite lives here too. We should get together for some beers + LAN action sometime. I have a finished basement and plenty of room (and mediocre gaming skills)
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06-30-2004, 10:27 PM | #239 | |
Cooling Neophyte
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26"chenming case with an external watercooling box. nice to know this type of action going on here |
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07-02-2004, 01:35 AM | #240 | |
Cooling Savant
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Have deleted mine. |
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07-05-2004, 10:08 AM | #241 |
Cooling Neophyte
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Plainville, CT
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Cathar, when do you plan on releasing your block? i am going all out this summer on a brand new rig, and am only getting the best, and your block is #1
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07-05-2004, 05:36 PM | #242 | ||
Thermophile
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07-05-2004, 06:06 PM | #243 | |
Cooling Savant
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Anyway what is your target price, or are you close enogh to know yet????
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07-06-2004, 10:46 AM | #244 | |
Cooling Savant
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Yeah, I'm putting together a rig next summer. I'm holding out for the Athlon dual-core () and I plan on using your latest and greatest. Will it be out by then? I must admit though, I haven't rulled out the TDX w/ the #5 nozzle. Good luck to you Cather! DrCR __________ 1977 Bonneville Heatercore IWAKI MD-20RZT @ 60Hz |
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07-06-2004, 08:29 PM | #245 |
Thermophile
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Got my blocks back today, just sitting on our front porch for who know's how long? Yay! Thanks Phaestus. I've been missing them.
Opened up and inspected the blocks. The "Storm" is a jetted block as I've hinted about this before. A significant number of the jets were clogged quite heavily with balls of lint, and especially over the central die area. The baseplate even had lint trapped in various places, which says to me that some of the jets were so clogged that there wasn't even enough flow to push the lint out of the way as there's plenty of room for it to escape once it reaches the base-plate. The Cascade SS faired a lot better, with just a few outer (slower-speed) jets clogged mildly. The Cascade SS was tested second, so I have a feeling that the Storm already did the job of mostly filtering the test system. I don't believe that the SS's performance would've been impacted to any significant degree given what I saw. I'll still run the "goop" tests, but right now I'm thinking that it was a filtering issue that explains the differences between Phaestus's and my own internal testing. Sadly this is something that all these modern higher performance finely-structured blocks do suffer from. If the loop is open to the air for long enough, or perhaps refilled using dirty containers that introduce lint into the system, then this can be an issue. I'm sure what with Phaestus installing all manner of blocks all the time, that over time enough lint would've entered the system, whether from his own actions, or from lint/crap already present inside the previous tests blocks that were installed. |
07-07-2004, 12:01 AM | #246 |
Cooling Savant
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Stew
Do you use an Inline Filter? What do you use or what are the preferred types? Thank you |
07-07-2004, 12:42 AM | #247 | |
Thermophile
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My inline-filter is a "barrel and basket" micro-irrigation filter which I picked up for US$3 from a local hardware store. It's the one on the right in the below picture: It is very low flow restriction, offering less resistance than one of my heater-cores. It has a removable "basket" inside that has literally thousands and thousands of ~0.1mm diameter pin-holes in it. It's big and ugly, but it's free flowing and dirt cheap. There'd probably be a good market for something that was 1/3rd the size for computer cooling use with micro-structured/jetted blocks. My other closed-loop Cascade-based system that I leave running all the time (my P4 work system) doesn't have any inline-filters installed and it's never had any problems because the water was pre-filtered when I added it. I pull it apart every 3 months or so just to check, and it's always been fine. |
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07-07-2004, 05:51 AM | #248 |
Cooling Neophyte
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Location: Plainville, CT
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what do you use to filter the water?? one of those regular Purina water filters you put on your sink or something?
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07-07-2004, 06:27 AM | #249 | |
Thermophile
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07-09-2004, 03:36 PM | #250 |
Cooling Neophyte
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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What about the top plate?
I remember an article showing that copper + anodized aluminum still causes corrosion when the anodizing wears off ... Also, when these blocks go into retail, any idea what they will cost? |
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