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Hardware and Case Mod's You Paint it, Cut it, Solder it, bend it, light it up, make it glow or anything like that, here is your forum.

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Unread 10-07-2004, 01:07 PM   #1
Seyeklopz
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Default New Radiator Design. Suggestions?

I'm designing a radiator specifically for pc watercooling. The main purpose is to fit a pair of single rads, or a dual radiator in the same dimensions as a pair of 80mm case fans. I intend to fit the rad and fan inside the atx case at the back beside the I/O. Most radiators have the barbs sticking out the sides, but my design will run the barbs through opposing corners of the fan. I'll just trim two corners of the fan to fit.

The corner pipes are triangular until they clear the fan. They then adapt to round barbs for 1/2" ID tubing. The trianglular pipe has the same cross-sectional area as a 1/2" round tube.

I'm still working out the design, and am very interested in any suggestions, comments, or questions.
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Unread 10-07-2004, 03:27 PM   #2
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Sound like an interesting idea, 1st thing that comes to mind is that if the rad has to be 160x80mm then 2 80mm fans would be too big as you have to allow for the tanks on the end of the rad. You would need a special shape shroud that would reduce down at the ends.

Have you got any ideas on how you are attualy going to make the rad? Cut down hcore?

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Unread 10-07-2004, 05:36 PM   #3
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The tank will be built into the radiator body, basically just a pipe connecting all the smaller pipes. I'm planning on making the rad from copper pipes and fins. Fins punched and slid over small pipes and soldered.



Looks like a tough job, but if I decide to make more than one, I could streamline the production.

The blue circle shows where the top of the tube attaches.

Last edited by Seyeklopz; 10-07-2004 at 09:11 PM.
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Unread 10-07-2004, 05:42 PM   #4
BillA
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the form factor must be your ONLY concern
gonna be really low performance
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Unread 10-07-2004, 06:28 PM   #5
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Do a staggered pipe design, Find the thinnest walled pipe you can. Under 1/32 wall is going to be fun to play with. Then think about turbulators of some kind - What ever you can think up. Think about a good fin/plate spacing as well as their thickness.
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Unread 10-07-2004, 09:16 PM   #6
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I added the staggered pipes and did a more realistic mockup, updated post.
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Unread 10-08-2004, 12:08 AM   #7
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Ummm, O.K.

Whats the waterflow going to be?

This is a serpintine radiator, or is it going to be a tanked thin tube multipass unit like a heatercore.

Serpintine ASCII example, the = are the barbs.

input
=----------\
/-----------/
\-----------\
/-----------/
\----------= output

Parallel ASCII example

|#|==========|#|= input
|#|==========|#|
|#|==========|--| flow seperator
|#|==========|#|
|#|==========|#|= output

the |#| is the tank. A multipass radiator uses multiple think tubes to increase the surface area, while retaing the flow rate.

Yor picture looks like it's tanked, but I don't understand how you are going to force the flow thru the tubes.

Also, have you ever soldered a heatercore or radiator before? I once cut a heatercore down so a 120MM find would fit it perfectly (in fact I still use it) , as I was dealing with a very tight fit. soldering that thing back together was a [expletive deleted].

Paul.
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Unread 10-08-2004, 09:34 AM   #8
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The water flows from one tank to the other through all the small pipes. Not multipass or serpentine. The tanks are tapered to maintain pressure to all the pipes.

I wish there was an easy way to solder the fins/tank. Only one-shot way I can think of is to tightly fit it and plate it with something. Maybe coat all the surfaces with something that won't let copper plating attach, leaving the joint areas uncovered, so the copper will build in the joints. Then dissolve the coating off.

I just read about electroless copper plating. It may be possible to make some sort of mould which could be copper plated, then dissolve or melt the mould out. You'd be left with a nice radiator with very thin walls.
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Unread 10-08-2004, 09:39 AM   #9
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not so difficult, more a question of good fit up - then technique
any rad shop can solder it for you

your fin structure is primitive, and ratio of coolant to wetted area terrible
that is why I said "really low performance"

suggest you cut down a better rad to get the form factor you want
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Unread 10-08-2004, 09:58 AM   #10
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There's about 0.85 square feet of air surface area, and about 0.15 of water surface area. Not including tanks. I wonder how this compares to other rads. It sounds pretty low to me. Maybe I could get my hands on some tiny copper tubing and zig-zag it, soldering them side by side, no fins. Would look like Mr. Noodles/Ramen before it's cooked. LOL
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Unread 10-08-2004, 11:21 AM   #11
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Il second Bills motion of cutting down an old rad (heatercore?) you can still use the triangular tubes etc. it just makes it alot easyer to make and better performing to boot .

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Unread 10-09-2004, 08:32 PM   #12
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Cutting down rads sounds pretty good, but i want to try to build at least one.

What do you think of this pipe arrangement? Probably add another layer. Could devise some sort of fins to fit in the holes. Very easy assembly. I wonder if there are "textured" pipes available with fins, spikes, or dimples to increase surface area.


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Unread 10-11-2004, 11:24 PM   #13
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I'd like to work with this, but it's kind of big, and i doubt I could get my hands on some..



http://www.wlv.com/products/products...d/HFTrufin.htm


I could mesh the fins together to fit the pipes more closely, and do a staggered set. I actually have big plans for this stuff, as in a whole case mod... just need to buy some.
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Unread 10-12-2004, 10:38 AM   #14
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wrong shape, pressure pipe, inefficient
high tech-bling though
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Unread 10-12-2004, 03:26 PM   #15
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Make a decent set of turbulators though.
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Unread 10-12-2004, 03:45 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlaterSpeed
Il second Bills motion of cutting down an old rad (heatercore?) you can still use the triangular tubes etc. it just makes it alot easyer to make and better performing to boot .

slater..
I'll third that.

Don't skip this chopping action: you'll learn a whole lot.

The main advantage is that with a minimal volume of water, you have a huge surface area, which is what Bill is trying to get across.

The other advantage is in the relatively simple construction of the core: corrugated sheets of metal, slapped together and soldered at the ends (essentially). The sheet metal is only as thin as it needs to be.
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Unread 10-14-2004, 02:16 AM   #17
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OK, I've canned this idea.

On to greener pastures.. I decided to use this copper heatercore from a 1960 Mercury Comet. I got a C-Systems CSP 750 Mark II *BLACK* 12v DC Pump and a Swiftech MCW6002-A AMD K7 waterblock. I'll connect the pump to the outlet of my heatercore, and the reservoir will attach to the pump (both directly with no hoses). Then run 1/2" ID to the cpu block and then to the rad.

My case is organized a little strangely with my optical drives at the bottom(thanks to the case design), fanbus, hard drives in the middle, and LCD at the top. So my pump, rad, and res will be at the top pretty well in-line with my cpu. For safety's sake, I'll have a leak tray under all the connections which drains to a hidden reservoir.

I got a Vantec ION 2 350W power supply to help reduce noise. So I'll have a single 120mm fan on heatercore, the 120mm thermally controlled fan in the power supply, and the radeon9800pro fan.

Scary part will be cutting the two 120mm blow holes in the top of my Lili pc6077B

Tubing is insanly expensive everywhere I checked until I found it at $0.51 per foot here.

I'm still waiting to see if they will sell it to a lowly consumer.

Last edited by Seyeklopz; 10-14-2004 at 02:25 AM.
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Unread 10-14-2004, 04:07 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seyeklopz
OK, I've canned this idea.
Not for fitting fins on pipes I hope. The trick is to set them up - easy fit - with spacers, then expand the pipe by drawing something too big through it. This way the fins dig into the pipe and you get good conduction. Unfussy assembly too. Solder helps there but isn't necessary.
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Unread 10-14-2004, 08:18 AM   #19
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that is of course a brass heater core, as are they all of that construction
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Unread 10-14-2004, 11:56 AM   #20
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He was
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seyeklopz
planning on making the rad from copper pipes and fins. Fins punched and slid over small pipes and soldered.
Why only brass?
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Unread 10-14-2004, 11:58 AM   #21
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$/performance
think 'good enough'
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Unread 10-14-2004, 01:01 PM   #22
Seyeklopz
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Crappy mock-up alert ^_^

How does this look?

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Unread 10-14-2004, 01:17 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seyeklopz
How does this look?
*Invents watercooling buzzword* Discreet!
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